Didn't Zak just write a column about how Microsoft isn't planning to bring CShell to small screen (i.e. phone-like) devices? It's a convertible/2-in-1/tablet play.
Just got my lumia 950 xl, love WP 10! Why is WP having a hard time?
- Thread starter TheHeroFromDOOM
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Didn't Zak just write a column about how Microsoft isn't planning to bring CShell to small screen (i.e. phone-like) devices? It's a convertible/2-in-1/tablet play.
buffalosolja
New member
I will agree with this above because I did the same thing unfortunately due to distance some of my family left the platform. My wife left because of certain apps she used to communicate and have fun with her family and friends didn't exist (she complains about battery life everyday as she is attached to a charger now)
MS does have a bad tendency of creating hype and then leaving the features out on our platform or removing items that we really enjoy and are ahead of their time in my opinion.
But to me recently the biggest disconnect what has me on the fence ( I have been on windows since 5.0 I have had 2125, the flip windows phone, all pocket pc (att versions) up) is connected devices. I am getting older mid 30s now and I am trying to be more active at the gym as I realize that I am not in 20s anymore
Since they have abandoned the MS band I have struggled to find replacement that actually works as it should. I will agree with Dona on this a little I don't want to be tethered to my phone on occasion and that being at the gym or in a meeting. Now I am missing out on nice features of my workout headsets I wish MS had their own line but using Jaybird Freedom I am missing out on the app that goes with the headphones. I picked up our housephone (iphone c) and was amazed with the functionality I was missing out on. I am not going anywhere even after my port started to smoke last week. But I am on the fence especially with the G8 bogo at ATT. I love our platform but we shouldn't be crippled by simple items. I work in IT at my company and make suggestion that influence 6K users. I was leaning on moving our company to a W10 mobile device if it at Citrix Receiver and use continuum would save us tons but with no road map it is hard to suggest that now. Especially when that functionality might come to the G8 and its continuum competitor. This is what MS should be cautious of as we are a MS shop but our end users only use a published app and our functionality for internal can be switched over to another offering as well.
I think the mobile focus if left behind will really hurt them in the foreseeable future. Finger exercise over
It's all about marketing.. Microsoft didn't do any marketing, except some product placements in movies and series. Windows Mobile is great. My wife has an Android since a few weeks, and is complaining a lot. She misses Windows Mobile, due it's simplicity.
I agree, I saw it, but he also mentioned eSim support, I read some stuff about eSim a while back and it is great, it is not only for the modular data services though, it can facilitate voice as well, so even if MS didn't mention Phone support, they can leave it up to ODMs on smaller screen devices.
uselessrobot
New member
The problem isn't the OS. Although, if you had picked up that 950XL on launch day you would have been less than pleased with the state of the OS. It was rough, to say the least and took a good 8-10 months to get where it needed to be.
The big problems with Windows phone have been:
The app gap is also a big problem, but that's one that could have been addressed gradually. Back when Microsoft/Nokia introduced the 920 and 1020, running WP8, they were gaining traction. They were gaining enough marketshare that people were taking notice. Then they squandered it all by not introducing a proper flagship in subsequent years, with the exception of the 930 outside of the US. That was one phone over the course of several years. Instead, Microsoft released a confusing deluge and low and mid-range phones.
Marketshare gradually eroded so that by the time the 950/950XL came along Microsoft really needed to get things right. Unfortunately, they botched that too. So they got ripped apart in the press. Even Microsoft themselves didn't instill much confidence that they were committed to the platform. The story was that the big focus was on a Surface phone and the 950-series was a stop-gap intended for the fans.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Windows Phone. My iPhone is more stable and battery life is more dependable, but in terms of UX, there are so many things that Windows Phone does better. It's a pity that few people have been exposed to the platform. Unfortunately, Microsoft has made too many mistakes and the app gap is a bigger problem than it's ever been. I can't in good conscience recommend Windows Phone to anyone outside of tinkerers.
The big problems with Windows phone have been:
- Poor and disjointed marketing, and that's when they bothered to market the phones at all.
- A lack of stability and commitment as Microsoft has jumped from WP 7, to 8 and then to 10. These weren't the incremental updates of Android or iOS, each version here obsoleted the prior version and there wasn't a lot of compatibility across versions.
