I Absolutely HATE Windows 10

[Motor_Mouth]

OK, the post above is really long but I just want to ask you guys what it is that you like about W10 and, most importantly, WHY. What is it that I am not seeing here? e.g. Why is the W10 Start Menu better than the W8 Start Screen? Please be specific, as I have tried to be. I just want to understand why Microsoft would be doing all of this because, from what I've experienced myself, it all seems to be getting worse and worse, both for touch and for desktop use.

 

[Yazen]

+1520
Everything the OP said. Ironically, every qualm with Windows 10 is what the average consumer / biased reviewer demanded...

Tablets are tablets. Microsoft had it right with Windows RT.

 

[Yazen]

OK, the post above is really long but I just want to ask you guys what it is that you like about W10 and, most importantly, WHY. What is it that I am not seeing here? e.g. Why is the W10 Start Menu better than the W8 Start Screen? Please be specific, as I have tried to be. I just want to understand why Microsoft would be doing all of this because, from what I've experienced myself, it all seems to be getting worse and worse, both for touch and for desktop use.

Imagine WinRT replacements for every desktop app (Win32)...
Imagine having the Xbox Music app as the default music player loooooool

Apps are nice for phones and tablets, however desktops require more sophisticated software.

 

[hotphil]

There's very little I need desktop applications for these days.

 

[Yazen]

There's very little I need desktop applications for these days.

So assuming you purchased a relatively expensive desktop, you would prefer to use apps? XD

I can understand if you own a tablet, but c'mon... People who buy desktops in 2015 are power users!

Tbh the Zune Desktop player from 2009 works much better than the latest version of Xbox Music... I'm sure there are others who will vouch for me

 

[hotphil]

Yep... I have nearly all the tools to manage multiple estates servers, workstations etc in browsers or apps. I can do most productivity stuff, analysis etc in Office Preview (other than some complex stuff here and there). There's some stuff I still reach for desktop programs though (SSMS, PowerShell) just out of habit really.
The modern apps look better. And I like to dogfood them.​

 

[hotphil]

But yes, XBM isn't a good example of how to do an app. Anything but. It makes me sadder than when Zayn left.

 

[ntice_521]

Just a general comment about Win10...IMHO it's the roughest beta that Microsoft has ever widely released. And given the aggressive release schedule, the "final" version is going to be rough too. Well, I hope not but fear it will be so.

 

[Jazmac]

"Why have a forum at all, then? What's the good of it if we aren't all free to share our experiences, positive or negative? You need to grow up."
I would discuss with you in grown up terms but like Windows 10, it would be over your head like the bridge trolls typically live under. You don't even get the purpose of "the forum". The question is NOT about why have a forum at all but your inane comments about an OS still under development and how you think any of the comments you've made is in any way productive. All you've done is complain like a brat in soiled diapers. This is OS as I mentioned before YOU DON'T even have to use if it is so distasteful. Its is going to do what it does so either get with the program or return to your spot under your bridge and stay there.

 

[Slovenix]

I think it's good, majority of people I know / read on the internet prefer the desktop on W7. Desktop is a desktop for me. I like running "modern" apps on it, but it's a no way to replace desktop programs and their look. Especially people just don't like the tiles and say they look fugly (I'm almost the only one who uses W8.1 apps on my PC), yet to be honest it got really annoying after I started using my PC for work. I rather pin modern apps to the desktop and enjoy their more desktop look now.

 

[Protocol Rahul]

I do agree with the tablet mode thing. Considering RTM date is nearing, I don't know when they will trim the touch features much. I have touch enabled laptop, I liked swiping from right to open charms and go to start screen, now I have to tap the start icon in the left corner of the taskbar(considering I am using it on 15.1'' screen.+ FHD screen makes it more small). Touch Keyboards sucks, opens on its own, sometimes delayed start (this would be improved in the future builds I guess.). I liked the fast app switcher in win 8 , just swiping from left. That's it. Start screen is now small, live tiles don't usually don't work as they did in 8.1(not talking about bugs or the feature). Since the build 9926 I hardly have used the touch screen, which is really sad. I guess I'll have to wait and see.

