Nokia uses Android against Google.

[theefman]

I haven't seen any evidence that X apps could be transfered to an android device. Apps can only be bought through the Nokia store. It seems to me anyone that will want to upgrade from X will be starting over no matter what platform they choose.

Here you go, "75% of android apps will run without modification" which means they will be able to run the same apps when they switch to an android phone.
http://mynokiablog.com/2014/02/24/v...s-1m-apps-will-run-without-any-modifications/. Still see an upgrade path to WP?

 

[winrayjay99]

How Google operates Android is actually kind of brilliant. Android is a fully functional operating system that works ok on it's own, but a lot of what most people think of as Android is actually Google's proprietary GMS running on top of Android.

Microsoft needs to learn from this moving forward as they put their products and services (like Office) on competing platforms.

Sorry to say it but with Larry Page now being CEO, Google has become worse then when Eric Schmidt held the preverbal steering wheel at Google. They act more like a university than a business. Private owned space flights, self driving cars, Robots, and need I mention Google Glass! They are using search, YouTube, and Android (through ads of course). To fund their Science Projects or should I say experiments. Apple and Microsoft only do experiments if it is a product or Service they will sell (remember when surface was a touch screen Table experiment?). Google should be called Larry Page and Sergei Brin's research foundation. Google is looking more at the A.I. They make and not how they want to compete.





Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Tapatalk

 

[taymur]

I think its a smart tactic, but its very risky, but also I think that they are not stupid, and they are sure. i guess that msft will make sure the transition from nokia x to lumias must be smooth and effortless, which leads me to two options:

1) application in the nokia x store will be limited to what is available on the msft store (but you can still sideload apps that you need if you know how to do it)
2) msft will enable android apps to run on wp8 devices somehow. (I think this is more probable).
3) the hardware offering of the lumias will be much greater that the gap of apps

other than that I cant see why I would move from a nokia x to a lumia.

 

[Markham Ranja]

I like the Trojan Horse tactic. Nokia and MS FTW! Just shows where innovation and clever tactics can get you, hope it works out as planned. As an until death WP supporter, I approve of the Nokia X's and variants! Not that one small guys opinion matters much, but hope you guys feel similar.

This is not a Trojan Horse, more like a Trojan Jackass.

 

[Markham Ranja]

Lol. Not gonna happen.

That is exactly what people said about Nokia releasing an Android device. If that is possible, I don't see why this isn't. Look at the sale of Motorola - who would have predicted that Google would do that?

What next? MS releasing an Android runtime emulator for WPs? Wait and see.

 

[Markham Ranja]

Again, from what I've read the countries that will have the X will not have Nexus.

Like what? India has the Nexus 5 and Nexus 7, being sold through the Play Store direct from Google for approx 29K INR (cost of an S4 is 30, cost of an L925 is 26k).

 

[Markham Ranja]

Sorry to say it but with Larry Page now being CEO, Google has become worse then when Eric Schmidt held the preverbal steering wheel at Google. They act more like a university than a business. Private owned space flights, self driving cars, Robots, and need I mention Google Glass! They are using search, YouTube, and Android (through ads of course). To fund their Science Projects or should I say experiments. Apple and Microsoft only do experiments if it is a product or Service they will sell (remember when surface was a touch screen Table experiment?). Google should be called Larry Page and Sergei Brin's research foundation. Google is looking more at the A.I. They make and not how they want to compete.

And why do you have a problem with that? Google is the only company among these major firms looking outside their core business. I greatly admire how they're throwing money at things for the heck of it. Whether their projects succeed, or fail, there will be good for all. If they fail, we will have learned something. If they actually manage to sort out a feasible self-driving car, they've made my morning commute a hell of a lot easier.

 

[SnailUK]

This really has nothing to do with Nokia.

This is all about Microsoft.

Firstly, Microsoft need to make sure every service Google offer on Android, there is a Microsoft alternative.
Every Microsoft service on Android needs to be BETTER than the Google alternative.
Microsoft then needs to make sure the WP versions of all these apps is better on WP, than on Nokia X.
Microsoft need to make sure every feature of the Nokia X range is available on WP.

The problem is, even with all this, WP is still a worse upgrade path, because of the sheer quantity of apps available on Android, that aren't available on WP. And how many of the Android apps with WP versions are worse, or more expensive?

