Just got my lumia 950 xl, love WP 10! Why is WP having a hard time?

[cyan1two]

You are very correct, we all love WP, unfortunately the company that brought us the best experience do not seem to know how good their products are. They started well but they allowed late start to the game and the distance between them and the other two front runner hinder them fro running at their own pace. MS should understand that by continually improving the W10M and not leaving/abandoning the sector would have increased their share of the market. They need to know that the game plan should not be for them to come to par with the leading competition within two or three year but over time things would have improved greatly. The other thing which makes their work much harder is the fact that, they always drop off when the going gets tougher. This always puts them in a very bad books with the consumers they disappoint who are not likely to come back when MS resumes their foray into Phone business.

 

[Mike Semblance]

950 XL here , on Continuum. Edge, Onedrive, Office 365, OneNote, Bank of America, Netflix, CCTV apps, ELM327, Teamviewer, Cricket unlimited over Nordvpn , Windows Central app. And Cortana is taking good care of me. She knows me well.

Groove is free with Bing points.

Windows phone isn't dead, and I'm saving up for Surface phone.
If it turns out we all move to MicrosoftAndroid, that's what I'll buy. I'll do whatever Dona Sarkar tells me to.

I have all the apps I need.

Getting the Win10 Trekstor watch next! woohoo!

 

[erotavlas]

First I think its a mistake for Microsoft to pull out of the mobile space. They are shooting themselves in the foot if they let mobile languish until its dies. Because eventually mobile will continue to take more and more market share away from desktop PC. While competitors Android and iOS continue to improve their smartphone and tablet OS offerings to the point where they will make a universal OS like Microsoft is doing now, and that will make universal Windows on PC irrelevant. Because everyone will already be familiar with the smartphone OS of iOS and Android and easy to jump ship to whatever PC competitor they will offer.

Second, biggest problem for me is I think Microsoft took way too long to develop Windows 10 universal platform. This is what Windows should have been back when Windows 8 was launched back when they had Nokia Lumia and the great Lumia 1020. While Windows 8 mobile was a fast and different OS it was just ugly and they forced developers to make ugly apps by imposing their metro style with minimalist interface. (and I'm not talking about the home screen with the innovative live tiles, I think those are amazing, I'm talking about everything else beyond that) If you remember the Windows 8 mobile settings screen, personally it was a disaster - no icons, no order to the list. It was just fugly and hard to find what you were looking for - oh and no search (I don't remember there being a search). Windows 10 mobile settings is a drastic improvement, but that is what it SHOULD have been at the beginning. Why they waited so long to make such minor UI improvements?. Its ridiculous how long it took them to get to the level of design for Windows 10 mobile.

And now that they created Universal Windows platform which is also a dramatic improvement for developers, they also are too late for apps because the ecosystem is dying hardware wise so it won't attract developers like it could have many years ago. Developers need to make money and they can't do that is there are not enough users.

New hardware isn't going to solve anything, not even a Surface Phone. I personally think Microsoft is just too late in the game and there is no turning back. Maybe there would be hope if they continued fighting, marketing, selling devices etc. But at the current rate they are investing in this platform, they are digging their grave.

 

[sd4f]

It really seems to me that MS just were never interested in trying to grow the platform in a typical fashion, they appear to have just thought all along that they'd release their products and everyone + dog would drop their iphones and androids en masse and take up MS' offerings.

I can't understand the point of the reboots, they pushed their existing users under a bus, in an attempt to go for the big market, and failed each time, and it looks like they're going to try yet again, only difference this time is that they've put so little effort in the platform, in the hope that all their existing users just go away.

Even the rumoured 'new category' mobile device. I honestly can't see it breaking through. The big problem MS has is that iphones and androids have displaced a lot of PC's in the consumer space, and additionally made inroads into commercial and enterprise spaces purely because of their ubiquity. So leveraging full windows into a mobile environment is kind of pointless, when a lot of features/apps are only available on phones and not the desktop, due to changing consumer habits. MS is back to square one with lack of apps and developer support, even with full windows.

I'm also curious to see how DeX goes on the SGS8. If it makes some inroads, it will be a great demonstration of how, in spite of MS being first to market, and what not, it's pointless if you haven't got the right ingredients to make a meaningful dent in the market. In this case, the third party support is critical.

