Is Google mad?

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

I'd assume it's because they gave ms a may 22 deadline to comply. I can't see Google being scared, what leverage does MS have to force Google to do anything? All of Google's services are web based and they have a titanic grip on smartphone market share. MS can't leverage the PC against them because they're still under the constraints of the massive anti trust ruling that has tied their hands from trying that again for decades now.

Sent from my (fill in the blank) phone using (fill in the blank software)

Well if Google really want to stop MS, they should just set fire to the MS headquarters and kill all their employees, while also releasing a virus to all PCs that causes them to blow up. With no staff, no buildings, and all PC's blown up, how can MS recover? They would have absolutely nothing then.

 

[omniusovermind]

Well if Google really want to stop MS, they should just set fire to the MS headquarters and kill all their employees, while also releasing a virus to all PCs that causes them to blow up. With no staff, no buildings, and all PC's blown up, how can MS recover? They would have absolutely nothing then.

Okay?

 

[falconrap]

How do you figure? If Google decides to dig in their heels and deny the API, then what? Youtube for WP gets shut down, that's what. The public outcry will be weak because of the 3% WP marketshare, and all the news stories will have a field day sensationalizing how MS and Google had a "showdown" and MS lost.

Picking a fight you can't win because 1. Google is in the legal right and 2. They can simply shut off access to Youtube from their end if MS doesn't comply is hardly what I would call tactically sound. And definitely not clever either. It was a blunder. If MS gets to keep Youtube as it is right now in defiance of Google and without their permission, I'll eat my hat on Youtube (which you'll be able to see if that happens btw)

lol.

Are you not familiar with the fact that the DOJ has been probing and keeping an eye on Google for anti-competitive practices? And the EU is doing the same. MS, having actually been through this gauntlet before, knows the drill well. They set Google up quite well. If Google doesn't relent and allow API access, MS can go to the DOJ and EU and say "look what they are doing here" and Google will have a tough time explaining this one away. Especially since 1) MS wrote the app, so Google need not do any work, 2) giving MS the API access actually brings in more ad revenue for Google, and 3) Google denying access clearly shows they want to use their dominant mobile OS and search engine positions to keep competition squashed.

Basically, Google is screwed.

 

[omniusovermind]

Are you not familiar with the fact that the DOJ has been probing and keeping an eye on Google for anti-competitive practices? And the EU is doing the same. MS, having actually been through this gauntlet before, knows the drill well. They set Google up quite well. If Google doesn't relent and allow API access, MS can go to the DOJ and EU and say "look what they are doing here" and Google will have a tough time explaining this one away. Especially since 1) MS wrote the app, so Google need not do any work, 2) giving MS the API access actually brings in more ad revenue for Google, and 3) Google denying access clearly shows they want to use their dominant mobile OS and search engine positions to keep competition squashed.

Basically, Google is screwed.

I beg to differ. The T.O.S. are clear as day and legally binding. MS can't force the issue in court while they're in the middle of violating the T.O.S.

What needs to happen here for it to all be legal is for MS to comply with the T.O.S. first. And then the court can rightly order Google to allow them the API to do it legally.

On a side note I find it immensely amusing to see all of the caterwauling about Google's wrongdoing while cheering on MS violating a TOS. Even if Google were forced to release the API (after MS is the first to back down since they were the ones in violation after all, NOT Google), who has the last laugh? 75% marketshare? or.... 3?

I'm not sure, would that qualify under the definition of a pyrrhic victory? This would be about where I'd insert that sad trombone music clip

 

[falconrap]

I beg to differ. The T.O.S. are clear as day and legally binding. MS can't force the issue in court while they're in the middle of violating the T.O.S.

What needs to happen here for it to all be legal is for MS to comply with the T.O.S. first. And then the court can rightly order Google to allow them the API to do it legally.

On a side note I find it immensely amusing to see all of the caterwauling about Google's wrongdoing while cheering on MS violating a TOS. Even if Google were forced to release the API (after MS is the first to back down since they were the ones in violation after all, NOT Google), who has the last laugh? 75% marketshare? or.... 3?

I'm not sure, would that qualify under the definition of a pyrrhic victory? This would be about where I'd insert that sad trombone music clip

Why does MS have to offer a page for EU users to download any browser they want, when their are other "viable" OS's on the market and anyone can simply download them? It's simple, and you clearly lack an understanding of competition laws and regulations. Any company holding a dominant position in an industry can't go out f their way to force lock-in on their products. Period. This is THE reason why MS got hit in the US and EU and why they had to change and do things like the browser download page and..da da DA!!!!...OPEN THEIR OWN API's (I know...shock). I don't know how old you are, or your field of expertise, but MS used to also have undocumented API's (closed API's just like Google has for YouTube) and they were forced to release those to everyone due to their dominant OS position.

In other words, Google is in exactly the same spot MS was...MS knows this...they set the bait...sprung the trap...and now the fall out will commence. As I said, Google is screwed.

 

[tgp]

Well if Google really want to stop MS, they should just set fire to the MS headquarters and kill all their employees, while also releasing a virus to all PCs that causes them to blow up. With no staff, no buildings, and all PC's blown up, how can MS recover? They would have absolutely nothing then.

Hmmm, that seems a bit extreme.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

Hmmm, that seems a bit extreme.

It definitely is, but you can't deny that it would get the job done. LOL.

