Rant : What is your Plan B?

[N_LaRUE]

Very few people love Windows. They use it because they must. Many depend on tech savvy friends and/or family members to help maintain and administer their Windows PC environments, and those PC's are the centerpiece and standard bearer of MS' ecosystem.

If left to fend for themselves, most people would prefer an environment without Windows PCs, as most consider iOS and Android tablets and smartphones simpler (which they are, as they are appliances rather than full fledged computers).

This is the most true statement written in a long time.

If you're a person who likes computers than Windows is fine, if you're really a nerd than you're using Linux. Thing is, Windows is not, I repeat, not user friendly for the modern era.

It's gotten better but there are lots of things that still make it a complete PITA to use. If you're not tech savvy Windows really isn't something the average consumer would want to use. That's very true.

Being a person who's used it for a very long time and have helped countless people with problems and still have issues of my own with W10, I can definitely say from a user friendly aspect, Windows still has a long way to go.

Keep in mind I'm talking W10 PC here, not mobile. Unfortunately, lots of people are going to conflate the two together.

 

[a5cent]

Apple survived with the same market share as WP but for PC a long, long time... so I think it's possible that Microsoft continue...

Nope. MS had to bail Apple out. Apple would have gone bankrupt otherwise, so Apple didn't actually survive.

MS is not in the same situation Apple was in back then, as MS can theoretically use their enterprise profits to subsidize their consumer efforts indefinitely, but capitalism doesn't allow that to happen in practice.

In other ways, the situation for MS is even tougher then it was for the struggling Apple back then, as consumer computing companies can no longer just sell a box-with-an-OS and forget about it. Along with that box, companies must now also deliver an ever evolving online ecosystem, despite costing billions to maintain, annually, long after the device was sold.

That's not an effort MS will sustain just for the fun of it. MS will exit the consumer market before it becomes futile and too costly, and the decisions MS makes today will determine whether that happens or not.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Nope. MS had to bail Apple out. Apple would have gone bankrupt otherwise, so Apple didn't actually survive.

I'd forgotten about that, I think a lot of people do. There almost wasn't an Apple at one point.

Hopefully MS came out with some profit from that.

Funny how perception gets distorted over time.

 

[Queen Kong1]

If Google security is so bad why do Msoft bring so many of their Apps over to Android??? ..One drive got an update but WM10 later in year..

 

[Dan_ATX]

Thing is, Windows is not, I repeat, not user friendly for the modern era.

I find it interesting that you say that. As we (I build and deploy the OS images) rollout Windows 10 the feedback we are getting from our users is that they are finding Windows 10 to be easier to use and the ones that are set in their ways can still litter their desktops with icons. We have had some (by some I mean 3) users decide they wanted to switch to Mac because macs are easier. They have had far more difficulty using their Macs in an enterprise environment and kept asking lots of basic questions on how to actually use their Mac. But that's desktops and we're really talking mobile here. I have a had a handful of users at work buy a Windows phone. Surprised they ended up getting one (I never see sales people at phone store push them), but they did mention how much they liked it and the live tiles. iOS and Android are so entrenched that I don't see Windows phones ever grabbing a third of the market or more, at least in the US. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Going back to Apple there was a time they had a miniscule part of the desktop market (almost died off) and yet applications were developed for them so they remained viable (except for gamers). I can see the same holding true for Windows phones so long as the apps they have make the platform usable.

If push came to shove I'd go iOS over Android any day, but I currently have a Lumia 950 so I'm not leaving anytime soon. I do really wish car manufactures or rather the entertainment system in a car had support for Windows. I have a new car set to arrive in June but its StarLink app only works on Android and iOS, bummer. At least there's Bluetooth which makes my phone usable in the car.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I find it interesting that you say that. As we (I build and deploy the OS images) rollout Windows 10 the feedback we are getting from our users is that they are finding Windows 10 to be easier to use and the ones that are set in their ways can still litter their desktops with icons. We have had some (by some I mean 3) users decide they wanted to switch to Mac because macs are easier. They have had far more difficulty using their Macs in an enterprise environment and kept asking lots of basic questions on how to actually use their Mac. But that's desktops and we're really talking mobile here. I have a had a handful of users at work buy a Windows phone. Surprised they ended up getting one (I never see sales people at phone store push them), but they did mention how much they liked it and the live tiles. iOS and Android are so entrenched that I don't see Windows phones ever grabbing a third of the market or more, at least in the US. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Going back to Apple there was a time they had a miniscule part of the desktop market (almost died off) and yet applications were developed for them so they remained viable (except for gamers). I can see the same holding true for Windows phones so long as the apps they have make the platform usable.

If push came to shove I'd go iOS over Android any day, but I currently have a Lumia 950 so I'm not leaving anytime soon. I do really wish car manufactures or rather the entertainment system in a car had support for Windows. I have a new car set to arrive in June but its StarLink app only works on Android and iOS, bummer. At least there's Bluetooth which makes my phone usable in the car.

That's a slightly incorrect comparison. You're talking work environment, where people typically have little to no choice versus consumer choice. Most people who work with Windows at work see it as nothing more than a tool to get work done. There's a lot of people who may own a laptop at home but it might not be Windows on it and it may not get used as much as it used to.