 

[DaQuantumFro]

Okay you want the obvious thing is lack of apps; be it local apps or the one hit wonder ones. Then there is the situation with zombie apps or apps that take a LONG time to be updated. Then there is the hardware situation; WP had more success in the low end that never translated to higher end model sales. Last has been perception of the brand and sometimes the fans. There is as others said the whole Microsoft not pushing the platform as hard as it could; either adding features to appeal to enterprises or fast following Android in terms of features. Basically it is a lot of reasons with no big one.

 

[DaQuantumFro]

HoloLens they pump a lot more work in but Mixed reality is a jumbled mess in terms of norms and direction

 

[Mark Richey]

I do agree, using an old Nexus 5x now.....but.....it is not the phone I wanted and many of the reasons relate to Windows Phone and the 950. I am waiting to get an unlocked Sony Xperia....

1) Camera button!
2) Improved superior camera
3) Expandable memory

I am already loaded with MS apps on my Android. pleasantly surprised. And my LG Urbane does most of what my Band 2 did.

But I will always miss my live tiles, the old Windows Phone 7 Hubs were a superior navigation and I still find myself trying to swipe to other menus. I finally got Groove Music loaded, but need the MicroSD to free myself when WiFi is not available.

So to be honest, with new phones still coming out with the Snapdragon 820, what is outdated on the 950/950XL? And I have swapped out the battery when I needed extra juice. Many Android users would kill for that option.

 

[Drael646464]

That is complete BS from MS as any and everyone knows that in order to gather interest or garner it that there has to be something that peaks the consumer's interests. Had MS put more effort into the OS then all the constant marketshare talk would be null and void because there would be continued interest and as such the devs would've been updating and creating apps for the OS. There's no one in the history of business that will create for a non-existing consumer base. Who at MS actually have degrees in commonsense? WHO!!! All MS had to do was to make the latest update to the Windows10 Mobile OS a true creator's update by bringing more functionality to it and bring back gestures, tweaking the home screen tiles, bringing font style change system wide along with making the OS feel truly like "Windows 10" with it's fluidity and speed. That's all MS had to do and the interest would have started to grow.

Did either Google or Apple query market share when they started or did they build and build and improve and improve to get the market share to where it is now. So what's the %$#@ issue MS?

Yeah, apple did. They spent quite a number of years cutting costs, and minimising things, abandoning products while they waited for the next big thing, the ipod. Responding to a failure, by accepting it, re-trenching, pivoting, in market is a massive part of apples history.

I'm always surprised that people don't know that as common knowledge, but I guess I am old, lol.

 

[darrell reimer]

I LOVE my 950 XL! Camera is amazing; battery life is awesome; great screen; expandable memory; iris scanner; double tap to unlock AND lock! Absolutely no complaints. I don't feel the 'app gap'. I've got a Galaxy S5 sitting on the corner shelf that i keep up to date and compare with my phone. Even with Arrow launcher, it is nothing compared to the Windows 10 start screen. No dark theme. No live tiles; the launchers that try to copy live tiles are terrible. I have almost the same apps on my S5 as i do on my 950 XL. I don't need all the 'missing' windows phone apps. I just pin the mobile web site pages to my start screen, and they work just as well as an app. I pulled out my old iPhone 4 to compare screen size; my XL screen seems almost twice the size. Back in the old days, you had to have apps; the screens were so small. Now, my 950 XL is almost like a small tablet compared to them; i can use the mobile web sites for my transit, banking, mobility provider and all sorts of others; i don't need the apps.
The 'specialty' apps (for my grocery, pizza, and other local stuff) in the Google play store get terrible reviews; mostly 2 out of 5 stars. The adds in media paint a one-sided picture. I'm super happy where i am!

 

[monedetoune]

So to be honest, with new phones still coming out with the Snapdragon 820, what is outdated on the 950/950XL? And I have swapped out the battery when I needed extra juice. Many Android users would kill for that option.

smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

ios having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

windows mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.

 

[Drael646464]

With all due respect, I do believe that android/ios offer a better user experience hence this is why its adopted more readily than windows phone, not everyone wants to take a chance with an os that cannot support their needs (snapchat??). However you are right regarding advertising.