- Terrible partnerships. The carriers they teamed with saw Windows phone as an after thought. Walk in to an AT&T store and you'd be lucky to find a Windows Phone on display. If you did find it, you then had a sales rep actively steering you towards iOS or Android.
- Microsoft also failed to get their phones in any major retailers. So what little marketing they ran was squandered when the phones were nowhere to be seen.
The app gap is also a big problem, but that's one that could have been addressed gradually. Back when Microsoft/Nokia introduced the 920 and 1020, running WP8, they were gaining traction. They were gaining enough marketshare that people were taking notice. Then they squandered it all by not introducing a proper flagship in subsequent years, with the exception of the 930 outside of the US. That was one phone over the course of several years. Instead, Microsoft released a confusing deluge and low and mid-range phones.
Marketshare gradually eroded so that by the time the 950/950XL came along Microsoft really needed to get things right. Unfortunately, they botched that too. So they got ripped apart in the press. Even Microsoft themselves didn't instill much confidence that they were committed to the platform. The story was that the big focus was on a Surface phone and the 950-series was a stop-gap intended for the fans.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Windows Phone. My iPhone is more stable and battery life is more dependable, but in terms of UX, there are so many things that Windows Phone does better. It's a pity that few people have been exposed to the platform. Unfortunately, Microsoft has made too many mistakes and the app gap is a bigger problem than it's ever been. I can't in good conscience recommend Windows Phone to anyone outside of tinkerers.
Why is MSFT having issues with W10M? Easy! It is consumer focused and MSFT does not understand the individual consumer. (I know I've been ranting on this but I think it is true so I'm sticking with it.)
XBOX was most likely a fluke and they haven't had any real successes in the consumer market. They have made some amazing products that I love but most if not all of the consumer focused ones they have no staying power.
MSFT hasn't had to understand the individual consumer. They are just used to having to convince the Enterprise customer and then having masses follow. Look at DOS and that was a gift from IBM. IBM probably did more to market DOS than MSFT. MSFT doesn't promote their products to the consumer level. They may have a MSFT Azure commercial during a golf game but the people they are going after are the executive decision makers not an individual consumer.
Last night I was watching the NBA finals games and at just about every commercial break, Samsung was advertising the G8. Cool and sexy ads that MSFT rarely has put out. There were so many of these ads that it got to be annoying but I'm guessing that the G8 will be the superphone of the year. Apple is screwing up the release of their new phone and I think the G8 is sexy enough to steal iPhone users.
With so many companies having a BYOP policy, I'm not sure how the Enterprise model for mobile devices and be significantly impacted. MSFT will have missed the boat.
I know that the Education event on 2 May is not about mobile but that would be where MSFT should start. If they truly are going to have a cellular connected device and they want it adopted, Education would be a great place to start. Instead they will bring out what the public will perceive as WinRT 2.0 and they will be confused.
I think MSFT has amazing technical talent that has built some great stuff but leadership and marketing have never executed to bring things to fruition because they don't understand the individual consumer.
XBOX was most likely a fluke and they haven't had any real successes in the consumer market. They have made some amazing products that I love but most if not all of the consumer focused ones they have no staying power.
MSFT hasn't had to understand the individual consumer. They are just used to having to convince the Enterprise customer and then having masses follow. Look at DOS and that was a gift from IBM. IBM probably did more to market DOS than MSFT. MSFT doesn't promote their products to the consumer level. They may have a MSFT Azure commercial during a golf game but the people they are going after are the executive decision makers not an individual consumer.
Last night I was watching the NBA finals games and at just about every commercial break, Samsung was advertising the G8. Cool and sexy ads that MSFT rarely has put out. There were so many of these ads that it got to be annoying but I'm guessing that the G8 will be the superphone of the year. Apple is screwing up the release of their new phone and I think the G8 is sexy enough to steal iPhone users.
With so many companies having a BYOP policy, I'm not sure how the Enterprise model for mobile devices and be significantly impacted. MSFT will have missed the boat.
I know that the Education event on 2 May is not about mobile but that would be where MSFT should start. If they truly are going to have a cellular connected device and they want it adopted, Education would be a great place to start. Instead they will bring out what the public will perceive as WinRT 2.0 and they will be confused.
