Major Microsoft Surface Pro 2 Flaw with Pen Tracking

[Ascor]

OK, so I re-calibrated the pen input and now its all working perfectly... the corners are working as expected, originally I had the issue with top left corner but after calibration its dead on. Me a happy camper

Did you do the normal 4 point calibration? Did you have the Wacom drivers installed? Did you hold the pen perpendicular to the screen or in your normal writing angle?

 

[chezm]

Did you do the normal 4 point calibration? Did you have the Wacom drivers installed? Did you hold the pen perpendicular to the screen or in your normal writing angle?

4 point calibration at each corner of the screen

Not sure if they're installed, I only have what Microsoft update would install on my system. I didn't go out of my way to install any additional drivers...yet.

Normal writing angle

 

[Ascor]

4 point calibration at each corner of the screen

Not sure if they're installed, I only have what Microsoft update would install on my system. I didn't go out of my way to install any additional drivers...yet.

Normal writing angle

Thanks, the drivers aren't installed by default, you have to get them from wacom, guess that means I'll try to uninstall them tonight and go without them. Hoping it'll work

 

[chezm]

Thanks, the drivers aren't installed by default, you have to get them from wacom, guess that means I'll try to uninstall them tonight and go without them. Hoping it'll work

Ah, thanks for the heads up

 

[MBytes]

So if i understand this correctly... to get pressure sensitivity you need to install Wacom drivers.
They are not installed by default. But, Microsoft has support for pressure sensitivity out of the box (no Wacom drivers needed) for Modern UI apps?

If so, why Microsoft doesn't make these API available for desktop applications? Well isn't it obvious thing to do?

 

[SwimSwim]

So if i understand this correctly... to get pressure sensitivity you need to install Wacom drivers.
They are not installed by default. But, Microsoft has support for pressure sensitivity out of the box (no Wacom drivers needed) for Modern UI apps?

If so, why Microsoft doesn't make these API available for desktop applications? Well isn't it obvious thing to do?

Probably because Microsoft is really trying to push RT apps. The future truly is mobile computing. Legacy Windows is powerful, but it's also old. And since back in the day, Microsoft had no clear vision for itself, anytime a new OS version came out, they just layered and slapped on more code atop what's already there (I'm well aware it's far more technical than that, but I don't fully understand it myself, so I'm simplifying it. Therefore, I ask all the developers who know what they're talking about too not slaughter me :wink. It works, but also makes development a pain. There are many different things trying to run side-by-side, and older software limitations can come back to bite (doing something as simple as changing a menu's layout could mean a lot more work than necessary, just because of code that's ancient).

It works, but it's also a pain. Just like Microsoft is reorganizing and rebranding itself so all the departments are less fragmented and communicate more efficiently (I.E: the Metro language is now being used across nearly all services and products), they're trying to do the same with Windows. Windows RT offers a fresh slate, a new, clean beginning. Where things can be more intuitively designed and make life easier.

So yes, while legacy Windows is still relevant, Microsoft is also really trying to move forward with a new, clean beginning, without all the problems of yore.

 

[MBytes]

Oh no I agree with Microsoft vision and direction... hence why I am getting a Surface Pro 2. And why I have Windows 8, well now 8.1 on my laptop and desktop.
It's just that... you know.. you HAVE the code done.. why not port it as additional API for desktop programs to support, if they want to. I am not saying Microsoft should figure out a way to make all current desktop support it.. that will spell disaster for sure, already the new DPI scaling in 8.1 system break some games, even at when Windows is set to 100% (normal) DPI setting (there is a fix, with compatibility mode, so it's not the end of the world). Just additional API for software to support. So like, let's a say a new version of PhotoShop on desktop can support it out of the box, without Wacom drivers.

 

[rocketboy]

FYI: I decided to look at the tracking on my Wacom Cintiq 21UX and even that has corner issues (albeit less pronounced than on my SP2). This is dedicated drawing hardware produced by Wacom costing more than the surface pro and is generally amazing to draw on. I'd go with the basic-technology-issue outside of MS control and wouldn't rely on the 1cm square at each corner being accurate. If it is you're just lucky.

 

[vipkl]

Also discussed here BTW.

 

[MBytes]

The pen default calibration works perfectly.
The problem is that you are not holding the pen in the right angle of what it was calibrated to.
If you hold the pen (right hand), in the fashion of not having your palm black your horizontal peripheral view, bellow your pen, then the tracking is near excellent.
If not, ie: holding the pen like 'normally', then you have what you see on the video.
Try positioning your hand/pen at different angles in rotation and tilt, you'll find the right angle the pen was calibrated to, and how everything, by magic, works perfectly (considerating the wacom technology limitation, of being not great on corners, so not a true perfect, but definitely better)... beside possibly not be comfortable for you.

You need to calibrate the pen, for your hand holding position. Things to keep in mind. A small offset of the target at some point will create a larger gap in your tracking at some location, in addition, you need to hold the pen while you calibrate and when using, at the same defined position, else you'll have spots where the tracking is off by a few degree... up to you, if the gap difference will be an issue at the particular zone, if you prefer to change the pen angle at each for corner. Keep in mind that the calibration considers the entire pen position, when you hit the target point.

I hope this helps understanding how it works

 

[username55]

Works perfectly is a pretty big overstatement. If your an artist this tablet is useless for any fine work. Its ok if you just want to sketchup something, but you can never reliably trace a line.

