MS says W10M is ready, I call that BS

[Krystianpants]

^ It's funny (/s) how Thurrott and WMPU interpret that statement from MS in completely different ways. One says nothing has changed, WMPU claims everything has changed.


Ho hum...



I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.

There was an article a while back that said ms would control the updates for windows phone 8.... Same wording and all. Never happened, people were left in the dark and updates took forever. 8.1 took 6 months to get to me. Luckily I had developer preview app. So we will see what happens this time. History repeats itself.

EDIT: Here's a classic link from windows phone 7 haha.

\\microsoft not carriers will push win phone 7 updates/

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I wish MS would one day publish a FAQ that answers these types of questions with some technical depth rather than just talking points.

The world is going the opposite direction. Companies have figured out that such a tiny percent of customers and potential customers demand information, including even the most basic of operating instructions, that they can completely avoid the cost of providing it. Sure some will grumble, but in the end, even that doesn't effect sales if the competition is doing the same.

 

[a5cent]

Look at the article closely from Thurrott and where he gets his information. Look at the source link. It's the WMPU article that lists the statement from MS and both the statement AND the WMPU article show that Microsoft is in control, like I stated above. Thurrott went into panic mode to increase clicks to his site, plain and simple. I lost any respect for that man a long time ago. He either was too incompetent to read the statement, unable to understand what was written, or deliberately wrote a false article. Perhaps he only skimmed too quickly and misinterpreted, but a responsible journalist (which seems to be rare these days) makes sure of the facts before they portray the facts.

I agree that WMPU's interpretation appears to be truest to the source. It's also possible that Thurrott misinterpreted the statement because he has better and more accurate information himself however (I wouldn't be surprised).

For me the situation is as follows:

a)
I'm hesitant to believe anything released by MS' PR department, which is all WMPU has to go on. If it's not an engineer's or a high level executive's statement, the information is often worthless.

b)
I simply don't believe that MS has been able to negotiate a no strings attached, update whenever we want update policy with all carriers around the globe. I'm just not buying it. I do believe that MS will be able to update a LOT more through the store than they've previously been able to, but anything more needs to be proven to me before I'll believe it.

c)
So far, the general lack of information and the fact that MS remains very vague about everything doesn't make me very optimistic.

d)
It sounds too good to be true. Things that sound too good to be true usually are.

Admittedly, this is all my personal speculation based only on previous experience. I have no idea what MS are or aren't actually up to.

The world is going the opposite direction. Companies have figured out that such a tiny percent of customers and potential customers demand information, including even the most basic of operating instructions, that they can completely avoid the cost of providing it. Sure some will grumble, but in the end, even that doesn't effect sales if the competition is doing the same.

I know. Doesn't mean I have to like it. The biggest threat to consumer protections has always been the know-nothing consumer. We can thank the consumerisation of IT for that. Look at me... haven't reached half my time and already sounding like an old grouch.. ;-)

 

[920Walker]

I'll believe it when I see it, and not solely the first update. Hope it's true.

 

[tgp]

We have at least two claims from Microsoft about updates that we're now questioning whether or not they will actually happen:

1. All WP8 devices will be updated to W10M.
2. W10M will take updates out of the carriers' hands and Microsoft will be in control.

At the moment, both of these claims seem to be tenuous at best. I believe, however, that Microsoft has already technically fulfilled both of these promises with the Insider program. Even if nothing changes with official update channels from the current system, I don't know if we can truthfully say that Microsoft did not keep their promises. In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.

 

[desaideas1]

Since one of the last builds screwed up my Lumia 1020, I had to switch to an iPhone 5 on iOS 9. That whole operating system is SO boring and the UI is FLAT out garbage. I'm glad Microsoft had the whole Metro movement because it forced Joney Ive to screw up the entire iOS, and left Google to outsource UI/UX to disparate teams in Mountain View.

Yes, WP 8.1 had a magically unified UI/UX and it flowed like butter on hot pancakes. But it's still amazing that the Win10M build on my Lumia 1020 looks ridiculously gorgeous in comparison to the iPhone 5 (or 6+). Granted, for the past months we've been treated to a resuming and loading screen that drives you insane, but the current build has finally removed most of those screens.