I think MSFT has amazing technical talent that has built some great stuff but leadership and marketing have never executed to bring things to fruition because they don't understand the individual consumer.
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It is simple MS gave up, no marketing, no push for dev's to put new apps on it. MS disappeared.
The first major issue was canceling Mclaren when MS had some momentum with the Lumia 920. A new and growing OS can;t go an entire year without a flagship phone at a critical time.
I also pretty much blame Satya for canceling that project and trying to be a perfectionist. Windows mobile need new high end hardware to come out each and every year and they messed that up, then bungled the Nokia integration and in between all these mis steps did the worst thing possible and went silent on the entire platform.
It is 100% MS's bungle and they could have easily avoided this fate by putting even a minimal effort into pushing the platform
First - I still like Windows Mobile/Phone. However, I do notice the many missteps of MS along the way.
A lot of what others have said:
1. Late to the game. iOS caught them by surprise so they had to completely retool WM into WP7.
2. No update for WM devices to WP7 (which makes sense, but still a bit annoying)
3. Their horrible Partnership model w/ the carriers to try to push the devices when they were finally available. You really had to ask to be shown a device otherwise you'd never know they were there.
4. The WP7 -> WP8 upgrade fiasco. The Lumia 900 was a couple of months old, a premium model, and not able to be upgraded to WP8. All Gen1 devices left behind. (I know the reasons, but you don't gain goodwill doing this sort of thing.)
5. Lack of marketing and that "partnership" nonsense was still happening.
6. Slowly losing developers to support the apps.
7. WM10 upgrade not really announced well.
8. Whatever is going on now w/ MS hoping partners will produce devices. They should do what they did with the Surface - show what a top-notch device should be and let others copy or not.
9. CU caused even more perfectly good devices to fall into the "we don't support this anymore" category.
10. Marketing? What marketing?
There are still some developers who support the platform, especially those who write UWP apps. I appreciate those. Xamarin should make it possible for devs to write apps targeting iOS, Android, and UWP, but just doesn't seem to have caught on the way MS was hoping from what I can see. The good thing is that some devs have pulled older WP8 apps and released UWP apps - Bank of America for one. Sadly others haven't released replacements. And then we have the Google apps/platform where Google completely refuses to support WM in any way shape or form and has gone out of their way to mess with people who try to write apps for the platform by changing interfaces.
I'm admittedly curious about where all of this is going and still on board for the time being. Just picked up a 4S in the Amazon sale to replace the no-longer-to-be-updated Lumia 830. It's a good device so far and I still have enough apps to keep me going, though miss some hardware things that Alcatel didn't include like the step counter and wireless charging.
So to the original poster, if you're still following, enjoy your device and don't be too concerned about the complaints. A lot of the fans feel like we're being pretty ignored by MS and are frustrated by what we see as MS not managing the whole project very well. I think a lot of us still like or are interested in WM or we wouldn't be here.
A lot of what others have said:
1. Late to the game. iOS caught them by surprise so they had to completely retool WM into WP7.
2. No update for WM devices to WP7 (which makes sense, but still a bit annoying)
3. Their horrible Partnership model w/ the carriers to try to push the devices when they were finally available. You really had to ask to be shown a device otherwise you'd never know they were there.
4. The WP7 -> WP8 upgrade fiasco. The Lumia 900 was a couple of months old, a premium model, and not able to be upgraded to WP8. All Gen1 devices left behind. (I know the reasons, but you don't gain goodwill doing this sort of thing.)
5. Lack of marketing and that "partnership" nonsense was still happening.
6. Slowly losing developers to support the apps.
7. WM10 upgrade not really announced well.
8. Whatever is going on now w/ MS hoping partners will produce devices. They should do what they did with the Surface - show what a top-notch device should be and let others copy or not.
9. CU caused even more perfectly good devices to fall into the "we don't support this anymore" category.
10. Marketing? What marketing?
There are still some developers who support the platform, especially those who write UWP apps. I appreciate those. Xamarin should make it possible for devs to write apps targeting iOS, Android, and UWP, but just doesn't seem to have caught on the way MS was hoping from what I can see. The good thing is that some devs have pulled older WP8 apps and released UWP apps - Bank of America for one. Sadly others haven't released replacements. And then we have the Google apps/platform where Google completely refuses to support WM in any way shape or form and has gone out of their way to mess with people who try to write apps for the platform by changing interfaces.