For this to be true, the average smartphone consumer would have had to try every smartphone OS. I don't really see major differences between smartphone OSs. bb10 had, and has better touch gestures, its a breeze to use. The hub as a centralised messaging platform, was pretty much perfect from the get go. Maps are still more fluid/better traffic predicition to this day. Least popular operating system ever.

As for apps, the iPhone sold like hotcakes before it even had an appstore. Amazon tablets sell well, terrible app selection. People pretty much brought it before they even used one.

Lazer disc was better quality than dvd. Beta max better quality than VHS. I think people underestimate the influence of good marketing, pricing, and the easily lead/follower nature of most people and a whole bunch of other factors.

Phones are (increasingly less, as they are tbh pretty boring) status symbols. So some folks go in for shiny and gaudy. MS should have used its xbox image for consumers, or even its new creators imagine, not its stuff business image. Business aint sexy unless it involves crack and hookers.

I always hear this user experience thing trotted around, but as much as the concept is useful for developers, it seems more like marketing the way a lot of people use it.

 

[Guytronic]

smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

Android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

iOS having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

Windows Mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.

A most relevant reply that most will casually dismiss.
Astounding truth.

 

[froi francisco]

all points to Microsoft's dedication with their mobile platform. perhaps their saying it lately that they are "committed with mobile" this is due to the fact that they have another plan in place to reboot the mobile platform AGAIN. but looking back, aside from marketing, I felt they didn't invested that much for mobile. Granted that they invested with Nokia but where is it now? They are one of the few companies that has billions of dollars but couldn't provide their mobile platform the needed funding (marketing, devs, fund companies to make apps). #justmy2cents

 

[hemanlive]

I think I can point fingers on what has gone wrong with windows phones leading to current situation where it is as good as dead barring the life support in terms of regular updates (even that is going down now!)
MS never really put its efforts and money into gaining market shares. It wanted to compete with Apple. That in itself is not bad, if you want to build the 'ultimate mobile device'. But given that you are a new entrant into the market which is a duopoly, then you got to take some drastic measures. I am talking about subsidizing the phones to entice users to come and 'try out' this new phone OS. Even with the kind of entry level pricing of Lumias (though the specs were quite basic too, and in that sense the pricing was not aggressive at all!) windows mobile got to nearly 10% market share in Europe and was still doing OK in US, LATAM and APAC. What was required back then was further pumping of money to keep coming with even better devices and even lower prices just to take that market share to 20% or more. That would have resulted in paving up the app-gap, which by the way at its lowest during that time. instead MS believed in comparing with iPhone and how much is that charged and believed that we are still charging less, to tally ignoring the delta that existed in apps, which is the biggest reason people were not willing to pick a windows phone at all.
Instead MS decided to write off its phone business altogether. The developers began fleeing and so did the users. Now it is at its very end. Even with the super phone aka the Surface Phone, there are very little chances of windows being available on phones in coming few years.

 

[Drael646464]

smartphones has reached its theoretical wall.

android is moving towards adding more functions, exceeding of those of the core smartphone functions to its base os.

ios having a great library of apps that offers additional function, is happy to stay where it is.

windows mobile is torn between being android and apple - mostly because of the perception and expectations given by its own users. lets be real here, nobody cares about windows phone, let alone talk about it, except for us, the small group of people known as the windows phone/mobile users.

Yeah I think smartphones hit that wall pretty quick. Problem is development money and what people really want from a phone. People will either pay nothing, and get ads, or pay 3-4 bucks for an app. So you get pretty shallow development. 2.8 million apps, but not that much actual power in any of it.

PC desktop by comparison people will spend 100+ on a game, or hundreds, or even thousands for specialised software. They want that complexity, and they pay for it.

So while you do get new crowdsourcing applications, share economies, different ways of using GPSs and databases, smartphones actually hit their software limit pretty quick, primarily because its a small screen, with simple applications, and the only real money on it software wise, is either AAA success, or advertising.

iOS is slightly better in this regard because of the premium nature of the products, and the odd enterprise/govt development. But not by a wide margin.