 

[tropolite]

Hey M_M
I do understand where you are coming from and agree with much of what you are on about. eg Charms. Just got used to those little suckers and they go change the concept on us again. These aren't coming back as MS supposedly has done their homework to make this "Windows 10" the same or similar across all types of devices (that's possibly why some started talking about phones).

I've been using Windows 10 since it became available in its infancy, and to Microsoft's credit they have been trying different things to see what 'works best' and mostly to get feedback on specific areas from users like you and me. When they do Technical Previews they can throw anything into the mix to see if it works. I'm testing Win10 on a Toshiba Encore 8" tablet and in its current build (TP 10074), there are a number of gripes about how it's NOT performing. So, my direct link to Microsoft (and yours) is to provide constructive feedback through the Insider Hub and if you have time make sure you detail all the issues and make suggestions. I know Microsoft are taking the Technical Preview feedback seriously.

It is frustrating at times but man, it's come along way

 

[DavidinCT]

That would be me. I'm 56 and took to the first preview build of Win8 like a duck to water. It was brilliant from the very first session, addressing all the things that bugged me in Vista and Win7. OK, I'll admit the Start button was still there at the time but it went back in with the very first Win8 update, after just a few months. Since that time, everything else they have done to try and placate moronic users has made it progressively worse. 8.1 is measurably more frustrating and annoying than 8.0, with title bars and taskbars popping up when you are trying to access the Charms Bar or an ellipsis menu. It's annoying as hell..

I'm a long term Microsoft user and supporter, I have been using Windows from version 3.1 and Windows Mobile/HPC/PocketPC devices from 1.0. The change was dramatic, not a minor change. Although I like the live tiles that was taken from Windows Phone, I found the navigation and interface not as easy to use. I don't mind change when it comes to PCs, if some feature comes along that makes my life easier, I will welcome it. I was running 8 from the preview and fully tried for a LONG time to replace WIndows 7, no matter what, it could not do that for me.

AGAIN, I showed it to about 40 people, some older, some younger, all computer users, not all techy but, could do what they needed to do and address minor problems in Windows. Most of them didn't like it, a few did but, they were hard core iPad users (seemed to be the trend). They found it very difficult to get around.

I personally still find it to be a mess. Split up between a desktop to a start screen, It seems like someone at Microsoft had a wet dream to make Windows like an iPad and this is what they came up with. Then they needed to become compatible with WINDOWS apps (the staple of a Windows based computer) and they just completely screwed it up.

Just because you like it and enjoy it (I bet a past iPad/iOS user) not every one does.

Why? Windows 8 on the desktop is EXACTLY the same as Windows 7. You click with your left button, your right button or your middle button and you scroll with the scroll wheel and you get EXACTLY the same result you would in XP, Vista or W7. Ditto for keyboard use.

Actually, that's not completely fair because there are a lot of things that are MUCH BETTER in W8 than they were in previous builds. e.g. More keyboard shortcuts, like WIN+X, better Task Manager and far deeper integration of search. But if you want to keep using W8 like you do W7, you can because everything that was in W7 is still there in W8, in exactly the same place. Once they put the Start Button back, everything was easy again.

But the thing is, it is far better with keyboard and mouse than it is with touch, yet everyone seems to assume it is the other way around. You can't point to one thing that is harder on the W8 desktop than it was on XP, Vista or W7. Everything is the same or easier. Go on, try and find one thing that was easier on W7. You can't because there isn't anything.

I'm sorry, I feel that you are wrong here but, this my opinion. This is my Major reasons for HATING Windows 8/8.1

1. 2 task bars, SO if I run a native Windows 8 app, they show up on the left side of the screen, If I run a native Windows (7-) app, it shows up the desktop task bar. Who's freaking IDEA was this ? So as a power user, I want to see what apps are running, I need to go to 2 places to see this ? STILL not addressed in 8.1 and a MAJOR flaw.
2 Manually finding program that is NOT on the start screen is Not user friendly at all, You have a screen of text and small ICONS to try to find a single app, Once you have 40-50 programs installed, this is a major headache and takes a LOT longer than in Windows 95 to Windows 7 (and yes, I setup a VM with Windows 95, and tested this, it STILL is a lot quicker manually find a program in Win95, than in Windows 8.1). Search works but, I don't want to type in every app I want to run, it defeats the point of using a mouse.
3. Moving the mouse to one side of the screen to find running apps and the "Charms bar" gives basic shortcuts. No this is not quicker, the start menu always showed all apps, and to get to all settings was always 2 clicks, not any faster in Windows 8 and by far not as user friendly.