I'm admittedly curious about where all of this is going and still on board for the time being. Just picked up a 4S in the Amazon sale to replace the no-longer-to-be-updated Lumia 830. It's a good device so far and I still have enough apps to keep me going, though miss some hardware things that Alcatel didn't include like the step counter and wireless charging.
So to the original poster, if you're still following, enjoy your device and don't be too concerned about the complaints. A lot of the fans feel like we're being pretty ignored by MS and are frustrated by what we see as MS not managing the whole project very well. I think a lot of us still like or are interested in WM or we wouldn't be here.
I recently left W10M after being with the platform since the original Samsung Focus. I am now on a Samsung Galaxy S7. It is a pretty phone and highly capable, but I miss my 950 everyday. For me, it finally came down to the app gap. My new company relies very heavily on Google services. Add HighFive teleconferencing and travel apps to the equation and I was simply not able to be productive with my 950.
If I started working for another O365 company, I would be right back in the Windows camp. That said, people don't buy phones only for productivity. They are an extension of everything you do. For many, that comes down to apps. MSFT missed the boat on this.
I say enjoy that Lumia. It is the best phone OS experience you can get right now. People on this site like to bag on MSFTs lack of progress. From my latest experience, the OD decisions have been thoughtful and deployed cleanly. And just keep your fingers crossed that when W10 for Arm is released, MSFT invests a ton of money into getting apps. In my opinion, whatever settlements they made over the Android IP lawsuits should have granted them access to the Play Store. Oh well.
If I started working for another O365 company, I would be right back in the Windows camp. That said, people don't buy phones only for productivity. They are an extension of everything you do. For many, that comes down to apps. MSFT missed the boat on this.
I say enjoy that Lumia. It is the best phone OS experience you can get right now. People on this site like to bag on MSFTs lack of progress. From my latest experience, the OD decisions have been thoughtful and deployed cleanly. And just keep your fingers crossed that when W10 for Arm is released, MSFT invests a ton of money into getting apps. In my opinion, whatever settlements they made over the Android IP lawsuits should have granted them access to the Play Store. Oh well.
I have to agree with the article. I painfully switched to Android, away from an HP Elite X3. It is only because Microsoft is doing everything it can to shut it down. Period. Only one message of confidence and correlating actions - nothing.
Microsoft, you have done this to yourself.
Microsoft, you have done this to yourself.
Dirtrot
New member
Some blame has to go to us as well and the current app culture. If we actaully bought apps from the app store instead of wanting only the free ones developers would come. Im guilty of this as well. I just picked up a 950 xl and i agree its a nice phone, should of owned it when it came out. Now tho im even less inclined to purchese an app in fear it doesnt work or isnt supported. IMO wincentral should do more storys on the developers still with us...like a weekly app corner so maybe we do something and buy/support the developers we have. And for gods sake someone make me a good side by side app video app that works with youtube or other streaming video. Not 360 I could care less about the crappy 360 videos out there.
Nothing's wrong.
Only perception.
Ever since the arrival of WP7, Android users were sceptical of the UI, and thought there are less limitations with android.
WP 8/8.1 was indeed picking up in 2014 and so,but MS decided to go for w10m, which has been a mistake.
2 years after insiders have been using it, w10m is now somewhat good enough to be shipped with a phone.
But, apps still crash.
Everything has been too little, too late.
I personally love Windows on phone, but I can't convince no one to buy one.
Thanks.
Only perception.
Ever since the arrival of WP7, Android users were sceptical of the UI, and thought there are less limitations with android.
WP 8/8.1 was indeed picking up in 2014 and so,but MS decided to go for w10m, which has been a mistake.
2 years after insiders have been using it, w10m is now somewhat good enough to be shipped with a phone.
But, apps still crash.
Everything has been too little, too late.
I personally love Windows on phone, but I can't convince no one to buy one.