So is Win10M RTM? I'd say it depends on your definition and understanding of how Microsoft is changing it's RTM process to be more lean and agile, reducing QA teams sitting on code that needs to be in the market and leveraging insiders to identify issues.

Honestly one of the biggest reasons why we're all pissed is that we don't even have semi-flagship hardware to test it on. I think those with a 930 might be having a pretty good run with the current build, and those rare individuals that actually use a 640XL etc.

The other aspect to understand about RTM in the "new" windows is that it alludes that an in place upgrade can happen without any major changes to the phone requiring a clean flash and reset nor will it suffer from that ridiculous performance degradation of previous builds. for Windows 10 (pc) I also thought that Microsoft couldn't hit their deadline, and for the most part they did. If I was running Win10 there would be a lot more polish and pizzazz added for users on desktops/higher end PC's and I'd get Cortana to have some more rad features (I rarely use it even though I want too) before releasing it...but hey 140 million and counting installs, getting ready to double that Mac OSX install base is not bad.

 

[a5cent]

We have at least two claims from Microsoft about updates that we're now questioning whether or not they will actually happen:

1. All WP8 devices will be updated to W10M.
2. W10M will take updates out of the carriers' hands and Microsoft will be in control.

At the moment, both of these claims seem to be tenuous at best. I believe, however, that Microsoft has already technically fulfilled both of these promises with the Insider program. Even if nothing changes with official update channels from the current system, I don't know if we can truthfully say that Microsoft did not keep their promises. In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.

Technically, agreed, but that would again be telling people what they want to hear and then letting them believe what they want to believe, rather than spelling out the facts clearly and concisely.

 

[tgp]

that would again be telling people what they want to hear and then letting them believe what they want to believe, rather than spelling out the facts clearly and concisely.

Yeah Microsoft would never do anything like that, would they? :wink:

 

[rhapdog]

In fact, I would wager a bet that Microsoft made both of these claims based on the Insider program, knowing that even if the official update system remains unchanged, they kept their word.

I understand where you are coming from here. Really, I do. However, I'd like to provide some perspective.

Before a person can say "it's the carriers that stop the updates," let's look at how it all works. First, the reason carriers have been in charge of the updates for WP in the past is because of the hoops Microsoft has had to jump through and agreements Microsoft has had to sign to get their phones to be carried by the carriers. It hasn't been that way in the rest of the world, just mainly in the US. Yeah, another US only exclusive. I'll bet the rest of the world is glad to have missed that one.

If Carriers would be able to stop W10M updates, then they could also stop Insider program updates. The fact is, they can't, because the app itself takes it out of the carrier's hands. What Microsoft has done with W10M is to change it in such a way that the update path no longer goes through the carrier.

Most of the world doesn't have the "carrier interference" issues as has plagued the US. Unlocked phones are sold, and you can use them on whatever carrier you choose. Updates are from the Manufacturer, or, more accurately, the person who has provided the particular OS. Apple provides updates for iOS, Samsung for their "flavor" of Android, LG for their "flavor" of Android, "Google" for their Android in the more pure form. In the case of Microsoft, the OS is the same and not "flavored" like Android, so Microsoft would be in charge of updates, and they are bound by an agreement with US carriers to only update when the carrier agrees to it.

Why is Android so fragmented? Because the manufacturer's each have their own flavor of Android, and those manufacturers are the ones responsible for updating the OS. They choose not to. It's not carrier interference in the rest of the world, it is manufacturer apathy. They are responsible for updating the OS because they modified the OS, which means it can't be updated by Google.

With W10M, there will be ONE OS, not a bunch of flavors for each manufacturer. They won't be able to tinker with it and add their own flair like they do now with Android. Since it will remain a pure, unfettered OS, Microsoft will be able to effect the upgrades.

But what about the carrier agreements in the US? Have you noticed what has happened? Microsoft has broken off with all US carriers except AT&T. AT&T has been the most cooperative. I think AT&T has agreed to Microsoft's terms here which is why they are being allowed to carry the Lumia 950. All carriers in the US have been informed by Microsoft that their agreement to upgrade any handsets under that carrier's control amends the agreement that once the phone is on W10M that the carrier relinquishes control of updates. That may make it difficult to get some US carriers to agree to upgrading to W10M, because those carriers want to sell you new phones, not extend the life of your old one.