So performance is a little better on the same hardware than Windows 7 and there are some perks minor on 8.1 but, the negative for a power user like myself out weights the good of it.

And it's not just me, far from it, Look at the global sales of Windows 8, the main reason why the sales are ok, is because people get it on new PCs and don't have a choice, IF every company put a first boot option Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, I don't thinks sales would even be close to what they are now. I have seen 100's of computers, laptops by techs, with licensees for Windows 8/8.1 on the bottom of them, running Windows 7... There is a very VALID reason for this.

What is the Microsoft OS run on MOST computers in the world right now? STILL Windows 7 and followed by XP(still very close). That really has to tell you something.

At least Windows 10 fixes a lot of these FLAWS with 8.1 in fact from my list above of MAIN issues that I have had with it, every one has been addressed in the Windows 10 preview.

Anyway about it, Windows 10 is on the right path to make WIndows 7 users happy and WIndows 8.1 users happy. So, love or hate one of the other, it is starting to appear to be a win, win for all (accept for Windows Media Center users)

 

[Yazen]

Anyway about it, Windows 10 is on the right path to make WIndows 7 users happy and WIndows 8.1 users happy. So, love or hate one of the other, it is starting to appear to be a win, win for all (accept for Windows Media Center users)

I'll be happy if PlayReady 3.0 is truly software independent, and I think most users will be too. They hadn't updated WMC in years, and their new technology is transparent to us users. Basically instead of relying on WMC solely to play recorded OTA we would be able to use Kodi/XBMC, Plex, etc.

PlayReady 2.0 will still be around for legacy users, who are probably tied to W7 anyways. Didn't want to pay money to upgrade, and pay even more just for the same program I had been using! That's ridiculous :/

 

[Motor_Mouth]

I was running 8 from the preview and fully tried for a LONG time to replace WIndows 7, no matter what, it could not do that for me.

Why not? For me, one of the first things that struck me was how little it had changed from Win7, once you got past the new way of getting to your applications. The Start Menu in Vista, carried over virtually unchanged to W7, was so bad that I had all but stopped using it. At first I had just put 30-odd shortcuts onto my desktop but eventually I spent 100+ hours making a Rainmeter launcher from scratch. Using that meant that once I got to the desktop, W8 was 99% the same as W7. But I quickly discovered that the Start Screen had far more potential than my Rainmeter theme and after a month or so I had customised it to the point that I pretty much stopped using Rainmeter.

They found it very difficult to get around.

How long did they spend with it? With the Start button still in place, I'd imagine it would take maybe 10 minutes to work it all out, although at that point the All Apps button wasn't there, either. I created this simple desktop wallpaper that would allow anyone to get into W8 easily -



That's all anyone would have required, about 5 minutes worth of information to be up and running.

Then they needed to become compatible with WINDOWS apps (the staple of a Windows based computer) and they just completely screwed it up.

How did they screw it up? It was 100% compatible with everything that ran on W7 from the very earliest preview. All the other stuff was new stuff they added on top of everything that was there in W7. It was so easy to ignore that it's not funny, yet everyone gets caught up on it as though someone had a gun to your head, forcing you to deal with it.

Just because you like it and enjoy it (I bet a past iPad/iOS user) not every one does.

Enjoy? How is that even relevant? I don't own a Windows PC for fun, I own it to get work done. Enjoyment is not a factor, being able to get my work done with the least amount of hassle is all I care about. Ideally, the OS should disappear from my perception completely when I am doing my work until I specifically need to interact with it.

This is my Major reasons for HATING Windows 8/8.1

1. 2 task bars, SO if I run a native Windows 8 app, they show up on the left side of the screen, If I run a native Windows (7-) app, it shows up the desktop task bar. Who's freaking IDEA was this ? So as a power user, I want to see what apps are running, I need to go to 2 places to see this ? STILL not addressed in 8.1 and a MAJOR flaw.