Thanks.
fatclue_98
Retired Moderator
Windows 10 was forced upon us because of a few vocal crybabies who couldn't deal with Windows 8 or Metro. If the start button was soooo important they should've stayed on 7 and let the rest of the world progress. The Denim update on WP8.1 was so solid and could've seen more updates and features but nooooo.
captblaze
New member
they also shut out Verizon, or Verizon shut Microsoft out and that closes the door to a boat load of customers. Is it a great strategy or ship wreck in the making? That answer is in the eye if the beholder
Why has WP died? Bad decisions by Microsoft. Poor management and bad or non-existent marketing. Things were moving in the right direction when the 1020 was released. WP was gaining market share globally. It was beating iOS in several markets. We were even gaining developer interest. But, the 1020 didn't get the reception Microsoft was hoping for... at first... and it was like Microsoft gave up. The 1020 was billed a "niche" device by many tech blogs because of the amazing camera and Microsoft settled for that label. In the US, carrier exclusives was the stupidest decision ever. That locked millions out of having the option to use the phone and AT&T didn't EVER do Microsoft/Nokia any favors. They usually tried to talk customers out of getting WP devices. At $299+ on contract in the US it was going toe-to-toe with the best of iOS and Android. At that price point, it wasn't a compelling purchase for many when they could get the best phone of the more popular platforms. Months later it was selling for $199 and then $99 (with contract). At those price points the purchase was super compelling, but Microsoft had already given up on the phone and stopped all marketing, so no one knew about it. The tech blogs finally started giving the 1020 its due credit in the camera department about 6 months after release and continued to recognize the phone as the gold standard in premier camera quality well beyond a year after its release, but again, Microsoft had already given up on it. Then, the true demise of WP began when the successor to the 1020 was cancelled. Market share started dropping with the 1020 as Microsoft gave up on it, even though it was an awesome phone, and still my favorite phone that I've owned. Then with the cancellation of the next phone, WP took a nose dive and has never recovered. There have been a lot of other issues and bad decisions from Microsoft that compounded the problems, but what I described above is when WP went from growing to dying.
Some other contributors:
Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible mismanagement of the Nokia purchase! That could have and should have been amazing for WP. It wasn't though. In the end, all it accomplished was costing Microsoft billions of dollars and putting thousands of Nokia employees out of work.
Windows 10 Mobile has been perpetually buggy and does not get the in-house attention it desperately needs. In my opinion, one of the biggest flaws by Microsoft is that their developers and management do not use Windows 10 Mobile as their daily phones. Quality would be 300% better if the developers and management used the platform. There is no way the persistent irritants would still exist if they were. No one would stand for them. Evidence that no one over there is actually using it.
The app gap is real
Some other contributors:
Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible mismanagement of the Nokia purchase! That could have and should have been amazing for WP. It wasn't though. In the end, all it accomplished was costing Microsoft billions of dollars and putting thousands of Nokia employees out of work.
Windows 10 Mobile has been perpetually buggy and does not get the in-house attention it desperately needs. In my opinion, one of the biggest flaws by Microsoft is that their developers and management do not use Windows 10 Mobile as their daily phones. Quality would be 300% better if the developers and management used the platform. There is no way the persistent irritants would still exist if they were. No one would stand for them. Evidence that no one over there is actually using it.
The app gap is real
Microsoft and Apple are both ancient companies, but Apple had the chance to rebirth from its ashes. Not the same with Microsoft.
The company itself and most of their brands (specially Windows), are perceived as outdated and boring.
MS will NOT be able sell a smartphone that runs "Windows" (CE, Mobile, Phone, whatever last name they use), that's why Apple is not selling the iPhone running "macOS Mobile" or "OSX Phone", and Android was not called "Linux Mobile".
As an example, if MS renames the XBox to "Windows Gaming Box", it will fail miserably.
But, at this point, in order to save their mobile platform, MS should:
- Sasha Nutella, please go home and never come back
- Exclude Insiders from the "rebirth" process
- Start from scratch, use the same OS core, but put it a different name (XPhone?)
- Use a unique and fresh GUI, no more live tiles, but keep the concept behind that.
- Make it available to legacy Lumia devices (if not all of them, at least the high-ends)
- Allow it to run WP8.X and WM10 apps
- Include unique cool stuff like XBox and XBox360 Emulation
- Limit to 3 or 4 models (low-end, med-end, high-end and high-end XL)
- STOP using the f***ing poly-carbonate on high-end models!!!!!