If Microsoft is putting this much hard work into Android, then what is the point of WP/Win RT? They are just duplicating effort. Why not just use the Nokia Android fork, whack that onto all the existing WP devices

 

[Bartdog]

What are these magical Microsoft services that will enthrall users of this phone and make them more likely to choose a WP later?

Personally I say we take off and nuke the entire Nokia x range from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Great movie, btw.

 

[rockstarzzz]

What does Windows Phone have that will make Phone X users jump to WP?

Phone X: Runs Android
Android: Runs Android
WP: Runs WP

Phone X: Runs 75% Android apps
Android: Runs 100% Android apps
WP: Runs 0% Android apps, has equivalent WP versions.

Phone X: Has Microsoft services
Android: Has Microsoft services better than WP and Google services
WP: Has Microsoft services worse than Android and NO Google services.

Phone X: is dirt cheap
Android: has 20 other options in same price range.
WP: Has 1 option in that price range.

Phone X: Is a Nokia phone and will lag after installing 20 apps (inferior RAM etc)
Android: Doesn't have laggy Nokia phones, has snappier options
WP: They have Nokia guys making their phones, may be laggy too!

 

[anony_mouse]

3-While this phone will support android apps Nokia will be pushing microsoft services, something android doesn't have.

Which Microsoft services will be available for the Nokia X, which are not available on Android?
Also, which Microsoft services are really attractive to customers? For most (all?) there are decent equivalents available, which I suspect are often more widely used.

 

[Nogitsune Micah]

It sounds like people for whatever reason want a Android based Windows phone....which just skeeves me to even think about, which begs me to wonder why people just dont go android then xD

Oh wait..."They don't want to be tracked by google and blah blah blah"

 

[snowmutt]

Yeah, this is a risky move. I appreciate businesses rolling with risks. Microsoft has made their money with software products that have been very consistent, so the average tech fan does not see how many risks MS has taken in the last 20 years. Bing, XBOX, dumping Win Mo, making their own hardware when they are so dependant on other companies are all examples.

I have adjusted my thinking on this a little. And I also have come full circle on another thing. I had thought that this device was one of the reasons MS bought Nokia's handset division. With Nokia having the X in the pipeline, I thought it was the signal that Nokia was going to branch out to Android after the Billion dollars a year exclusive contract with MS for WP devices was over. I thought they used it to force MS's hand. Now, after this announcement, it seems obvious I have to admit Nokia had MS rowing in the same direction as them with this thinking. It has MS written all over it- use Nokia's still strong name in developing markets to push it and plaster MS services on it.

However, I am in the corner of those that are just shaking their head. Because it LOOKS like WP UI, and it has MS services instead of Google, and we will not say the word "Android" out loud, consumers will jump to WP? HOW is that different in any way to a low end WP? Except in real world applications, it may not run as well? It just ..... doesn't... make.... sense. It is hurting my head trying to wrap my brain around it.

Oh yeah. That full circle thing? I am left pondering... If MS was okay with releasing the "X", and Nokia was happy with it's profitable asha series feature phones and billion dollar deal with MS that helped offset their reorganization losses, why did MS buy Nokia?

I think that Mr. Elop made a decision somewhere along the line to return with Nokia in tow to MS. I have never said or typed that until now. I do NOT think it was his original intent, honestly. I think he made the tough decisions to save the company he was CEO of. I really do. But I think by about year 2 of Nokia's relationship with MS, he started planting seeds and pulling strings to come back to MS as a conquring Hero. Nothing else makes sense. If MS was onboard with these Android phones and these were not the catalysts to buy Nokia, then something else had to be. MS had the best of both worlds with Nokia having an exclusive deal with them. No reason to make this deal unless inside forces were churning.

Something about that bothers me.

 

[k0de]

The only way I see this phone helping MSFT is that the option to developed for this device and deploy every where is available. That way if it does get a substantial amount of support from Android Developers those same apps could be port very easy to windows 8, WP8, WindowsRT. If that option is not available I think this phone is useless,

 

[rockstarzzz]

Yeah, this is a risky move. I appreciate businesses rolling with risks. Microsoft has made their money with software products that have been very consistent, so the average tech fan does not see how many risks MS has taken in the last 20 years. Bing, XBOX, dumping Win Mo, making their own hardware when they are so dependant on other companies are all examples.