You're not much of a power user if you don't use ALT+Tab to see what's running. Do that and both your desktop and metro apps show up together. And it is absolutely addressed in 8.1 as apps now also appear on the Taskbar (which I find completely superfluous) and the Taskbar pops up in the Metro UI (which drives me nuts).

2 Manually finding program that is NOT on the start screen is Not user friendly at all, You have a screen of text and small ICONS to try to find a single app, Once you have 40-50 programs installed, this is a major headache and takes a LOT longer than in Windows 95 to Windows 7 (and yes, I setup a VM with Windows 95, and tested this, it STILL is a lot quicker manually find a program in Win95

I agree that the Start Menu was much better in W95, it was Vista where it went to hell in a hand-basket. Honestly, I assumed that was the main thing everyone hated about Vista, it was certainly the thing I hated the most, but they carried it over almost unchanged into W7 and everyone seemed to love it. Maybe your brain isn't wired to look for things in alphabetical order but mine is. I can find something in the All Apps menu faster than I'd find it in a search result. Best of all, I'm not restricted to a tiny screen while I look. But the real advantage is that, because I have so much space to work with, I can pin absolutely everything I might ever want to use to my Start Screen and put it in an order that makes perfect sense to me. e.g. I have Control Panel pinned, as well as a bunch of things from it, like display settings, so I don't even have to go and find those things (although they are also much easier to get at in W8). I doubt I have had to go to the All Apps screen on my laptop in the last 6 months.

3. Moving the mouse to one side of the screen to find running apps and the "Charms bar" gives basic shortcuts. No this is not quicker, the start menu always showed all apps, and to get to all settings was always 2 clicks, not any faster in Windows 8 and by far not as user friendly.

That is just completely wrong. I'll give you the perfect example - how many clicks to get to Disk Management in W7? In W8, you select WIN+X, then click on "Disk Management". Or you pin it to the Start Screen and it is two clicks away.

So performance is a little better on the same hardware than Windows 7 and there are some perks minor on 8.1 but, the negative for a power user like myself out weights the good of it.

What sort of power user would that be, one who only knows one way of doing things and who spent zero time working out how to get the best from his new OS? That doesn't sound like any kind of power user to me.

What is the Microsoft OS run on MOST computers in the world right now? STILL Windows 7 and followed by XP(still very close). That really has to tell you something.

Yes, it tells me that since they moved over to the NT kernel, Windows has been so damned good that no-one sees any reason to update until you force them to. It tells me that the fear of change is so strong in normal people that they are literally afraid to try anything new until the majority tell them it's OK to. i.e. It tells me a lot about the NT kernel and also about people, not much about Windows 8.

At least Windows 10 fixes a lot of these FLAWS with 8.1 in fact from my list above of MAIN issues that I have had with it, every one has been addressed in the Windows 10 preview.

No, it hasn't. If anything, those things have gotten worse. e.g. All Apps is still presented in EXACTLY the same order it is in Win8, except now you can only see a tiny amount of it at one time. It's like they have taken what you didn't like about W8 and added to it what I hate about W7 to come up with something that is worse for everyone. It simply isn't possible for you to sincerely believe that All Apps is better in W10 because the thing you just said you hate about it - small icons - are even smaller in W10. This just proves to me that you are not able to assess any of it objectively.

Anyway about it, Windows 10 is on the right path to make WIndows 7 users happy and WIndows 8.1 users happy. So, love or hate one of the other, it is starting to appear to be a win, win for all (accept for Windows Media Center users)

How can you possibly say that? I'm a reasonably happy Win8.1 user and I can assure you 100% that W10 is NOT going to make me happy in any way whatsoever.

 

[Motor_Mouth]

EDIT: I don't want to live in your future. Have you even tried Rainmeter?

Yes, I spent 100+ hours making my own theme/skin for it. It was the only thing that made W7 bearable for me. Here it is running on W8.0 -



Top-left are app and folder launchers, top-right is time/date, bottom-right are storage-related things and bottom-left is power, performance stuff and browser shortcuts. But the Start Screen has pretty much made it redundant. I haven't bothered installing it on my tablet and probably won't on my next laptop, either.

Besides potential performance improvements, Windows 10 brings nothing to enhance the desktop experience.

I agree completely. Like W7, W10 is being driven by sales and marketing, not by any desire to make Windows better.