 

[omniusovermind]

Why does MS have to offer a page for EU users to download any browser they want, when their are other "viable" OS's on the market and anyone can simply download them? It's simple, and you clearly lack an understanding of competition laws and regulations. Any company holding a dominant position in an industry can't go out f their way to force lock-in on their products. Period. This is THE reason why MS got hit in the US and EU and why they had to change and do things like the browser download page and..da da DA!!!!...OPEN THEIR OWN API's (I know...shock). I don't know how old you are, or your field of expertise, but MS used to also have undocumented API's (closed API's just like Google has for YouTube) and they were forced to release those to everyone due to their dominant OS position.

In other words, Google is in exactly the same spot MS was...MS knows this...they set the bait...sprung the trap...and now the fall out will commence. As I said, Google is screwed.

Let me ask you something - were the competing browsers currently violating MS's TOS when MS was forced to release those? You're also comparing a browser baked into an OS itself with a web service that's already available to WP8. Youtube is not completely inaccessible on WP8 without this recent app, so I don't see your point.

 

[smoledman]

A cartoon I thought I should share

This is pretty much reality.

 

[falconrap]

Let me ask you something - were the competing browsers currently violating MS's TOS when MS was forced to release those? You're also comparing a browser baked into an OS itself with a web service that's already available to WP8. Youtube is not completely inaccessible on WP8 without this recent app, so I don't see your point.

I hate to tell you this, but a TOS means squat in court. It really does. And other browsers were completely accessible from Windows via download. You don't see my point because your trying to hard to believe Google is in the right and it's perfectly ok for them to do what they did. I'm telling you, legally, it is not. MS found out the hard way, and they setup Google to be in the same boat they were in.

 

[GCrane1982]

Microsoft has violated the TOS no question about it, however the issue that I see is that across iOS, Android, blackberry, WP7/8, Win8 and pretty much all other OS's in the market the are 10's of 1,000s of YouTube apps which are also violating the TOS. Where I see Google/Youtube getting into trouble is that they are singling out MSFT with C&D order even after MSFT has requested access to the API's which can and will be classed as anti-competitive if it ever reaches the court or alternatively all the other developers will get C&D orders however this isn't exactly going to keep their content provider happy.

 

[omniusovermind]

I hate to tell you this, but a TOS means squat in court. It really does. And other browsers were completely accessible from Windows via download. You don't see my point because your trying to hard to believe Google is in the right and it's perfectly ok for them to do what they did. I'm telling you, legally, it is not. MS found out the hard way, and they setup Google to be in the same boat they were in.

You appear to be in the tech law system, I'll just take your word for it if that's the case

 

[a5cent]

I hate to tell you this, but a TOS means squat in court. It really does.

For consumers that may be true (idk), but we are talking about TOS between two huge international companies. I have a hard time believing that TOS agreements between two such companies mean squat in court. Are you sure?

 

[realwarder]

Well I have filed an antitrust complaint with the justice department. Anyone can do this when they believe a company is breaking the law.

And when a company is clearly dominant in both mobile (78%+) and community video (Youtube - 95%+), the only way to experience a premium Youtube experience should not be on an Android phone. By not providing APIs and actively denying access to its services from a monopolistic position, Google is being anti-competitive. The Google web maps fiasco is another example of this behavior.

I suggest that others also complain to the government if you disagree with Google's actions and its potential impact on your Windows Phone experience.

 

[nessinhaw]

imo, Google is "mad" because MS kinda hurt their ego when they launched the Youtube app WITHOUT the ads!
then Google cries "omg you removed the ads, we gonna lose important revenue bla bla bla" and sends a C&D letter to MS lol
also they didn't like that MS enabled video downloads!

BUT there are LOTS of 3rd party apps that allow video downloads (and i guess doesen't play ads before videos) and Google never cared about them...well, obviously because small 3rd party devs aren't big and important enough to bother them...but MS is lol

i'm pretty sure the app won't be removed from store but MS will enable ads and remove video downloads...why they didn't do this from start? i guess it's pretty obvious lol
this way Google gets happy receiving their ad revenue and WP users gets happy with MS amazing Youtube app lol ... or at least i hope so .-. i guess we'll find out next wednesday, when the deadline for MS removing the app expires!

 

[falconrap]

For consumers that may be true (idk), but we are talking about TOS between two huge international companies. I have a hard time believing that TOS agreements between two such companies mean squat in court. Are you sure?

Contracts of any type can be annulled in court if they violate the law, including anti-competition laws. In other words, Google can right a TOS stating any other company using their services must give over their first born children, but the courts are going to annul them. The simple skinny is, if Google is working in a monopolistic fashion and preventing competition that should be reasonably allowed, the courts are going to ignore their TOS.

 

[WavingReds]

Google just needs a whambulance.

 

[rianash]

My 2 cents.

Google is not mad. It's simply protecting their business, as someone has stated here.

Now, I'm moving away from google services. I 'm trying the alternatives. They may improve as well (user base and experience) if we give our support. E.g. Vimeo (youtube alternative), Here or Bing maps (google maps alternative).

As the alternatives grow (windows phone ecosystem and its apps), google won't be able to easily alienate some of their users without loosing significantly.

Now, it's our task to support such growth (as android users have supported google ecosystem when it was initially combating iOS for user base).

Jeez, I'm feeling patriotic today, for Windows Phone. Cheers..