My 2 cents according to my understanding of the industry. My understanding may or may not be exact, but I "believe" it makes sense, hence I "believe" it.

 

[feereless]

I agree and I will add this..

A lot of people don't understand that without the new UI android apps would not be able to be ported over. You HAVE to have your hamburger menu, because that is what is on IOS and android. You have to maintain some level of similarity between android, ios and wp10. IMO, 8.1 was very simplistic and different, and perhaps that is why no one wanted to try it, since they "wouldn't know what to do". So for those who don't want the new UI... think to yourself... would WP10 succeed if it was the same? Ok, I'll answer it for you... No. It would die and you will be left with zero support.

 

[wisedesi]

I have justed installed latest build on lumia 925 t-mobile and what a build. Works fast and fluide. Makes it feel like a new phone. I am really ready for this one. Till now I was trying on older lumia 520 and it was slow as hell(I have not tried the last build) but on 925 this thing is awesome. So, I would say it is ready to released for slow ring and to even, non insider people.

 

[stekar]

Because, to begin with, they were NOKIA lumia phones . . .

 

[theefman]

I agree and I will add this..

A lot of people don't understand that without the new UI android apps would not be able to be ported over. You HAVE to have your hamburger menu, because that is what is on IOS and android. You have to maintain some level of similarity between android, ios and wp10. IMO, 8.1 was very simplistic and different, and perhaps that is why no one wanted to try it, since they "wouldn't know what to do". So for those who don't want the new UI... think to yourself... would WP10 succeed if it was the same? Ok, I'll answer it for you... No. It would die and you will be left with zero support.

Nothing stopped devs implementing whatever UI they wanted on WP8. Netflix is a good example of an app that has a totally different UI to the native WP one that is consistent across devices. And even Microsoft's own Smartglass app has a hamburger menu even though it runs on WP8 and the same UI was included in the MS Health app. So the UI by itself shouldn't have been a barrier to porting apps but rather the extra work required to port the code itself. Now that MS has introduced their bridges feature devs can port their apps without MS having had to gut the UI and UX of the OS to suit those apps. And with no real sign that apps will be ported in any significant number it seems it was all for nothing anyway.

 

[Tactik]

More on topic, I think it is ready. It runs flawlessly on my 1020. Most of the big social media apps are there. The rest can follow shortly. If it runs this well on my 1020 can't wait to see how it runs on a 950 XL.

 

[feereless]

thats because both the OS and the bridge software is still in beta... no one wants to tinker with something that isnt finished.

 

[The Jimmy James]

The carriers need to be forced out. Totally.

They have NO BUSINESS in anything that happens on my phone. I pay them to transmit data, and that's all. They need to LEARN THEIR PLACE and then learn to be happy with what they get, and not try to angle for more.

BECAUSE THEY DESERVE NO MORE.

 

[fatclue_98]

The carriers need to be forced out. Totally.

They have NO BUSINESS in anything that happens on my phone. I pay them to transmit data, and that's all. They need to LEARN THEIR PLACE and then learn to be happy with what they get, and not try to angle for more.

BECAUSE THEY DESERVE NO MORE.

You're mostly correct but you need to understand that the carrier is responsible for providing service to millions of other users. If your device has the potential to disrupt service, they have a right to protect their interests as well.

 

[Mafiatounes]

W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.

 

[anon(9410778)]

W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.

Treating it as though its a finished OS and thinking of it as such is wrong. Constructive criticism is the whole point of the program and without them expressing their voices it would allow the OS to stagnate.

 

[michail71]

W10M looks nice and works nice on my 930, UI/UX can be polished a bit more with future updates like on the desktop/tablet version. W10(M) will be an OS in progress and will see enhancements based on feedback, unlike say W7 for instance. People talking about how buggy an insider build is or that it is not complete should stay away from the insider program simple as that.

For most of the regulars I don't think the complaints are about the bugs. We expect bugs. It's about the loss of synergy, loss of features, UI inconsistency and usability problems.