And as you say, google is trying to pick up the slack by doing all the core coding themselves, expanding the phones function by using their own money. I'm honestly not sure how smart an investment that is. Google maps might make sense, as does google docs, but past a certain point, your disabling your internal market, part of what draws people to the platform.

Google assistant, if voice actually took off, would threaten googles main profit model.

That's part of why I have a lot of confidence windows as a hybrid OS. Its practically easier to create a system that scale down power and complexity, than create a system that adds power and complexity.

What google seems intent on doing, is gradually replacing its app market, with itself, in open agknowledgement that otherwise the software quality will never be good enough. iOS seems to float on with its slightly higher third party app quality, hoping that one day, people will just spend more and more and it will go up.

I guess the every day user doesn't notice much. But over time, other than 'new shiny, pretty', the motivation for device turnover and increased hardware power is pretty pragmatically thin next to say, a gaming PC, or a windows tablet, or most other modern tech.

At the same time we approach market saturation, and negative growth is occurring in mature markets. Tablets for both Samsung and apple have been in a downward slide, for years, while windows climbs - probably because of these very software development limits.

It feels to me like, smartphones are kind of a wave that will crash, long before the next big thing replaces it. Limited by one of the things that made them popular- freemium models, and coffee priced software. Nothing major will happen, people will just not bother to upgrade until their phone breaks, and buy a cheaper or midrange model when they do. But that must have, high device turn over, high adoption, premium "wow" "yay" was the whole thing driving the boom. Its that same "meh", that lead PC's to slow down (which co-incidentaly are in an upgrade cycle now).

Those are probably the same forces that will eventually drive device convergence too. And of course the death nail will be new input methods, output methods and form factors, which all lie on the horizon - but I feel like the wave will crash probably this year or next, or the beginning of it.

Not without its benefits. The current smartphone has shown us the power of combining GPS, LTE and databases for share economies, crowdsourcing, navigation, social messaging and more. Whatever comes next, will take these and add to them.

 

[Hoangboy]

Just switched from android to to Windows Mobile 10 with a nice Lumia 950 xl. I'm going to be blunt, I can't see why Windows phone is having any problems at all. The OS is great. Windows Mobile 10 is amazing. Easy, fast, feeling like Windows on my PC. I kinda can't see why its not doing so good. Now being that my last Windows phone was a dell venue pro witch was WP7, I have missed a lot. I don't know all the dark times. But as someone who I's coming fresh to the new current WP10. It owns. Great hand set. The switch coming from a galaxy s4 was very easy. I got basically everything my old phone had.

This kinda make me ask, why is WP having such troubled times, and has such a bad rap? Microsoft should be purring everything into this. Not trying do do a 3rd time WP reboot/reset. This OS is great, its got some much potential. If they really tried I could see them, one day, being 15% to 20% of the phone market possibly. Microsoft should be rolling out updates for this OS every week. Is Microsoft not trying or something? Everyone thinks this OS is dead witch is really sad.

It's weird that you feel the W10 Mobile is fast. I have now on my hand 3 phones, a Lumia 950 with Creator Update, a Galaxy S6 with Nougat 7.0, an iPhone 6 with iOS 10.3.1, what I feel is the Galaxy is the fastest response of those 3, iOS is the most reliable and stable, the Lumia 950 sadly is at the same time not as fast nor stable.

 

[Xanc6]

Question to 950XL owners. I have a 950 XL about 2 years old now. I recently purchased 2 MS spare batteries for my phone.
When device is fully charged and tuned to the max (so battery hungry apps "never allowed I'm background"). I get until 5 p.m. and then device is at 15%. What do you think time to replace battery?

 

[nasznjoka]

Yeah I think smartphones hit that wall pretty quick. Problem is development money and what people really want from a phone. People will either pay nothing, and get ads, or pay 3-4 bucks for an app. So you get pretty shallow development. 2.8 million apps, but not that much actual power in any of it.

PC desktop by comparison people will spend 100+ on a game, or hundreds, or even thousands for specialised software. They want that complexity, and they pay for it.

So while you do get new crowdsourcing applications, share economies, different ways of using GPSs and databases, smartphones actually hit their software limit pretty quick, primarily because its a small screen, with simple applications, and the only real money on it software wise, is either AAA success, or advertising.

iOS is slightly better in this regard because of the premium nature of the products, and the odd enterprise/govt development. But not by a wide margin.