- DO NOT launch a device running a beta version of the OS
- Invest money (a LOT of money) in marketing and to attract developers
And the most important of all the things: Show some respect to customers by keeping your promises.
The company itself and most of their brands (specially Windows), are perceived as outdated and boring.
MS will NOT be able sell a smartphone that runs "Windows" (CE, Mobile, Phone, whatever last name they use), that's why Apple is not selling the iPhone running "macOS Mobile" or "OSX Phone", and Android was not called "Linux Mobile".
As an example, if MS renames the XBox to "Windows Gaming Box", it will fail miserably.
But, at this point, in order to save their mobile platform, MS should:
- Sasha Nutella, please go home and never come back
- Exclude Insiders from the "rebirth" process
- Start from scratch, use the same OS core, but put it a different name (XPhone?)
- Use a unique and fresh GUI, no more live tiles, but keep the concept behind that.
- Make it available to legacy Lumia devices (if not all of them, at least the high-ends)
- Allow it to run WP8.X and WM10 apps
- Include unique cool stuff like XBox and XBox360 Emulation
- Limit to 3 or 4 models (low-end, med-end, high-end and high-end XL)
- STOP using the f***ing poly-carbonate on high-end models!!!!!
- DO NOT launch a device running a beta version of the OS
- Invest money (a LOT of money) in marketing and to attract developers
And the most important of all the things: Show some respect to customers by keeping your promises.
mymarcio
Member
I think the biggest challenge Windows Phone has had to face is the media. I feel like since the phone was launched even Windows fans sites have done a great job of repeating the headline "WINDOWS PHONE IS DEAD", "THE DEATH OF WINDOWS PHONE", "THE END OF WINDOWS AND MOBILE", "WINDOWS MOBILE FAIL"...
I don't care how you spin this headline or how great your content is, for users who don't read the articles (developers, fans, potential adopters) that headline has been echoing on TheVerge, Windows Central, OnMSFT, etc.
Regardless of the KING's health, if you keep repeating that the king has is dying for years, eventually there will be a time the kind does die and you will be right. "But why would a headline affect the success of a mobile platform? You're so clueless!" I swear I can head some people say that. Truth is, success is mostly influenced by word of mouth.
In today's world, if you google/bing/duckduckgo/search online the words Windows Mobile/Phone -- most of the top hits are "Windows Phone is Dead". If I was researching a new product to buy -- then that's not one I'd want to consider. If I was a new developer, then I'm definitely not putting time to develop for an app that's at it's end.
I would love for someone to run a script on the major tech sites that talk about Windows phones and actually get a percentage of "WINDOWS PHONE DEAD articles" versus "Windows is great and will succeed."
I think you'd see more than 50% of the articles as being negative towards the OS. With that said, being a consumer, if I go to Amazon and most of the comments are negative -- even if the product seems to meet my needs, I will not chance it. Phones are even more personal to us than any product and they are something we depend on 60% of the time (statistic being guesstimated to make a point) to accomplish day to day (navigation, email, shopping, to-do, fitness, music, videos, games, social media, communication, etc.)
So the next time a media outlet asks "why do you think Windows OS failed" ask yourself first -- "What message has the media been giving?"
Note: I'm not saying MSFT is free of guilt, but even their leaders have gotten the perception that the phone isn't worth pursuing possibly given their sales figures and the reviews sites give.
The process as I saw it: **
1) Sites state, people Windows Phone is dead due to App Gap
2) People don't buy phones due to sites saying Windows is dying and doesn't have apps
3) Microsoft does not sell enough or promote product because people don't seem interested
4) Developers don't develop because the company seems to have lost faith
5) Sites re-state Windows Phone is dead (for the next few years)
6) Few users jump ship due to a dying platform
7) Microsoft stops developing phones because they are losing even more market share and whenever they update they anger customers by not supporting all phones **
8) Developers pull their apps because Microsoft's unclear message of commitment to mobile phones
9) Sites ask users Why is Windows Phone dead!?
10) We're on this forum trying to figure out why Windows Phone failed.
**Also agree with users who said about too many phones to support. Apple has made customers happy because they have very few models and they are almost identical to support. It also means all phones can be upgraded (even if they don't support all new features)
I don't care how you spin this headline or how great your content is, for users who don't read the articles (developers, fans, potential adopters) that headline has been echoing on TheVerge, Windows Central, OnMSFT, etc.