BTW, when did Windows have detachable toolbars and how did they make file transfers easier?

 

[Yazen]

Yes, I spent 100+ hours making my own theme/skin for it. It was the only thing that made W7 bearable for me. Here it is running on W8.0 -

View attachment 104916

Top-left are app and folder launchers, top-right is time/date, bottom-right are storage-related things and bottom-left is power, performance stuff and browser shortcuts. But the Start Screen has pretty much made it redundant. I haven't bothered installing it on my tablet and probably won't on my next laptop, either.


I agree completely. Like W7, W10 is being driven by sales and marketing, not by any desire to make Windows better.

BTW, when did Windows have detachable toolbars and how did they make file transfers easier?

Nice skin. I made a pretty big oversight earlier, as the new start menu in Win10 was what I was hoping Windows 8.1 was going to have (ended up being just a button to the start screen). Can glance at tiles while working, instead of breaking workflow altogether.

Prior to Vista, Windows XP and earlier could detach taskbar toolbars and attach them to desktop corners. I used to have "My Computer" docked on the LHS that way I could drag finished projects from my desktop to their respected network drives.
What was really cool was that items in the toolbar updated automagically, whereas 3rd party alternatives require users to manually add and update shortcuts.

With toolbars:

• Drag folder into toolbar drive

Without toolbars:

• Navigate to start menu
• Navigate to computer
• Drag folder into respective drive

Windows 7 actually had some huge leaps in networking/file/system performance, and optimized a lot of services. Really should have been a Vista Service Pack but its like you said lol

I get that the average person prefers "apps" vs "applications", but I'm kind of disappointed with it all. On a desktop I want desktop applications with a desktop first interface (with extended, powerful features). On a tablet I want a full blown tablet interface... I don't mind overlap, but it just seems backwards to me to compromise when what they already have isn't broken

 

[Motor_Mouth]

I made a pretty big oversight earlier, as the new start menu in Win10 was what I was hoping Windows 8.1 was going to have (ended up being just a button to the start screen). Can glance at tiles while working, instead of breaking workflow altogether.

I don't see the difference, I'm afraid. With W8 - press the Windows key, see info, press the Windows key again. With W10 - press the Windows key, see info, click outside menu. It's the same number of actions in each case and, crucially, in each case you cannot work on any of your open apps/applications while the Menu has focus. ALT+Tab would probably be a better workflow option or a split-screen.

Prior to Vista, Windows XP and earlier could detach taskbar toolbars and attach them to desktop corners. I used to have "My Computer" docked on the LHS that way I could drag finished projects from my desktop to their respected network drives.

I'm not sure I understand. What is a "taskbar toolbar"? What you're describing sounds to me like desktop shortcuts to network drives, which is something we've always had.

 

[Yazen]

I don't see the difference, I'm afraid. With W8 - press the Windows key, see info, press the Windows key again. With W10 - press the Windows key, see info, click outside menu. It's the same number of actions in each case and, crucially, in each case you cannot work on any of your open apps/applications while the Menu has focus. ALT+Tab would probably be a better workflow option or a split-screen.

I'm not sure I understand. What is a "taskbar toolbar"? What you're describing sounds to me like desktop shortcuts to network drives, which is something we've always had.

A taskbar toolbar is a taskbar toolbar lol. If you right click your taskbar you should get a contextual menu. In Windows XP they can detach, and lock into corners of the screen.
Elements behave just like they would in the explorer. E.g if a DLNA device is detected it will automatically be placed in the toolbar.

Give it a go should you ever install XP Mode / VM

Edit: Alt-Tab is just another step really. On XP drag and drop, no shortcuts needed. Plug in flash drive, drag and drop xD. Get to work, network drives get mapped, just drag and drop.

It's really not that big of a deal, but it was a time saver for me (even if only a few seconds). It's kind of like removing the calendar from the time widget so you have to open the calendar app.

 

[Laura Knotek]

[WARN]Ladies and gentlemen, please keep discussion productive and on topic. Personal attacks, insults, taking threads off topic and other disruptive posting behaviors are not acceptable. If you do not like a post, please behave like an adult and move on, or if you feel it violates the forum rules, please report it. At no point should members be calling each other out in posts. Thanks.[/WARN]