I have adjusted my thinking on this a little. And I also have come full circle on another thing. I had thought that this device was one of the reasons MS bought Nokia's handset division. With Nokia having the X in the pipeline, I thought it was the signal that Nokia was going to branch out to Android after the Billion dollars a year exclusive contract with MS for WP devices was over. I thought they used it to force MS's hand. Now, after this announcement, it seems obvious I have to admit Nokia had MS rowing in the same direction as them with this thinking. It has MS written all over it- use Nokia's still strong name in developing markets to push it and plaster MS services on it.

However, I am in the corner of those that are just shaking their head. Because it LOOKS like WP UI, and it has MS services instead of Google, and we will not say the word "Android" out loud, consumers will jump to WP? HOW is that different in any way to a low end WP? Except in real world applications, it may not run as well? It just ..... doesn't... make.... sense. It is hurting my head trying to wrap my brain around it.

Oh yeah. That full circle thing? I am left pondering... If MS was okay with releasing the "X", and Nokia was happy with it's profitable asha series feature phones and billion dollar deal with MS that helped offset their reorganization losses, why did MS buy Nokia?

I think that Mr. Elop made a decision somewhere along the line to return with Nokia in tow to MS. I have never said or typed that until now. I do NOT think it was his original intent, honestly. I think he made the tough decisions to save the company he was CEO of. I really do. But I think by about year 2 of Nokia's relationship with MS, he started planting seeds and pulling strings to come back to MS as a conquring Hero. Nothing else makes sense. If MS was onboard with these Android phones and these were not the catalysts to buy Nokia, then something else had to be. MS had the best of both worlds with Nokia having an exclusive deal with them. No reason to make this deal unless inside forces were churning.

Something about that bothers me.

Are you supporting the Trojan horse Elop theory then?

I see exactly where you are coming from. I am struggling to find an answer to what's baffling you too. No one on the front page or here has touched that very fact. How on earth is this better than nurturing low end WP? If MS knew it is going to buy Nokia anyway, why the open support to Android? Shouldn't they just concentrate on using same hardware and slapping WP8.1 on it? Okay, Nokia can't make WP for free, has to pay some sort of money (which I thought wasn't true, as licensing would be waved under their mutual contract) but when Microsoft makes their own handsets, they don't pay a penny to put WP8.1 on it.

If the app argument is true, I still don't see how Nokia is going to have lets say BBM and WP8.1 won't or Facebook or Twitter or Path or Whatsapp or Angry birds and WP8.1 wont?

The only reason I am inclining towards the app argument is because Nokia X does have Plant vs Zombies 2 and BBM on it and WP yet doesn't. But I guess by the time Nokia X hits the market and WP8.1 is announced we will see it come with those apps and more. So what's the catch?

 

[theefman]

Are you supporting the Trojan horse Elop theory then?

I see exactly where you are coming from. I am struggling to find an answer to what's baffling you too. No one on the front page or here has touched that very fact. How on earth is this better than nurturing low end WP?

No one will explain it because they cant, all they are doing is quoting the company line "microsoft knows what its doing, they're on board, you dont get it" but no one can give a clear answer on how this will lead to WP benefiting. That should tell you that basically nobody knows anything and they are just towing the line, maybe wpcentral is up for acquisition by Microsoft?

 

[dznk]

No one will explain it because they cant, all they are doing is quoting the company line "microsoft knows what its doing, they're on board, you dont get it" but no one can give a clear answer on how this will lead to WP benefiting. That should tell you that basically nobody knows anything and they are just towing the line, maybe wpcentral is up for acquisition by Microsoft?

I would think that's because the idea behind the X range isn't to do with specifically benefiting WP. That's not it's aim as far as I'm aware.