Regardless of the KING's health, if you keep repeating that the king has is dying for years, eventually there will be a time the kind does die and you will be right. "But why would a headline affect the success of a mobile platform? You're so clueless!" I swear I can head some people say that. Truth is, success is mostly influenced by word of mouth.
In today's world, if you google/bing/duckduckgo/search online the words Windows Mobile/Phone -- most of the top hits are "Windows Phone is Dead". If I was researching a new product to buy -- then that's not one I'd want to consider. If I was a new developer, then I'm definitely not putting time to develop for an app that's at it's end.
I would love for someone to run a script on the major tech sites that talk about Windows phones and actually get a percentage of "WINDOWS PHONE DEAD articles" versus "Windows is great and will succeed."
I think you'd see more than 50% of the articles as being negative towards the OS. With that said, being a consumer, if I go to Amazon and most of the comments are negative -- even if the product seems to meet my needs, I will not chance it. Phones are even more personal to us than any product and they are something we depend on 60% of the time (statistic being guesstimated to make a point) to accomplish day to day (navigation, email, shopping, to-do, fitness, music, videos, games, social media, communication, etc.)
So the next time a media outlet asks "why do you think Windows OS failed" ask yourself first -- "What message has the media been giving?"
Note: I'm not saying MSFT is free of guilt, but even their leaders have gotten the perception that the phone isn't worth pursuing possibly given their sales figures and the reviews sites give.
The process as I saw it: **
1) Sites state, people Windows Phone is dead due to App Gap
2) People don't buy phones due to sites saying Windows is dying and doesn't have apps
3) Microsoft does not sell enough or promote product because people don't seem interested
4) Developers don't develop because the company seems to have lost faith
5) Sites re-state Windows Phone is dead (for the next few years)
6) Few users jump ship due to a dying platform
7) Microsoft stops developing phones because they are losing even more market share and whenever they update they anger customers by not supporting all phones **
8) Developers pull their apps because Microsoft's unclear message of commitment to mobile phones
9) Sites ask users Why is Windows Phone dead!?
10) We're on this forum trying to figure out why Windows Phone failed.
**Also agree with users who said about too many phones to support. Apple has made customers happy because they have very few models and they are almost identical to support. It also means all phones can be upgraded (even if they don't support all new features)
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he_shark
New member
You're right it's the best OS out there. I've been using an Android phone this year (broke my 950XL) and it's upsetting that this is the main OS that people use, it's so clunky in comparison; like going back to Windows 95.
But there's no need for big lists of why it's not doing well, it's simple people hate Microsoft.
MS had 20 years (at least) of a monopoly on the desktop, people resented that, people were frustrated with BSODs, some dodgy market practice and basically just decided to hate on MS. They ignore the fact MS had their tails cut by the EU and have changed their business practices and are pretty much a new company. They ignore the fact MS actually put out good products these days, all they can remember is that 10 years ago they did something bad. Google (an advertising firm) managed to persuade people that they are cool - basically people are fickle and would rather take a free product, not seeing the hidden costs. As long as it's not MS, they will give it a shot, doesn't matter if the product isn't as good (look at all the people using Google Docs instead of Office because it's free - sure Google Docs isn't so bad these days, but people used it for years when it was).
So people who say MS are to blame are missing the point, I feel MS tried really hard to make mobile work, they did sink billions into it after all (Nokia alone was what $7BN). They courted devs, the paid for people to build apps, they bought Xamarin, they made their own apps (remember their great YouTube client that Google banned?). They tried every trick they could, but they couldn't overcome people's irrational hatred of Microsoft - the most famous example being the ***** in charge of Snapchat.
They need to work on their marketing, that's all they need to do. They need a Steve Jobs so people think they are cool like people weirdly think Apple are cool. They need more free **** to blind people like Google do. Otherwise Windows will be the next victim and Microsoft generally will just fade away. One thing I would have done differently is not call it Windows Mobile or Windows Phone, XPhone or something to tie in with XBOX (the one brand MS have that isn't too tainted - people don't realise it's a Microsoft product sometimes, it's just XBOX). Windows Phone though, people just laugh "Windows on my phone, does it need anti-virus, does it BSOD,..." etc, etc. It was setting it up for failure.