And as you say, google is trying to pick up the slack by doing all the core coding themselves, expanding the phones function by using their own money. I'm honestly not sure how smart an investment that is. Google maps might make sense, as does google docs, but past a certain point, your disabling your internal market, part of what draws people to the platform.

Google assistant, if voice actually took off, would threaten googles main profit model.

That's part of why I have a lot of confidence windows as a hybrid OS. Its practically easier to create a system that scale down power and complexity, than create a system that adds power and complexity.

What google seems intent on doing, is gradually replacing its app market, with itself, in open agknowledgement that otherwise the software quality will never be good enough. iOS seems to float on with its slightly higher third party app quality, hoping that one day, people will just spend more and more and it will go up.

I guess the every day user doesn't notice much. But over time, other than 'new shiny, pretty', the motivation for device turnover and increased hardware power is pretty pragmatically thin next to say, a gaming PC, or a windows tablet, or most other modern tech.

At the same time we approach market saturation, and negative growth is occurring in mature markets. Tablets for both Samsung and apple have been in a downward slide, for years, while windows climbs - probably because of these very software development limits.

It feels to me like, smartphones are kind of a wave that will crash, long before the next big thing replaces it. Limited by one of the things that made them popular- freemium models, and coffee priced software. Nothing major will happen, people will just not bother to upgrade until their phone breaks, and buy a cheaper or midrange model when they do. But that must have, high device turn over, high adoption, premium "wow" "yay" was the whole thing driving the boom. Its that same "meh", that lead PC's to slow down (which co-incidentaly are in an upgrade cycle now).

Those are probably the same forces that will eventually drive device convergence too. And of course the death nail will be new input methods, output methods and form factors, which all lie on the horizon - but I feel like the wave will crash probably this year or next, or the beginning of it.

Not without its benefits. The current smartphone has shown us the power of combining GPS, LTE and databases for share economies, crowdsourcing, navigation, social messaging and more. Whatever comes next, will take these and add to them.

Microsoft fanboys have really myopic perception of the smartphone.. I wonder why? Is it because MS has failed at it or? Tell you what, the power of the smartphone is not even 20% exploited.. There's so much a smartphone can do only time will tell... I see maybe in the next 30 years the smartphone will be controlling almost everything in our lives... It's begins and ends with it...

 

[Drael646464]

It's weird that you feel the W10 Mobile is fast. I have now on my hand 3 phones, a Lumia 950 with Creator Update, a Galaxy S6 with Nougat 7.0, an iPhone 6 with iOS 10.3.1, what I feel is the Galaxy is the fastest response of those 3, iOS is the most reliable and stable, the Lumia 950 sadly is at the same time not as fast nor stable.

Well objectively, the ios system has more crashes than android, afaik. At least that was the case the last time I looked.

 

[Drael646464]

Microsoft fanboys have really myopic perception of the smartphone.. I wonder why? Is it because MS has failed at it or? Tell you what, the power of the smartphone is not even 20% exploited.. There's so much a smartphone can do only time will tell... I see maybe in the next 30 years the smartphone will be controlling almost everything in our lives... It's begins and ends with it...

If you want to actually address any of the points I made about the limitations of development funding in the smartphone market, I'll be here. In the mean time facts speak for themselves- desktop browsers are html5 compatible, extension compatible, smartphone browsers are not. There is nothing of development wise generally that compares to desktop (or windows on tablet)

If you expect big money to fund real power, smartphone users will have to dish up more than three bucks, or watching a few ads for it. What you are expecting is quality programming on broadcast tv. Money for nothing and your chicks for free.

Mobile oriented development is great. Its brought us share economies, and useful local databases, better social messaging. But it's limited like everything by dollar bills. When you have one market paying fifty cents per license, and another one hundred, it's pretty clear who gets the depth.

PS, in case you mistook me, I've never used windows mobile in my life. I work with windows 10, and android for a living. Been into tech since the vic20. And don't call me biased because I hate apples closed system, prefer android customisation and access to the system, but I'll openly admit their software is better than androids, even though I prefer android.

If anyones the ****** here it's you. I can list something I like about every OS there is available. Can you?