I posted most of the following in a different thread earlier, but I'll post some of it here as it's relevant:

The X range is really there to push Microsoft's services (Skype, OneDrive, Bing etc) to people who would have otherwise bought some other low end Android device and would have probably not been presented with these services. You have to remember that they are aiming for the 'emerging markets' with this phone. It's not meant to replace anyones current Smartphone. It's to get people into the Smartphone world and immediately seeing and using Microsoft's and Nokia's services. Even if they move from an X to a higher end Android phone with the Google services, at least those users would know of and may well want to continue using those Microsoft services, even on a non WP smartphone. Microsoft has most of it's apps on other competing platforms now. They want users even if they don't use WP at all.

I know a few people have mentioned how the X's tile interface will encourage them to upgrade to a 'better' tiled experience at a later date on WP, but I personally don't buy into the 'upgrade path' from X to WP. In fact there's more of a chance that they will upgrade from X to Android due to knowing that any of the apps they currently use on the X will be on a higher end Android phone.

I do think some people are looking into this a bit too much, but at the end of the day it's a Nokia, that is running Android. But with it being a low end device, not available in all countries, and with it running a forked verison of Android, it shouldn't be much for us WP users to be concerned about in my opinion (well I hope not anyway). I'm still not keen on it though.

Personally though, I would have liked for them to have not released this phone. They should have waited until WP8.1 is released with lower specs and on-screen nav buttons and let Nokia and OEM's bring out even cheaper devices than the 520 but with them obviously running WP. How this will all work out will be interesting to see. Even Nokia/Microsoft can't be sure of the X ranges effect surely. Bit too much of a gamble for my liking, but I don't think it will harm WP as much as it may appear it might do at the moment.

 

[radmanvr]

Im still not seeing any concrete argument, is curiosity the only reason they would switch, and what will they be curious about when they use android apps exclusively?

I'm not quite sure really. I do not live in an emerging market nor do I buy low end full featured phones but regardless Microsoft making money of WP or Nokia X, its still their money. From a business perspective this is excellent but I wonder where does it leave WP users like me.

 

[theefman]

I would think that's because the idea behind the X range isn't to do with specifically benefiting WP. That's not it's aim as far as I'm aware.

I posted most of the following in a different thread earlier, but I'll post some of it here as it's relevant:

Snip:

I can accept your argument but there are two things to consider: Microsoft services arent actually that good compared to google, are they? Especially in the markets they will be targeting. Is bing good enough to take on google in those markets? Is Skype a real competitor to google hangouts? What is their replacement for youtube (basically none). The only services that may compare favourably are Outlook and OneDrive but everything else is done better by google so unless the expectation is that these users wont every experience competing services the plan is flawed from the beginning.

There's also the fact that this will basically be a Microsoft phone that does not run their OS and that cant be helpful for WP and what doesnt help WP hurts it. There's also another point I was reminded of on Liveside, MS will still be taking the Asha line over, if only initially so that is 2 other competing platforms for MS to manage apart from WP. That will undoubtedly take away resources from WP and that will definitely not be positive for the platform. When you put it all together I just dont see the reason for going down this path.

I'm not quite sure really. I do not live in an emerging market nor do I buy low end full featured phones but regardless Microsoft making money of WP or Nokia X, its still their money. From a business perspective this is excellent but I wonder where does it leave WP users like me.

Well Microsoft makes money from a lot of things but I cant think of one where it requires them to compete against themselves and potentially harm their progress in a sector that is recognised as the fastest growing segment of tech today.

 

[snowmutt]

Are you supporting the Trojan horse Elop theory then?

Too negative. I can't bring myself that far along. Mr. Elop was hired by the Nokia board when they knew full well he was in favor of both scraping Symbian and killing MEEGO. They had too, because the "burning platform memo" was written within months of his hiring. They knew he saw no chance of staying competitive with all the layers of infighting, competing for R&D money, and all the upkeep and updates of the existing software while producing new hardware. He never once waivered.

He did go to Google about Android, but they wouldn't do anything special for Nokia, so he walked. He approached BlackBerry about using BB07. Microsoft needed Nokia, and cut them a sweet deal.

I truly feel that at the beggining, Mr. Elop wanted Nokia to regain it's throne as top dog. I do. But, somewhere that cozy relationship with MS and disappointing sales for Nokia WP, all the while Nokia's mapping tech and business solutions sodtware were growing, just resulted in his decision to pursue the nuclear option.

I just can't shake it, this was manuvered by Mr. Elop. I just wonder if we will ever get the whole story.