So the product is great, I really still think it's the best mobile OS, but the marketing was poor, MS's goodwill is low and Apple & Google have been happily stealing everyone away.
But there's no need for big lists of why it's not doing well, it's simple people hate Microsoft.
MS had 20 years (at least) of a monopoly on the desktop, people resented that, people were frustrated with BSODs, some dodgy market practice and basically just decided to hate on MS. They ignore the fact MS had their tails cut by the EU and have changed their business practices and are pretty much a new company. They ignore the fact MS actually put out good products these days, all they can remember is that 10 years ago they did something bad. Google (an advertising firm) managed to persuade people that they are cool - basically people are fickle and would rather take a free product, not seeing the hidden costs. As long as it's not MS, they will give it a shot, doesn't matter if the product isn't as good (look at all the people using Google Docs instead of Office because it's free - sure Google Docs isn't so bad these days, but people used it for years when it was).
So people who say MS are to blame are missing the point, I feel MS tried really hard to make mobile work, they did sink billions into it after all (Nokia alone was what $7BN). They courted devs, the paid for people to build apps, they bought Xamarin, they made their own apps (remember their great YouTube client that Google banned?). They tried every trick they could, but they couldn't overcome people's irrational hatred of Microsoft - the most famous example being the ***** in charge of Snapchat.
They need to work on their marketing, that's all they need to do. They need a Steve Jobs so people think they are cool like people weirdly think Apple are cool. They need more free **** to blind people like Google do. Otherwise Windows will be the next victim and Microsoft generally will just fade away. One thing I would have done differently is not call it Windows Mobile or Windows Phone, XPhone or something to tie in with XBOX (the one brand MS have that isn't too tainted - people don't realise it's a Microsoft product sometimes, it's just XBOX). Windows Phone though, people just laugh "Windows on my phone, does it need anti-virus, does it BSOD,..." etc, etc. It was setting it up for failure.
So the product is great, I really still think it's the best mobile OS, but the marketing was poor, MS's goodwill is low and Apple & Google have been happily stealing everyone away.
HoosierDaddy
Well-known member
May be a big challenge but its not the media's fault. Its a tough world. A great competitor will find a way to minimize or defuse challenges. One example would be the current US president. The press was overwhelmingly negative about him much more so than it is/was about Windows Phone/Mobile but he was able to beat them. It can be done. But you do have to be smarter than your adversaries which MS doesn't seem to even be an equal.
Didier3001
New member
Written from my 950 XL that I love. This is my 4th Windows phone. (1020, 635, 650 and 950 XL)
This is what I think are the causes:
# lack of marketing to tell the people that most of the apps exist on the platform and the vast majority of people only use 10 apps on a daily basis.
# lack of marketing showing the benefits of the platform such as familiarity and synchronization with Windows 10 pc, tablets, bands.
# lack of marketing to promote some apps developed by third party developers simply because they are better than the official app.
# lack of marketing to change people misconception of Windows 10 Mobile.
# some apps and OS stability issues that were caused by OS upgrade but that were almost all resolved by hard reset.
# lack of support for older device. Some people were happy running new build with insider but then Microsoft prevented them to do the upgrade later on. Let the customers do the upgrade even id not officially supported and let them choose to revert to 8.1 using Windows Device recovery tool.
# Lack of hardware (this is more a recent issue)
This is what I think are the causes:
# lack of marketing to tell the people that most of the apps exist on the platform and the vast majority of people only use 10 apps on a daily basis.
# lack of marketing showing the benefits of the platform such as familiarity and synchronization with Windows 10 pc, tablets, bands.
# lack of marketing to promote some apps developed by third party developers simply because they are better than the official app.
# lack of marketing to change people misconception of Windows 10 Mobile.
# some apps and OS stability issues that were caused by OS upgrade but that were almost all resolved by hard reset.
# lack of support for older device. Some people were happy running new build with insider but then Microsoft prevented them to do the upgrade later on. Let the customers do the upgrade even id not officially supported and let them choose to revert to 8.1 using Windows Device recovery tool.
# Lack of hardware (this is more a recent issue)
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