 

[PandaSPUR]

Definitely not working perfectly, and definitely not just a calibration issue.

If you move at a steady rate towards a corner of the screen, you'll notice the pointer suddenly "jump" or "accelerate" ahead as you get closer to that corner.
Its a tracking issue.

I on the other hand have an entirely different pen issue which has persisted through to my third SP2 replacement now... Freaking pen clicks on its own in the corners.

 

[MBytes]

Definitely not working perfectly, and definitely not just a calibration issue.

If you move at a steady rate towards a corner of the screen, you'll notice the pointer suddenly "jump" or "accelerate" ahead as you get closer to that corner.
Its a tracking issue.

I on the other hand have an entirely different pen issue which has persisted through to my third SP2 replacement now... Freaking pen clicks on its own in the corners.

Tracking issue on corner is a limitation of the Wacom technology.

As for your pen issue I don't have this. Do you have a screen protector, they can interfere with the digitizer.

 

[PandaSPUR]

Tracking issue on corner is a limitation of the Wacom technology.

As for your pen issue I don't have this. Do you have a screen protector, they can interfere with the digitizer.

Either way, tracking issue is tracking issue.

And yes I do, but its not the problem. The two replacements I've tested had no screen protectors and still had the clicking issue. One was brand new w/ accessories so I was able to test a new pen as well, still had the issue. Second one (the one I have now) is a refurb (I'm assuming, since it didnt come in retail box) and also has the issue.

Its really odd. If I point with the eraser end, it doesn't have the ghost clicking issues.

At least this replacement finally doesnt have a kickstand or screen glass bulge.

 

[1jaxstate1]

Just used sketchpad pro today after a month off, and it was spot on. Not sure if there were some updates that improved the accuracy, but it's great now.

Never had the pen issue before either.

 

[Kzzz]

I found this thread because I just started to notice horrible issue with tracking at the edges on all sides. Also when I was trying to select toolbars (like in windows journal) the pen tracker would not move vertically at all. Someone mentioned to reset the calibration and this completely solved the problem.

I tried this a few times, and at least on my device, calibration leads to really horrible issues every single time and resetting to default fixes it. The default calibration setting works great for me, although I was hoping to calibrate for even more precision. I take lots of notes so I'm staying away from calibration until this problem is fixed.

 

[randomscandinavian]

I bought the Surface Pro 2 before Christmas and I'm still unable to use it for work because of the pen issues. It's just a big flat paperweight to me. I was holding off for a fix that I expected to arrive with the new firmware and so it's too late to return it now.

I have tried with and without WinTab drivers, calibrated and uncalibrated. Calibrated using different angles and so on. No use.
BTW, this review says that the digitizer does not support pen tilting angle anyway, so if that is true then the hand angle thing is just a placebo effect. Surface Pro with Wacom WinTab Drivers makes Photoshop, Painter, Illustrator, etc. Excellent - YouTube

The thing is that I'm sure the pen was pretty good out of the box but once I have started all of this it seems impossible to get back to that state. I'm not able to format the entire computer and spend over ten hours setting it back up again with all of this software and configuration.

So what to do? So many conflicting stories about calibration methods using hundreds of points and how they either work or don't work at all with the WinTab drivers installed. I much prefer some level of accuracy over pressure sensitivity because now it isn't even right in the middle of the screen.

 

[MBytes]

I don't know what to say. I have done that 200 something calibration point process, and I have no problem with my pen when writing and works great on corners. Took time to do the calibration, but the results works. It is also a lot better on corners. The down side, is that for some reason I can't reach the last 5-8 pixels to the right of the screen. but the charm bar still shows. I just can't click on the 'show desktop' button next to the clock. I know how to fix it (add a lot of calibration points on the edge, but as school started, I just don't have the time).

Why did I calibrated the pen?
-> After a while, I figured out what is the position of the hand/pen of the out of the box calibration, but I found that uncomfortable for wright. fine to hitting buttons on a program, but not writhing. So I had to calibrate it. The default 16 point calibration works fine, IF and only if, the hand and pen angle/tilt remains exactly the same, and you do it with extreme (near impossible) precision. If not, you'll have an area where the track won't be good. The 200 something point calibration, allowed me to calibrate the pen like I would have my hand and pen at the are of the screen, allowing me to have the pen act always perfectly on how I would use the pen. It must be noted, that as I calibrated the pen when my Surface Pro 2 is flat on the table. If I put it on it's kick-stand, the calibration is incorrect, as the way I hold the pen is no longer identical, which is normal and expected.

-> I wanted the pen cursor not at the actual tip that touches the screen, but rather sifted to the left by a few pixels, like I would get from a real pen. So when I calibrated my pen, I took this in consideration, where I did a small offset on every target point.

 

[randomscandinavian]

Interesting about the offset. I dislike it when the tip point on screen gets hidden behind the pen tip as it touches the screen. But how to compensate for that? Click too far to the right or to the left at the calibration points?

And for this many point calibration to work, I can not ha e the Wacom drivers installed, is that correct?

 

[MBytes]

I have no idea if it works with the Wacom drivers. Never looked into it. Apparently Adobe is working on making PhotoShop high DPI friendly, and also support Windows Ink API, in addition of continuing to support Wacom's FeelIt WinTab API.

I did my offset to the right of the target point. I first experiment with the default 16-point calibration to know the proper offset. Once I figured it out (I think it was 1 pen tip distance), now I did the 200 something point calibration to have it proper everywhere on the screen.