You missed the bit at the end... 'modern era'. People who know Windows will keep using W10 like they used W95... as it's closer to it than W8 or W8.1 was. I've used Windows from 3.1.

My point is, Windows in general, for the modern era is still not much of a leap from W95 for most people. People want things to just work and get things done. Windows is not really that easy of a system to use it takes getting to know it and I've run into many many many people who simply have no clue outside of clicking an icon to run software on Windows and things beyond that is too hard. But those same people will easily use their smartphone for different things.

That was my point. We can argue that Windows is more than a smartphone but that's not the point. The ease of use is the most important aspect.

I'll also point out I wasn't comparing Apple in there anywhere. I don't see Apple being any better on desktop applications. I've always seen it as awkward but that's coming from a Windows perspective.

 

[teddystiles]

Do the rest of you have a Plan B?

You know what? Microsoft has a Plan B. I can't imagine that Satya, with the relative success of the Surface line, an overwhelming PC marketshare, and a goal of 1 billion Windows 10 devices, is really planning the demise of their entire consumer line, despite what some on this thread have said. With Panay's division, Continuum, and bots, I think they have proven that they are interested in being more than just a cloud utility company.

Microsoft's plan B might be a partnership with Apple (moonshot) or it might be an Android fork or it might be skins and apps. I'm not sure. But if my Plan A doesn't work out (Windows 10 Mobile continues on), then Microsoft's Plan A won't be working out, and they'll be implementing their Plan B. In that case, I'll buy the most advanced Plan A device I can, and live on it for as long as I can (2 years? 4?), and then we'll see how they're Plan B is going, and I'll jump over there if I can.

Ever since Mac painted me as a boring, chubby, pasty white guy stuffed into a cheap suit (admittedly I am a few of those things), and poked fun at me with misleading information, I've been an extremely emotional techie. They may have eventually abandoned that campaign, but their smug users never have. I can't imagine ever giving Apple a single cent of my hard-earned money unless and until they bury the hatchet with Microsoft. Google is worse, because I can't imagine paying them for the privilege of being turned into one of their own products that they turn around and sell to advertisers. Also: Windows Phone 8 YouTube app. Evil.

 

[rromerof]

It just amazes me how people accept both of these crappy OS's.

Compared to Windows 10 Mobile, you cannot be serious. I haven't seen such a bad OS like W10M, It's just incredible how MSFT keeps it alive.

 

[Panzer105]

I have to 100% disagree with Windows 10 being not user friendly. It's just as easy to use as OS X. I have A Surface Pro 3 and and a mid level Android tablet running the latest stable Android version. Windows 10 is MUCH easier to use and I support all three systems at work. OS X is no easier or harder to use than Windows 10.

 

[LondonLumia]

Why should I need a plan B? It's a phone, a piece of plastic I replace every 24 months, I shouldn't need to - and don't - draw up contingency plans should a few people call it 'dead'.

 

[anon(8532178)]

Sadly my plan B started switched to Android at end of last year. But thinking of getting a Lumia 950 XL.

Posted via the Windows Central App for Android (from my Nexus 5x or LG V10)

 

[azteca911]

My plan b is to get a flip phone. I can live without smartphones.

 

[DallasXanadu]

I'm wondering what my Plan B for Microsoft is in general (for instance, I have to browse these forums with Firefox, because with Edge, about every fifth letter I type doesn't register for some reason). Monday, my Zune desktop software "updated", thereby rendering my 3 Zune devices basically worthless. Today I got an email saying my OneDrive storage will be reduced to 5GB, and that the 15GB of camera roll bonus is going away. I've been entrenched in the MS ecosystem for many years, not out of blind loyalty, but because it's what has worked best for me. Not so much anymore. I've dabbled with Apple and have had a couple of Android tablets. They were terrible. I just read an article about how many people are still using flip phones. Maybe I'll join them.

 

[Per Kjellqvist]

Okay Per... apparently you're not the only one who completely misunderstood what I was saying, so sorry for that. Lets break this down...

Apple is perceived as the company who's products "just work". Whether that's objectively true or not doesn't matter because perception "is" reality), while Google is the entity who provides products and services that are cheap (the stuff anybody can afford, because nobody can beat "ad supported and free")....

Very few people love Windows. They use it because they must. If left to fend for themselves, most people would prefer an environment without Windows PCs, as most consider iOS and Android tablets and smartphones simpler (which they are, as they are appliances rather than full fledged computers)...

Specifically in regard to WP and W10M, MS has not provided anything which a majority of users would consider unique and/or exciting...

Thanks for your clarification a5.

You are basically trying argue that MS might as well give up on mobile because: 1) Apple is perceived as the company who's products "just work", 2) Google offers cheap or free ad supported products, 3) W10M has nothing unique to offer, 4) The public wants dumbed down mobile solutions, and 5) The vast majority (close to 300 million Windows 10 users + all other flavours of Windows) use it only because they have to.

Again, I have to say that I disagree with most of your and Mr. Thurrott's assumptions. Instead I would argue that Microsoft has a lot in their favour for the foreseeable future:

1) As you say, Apple is "perceived" as selling easy to use products. This was true 10 years ago, but no longer. Instead, as I stated earlier they could be pushing themselves into a corner where simplicity is starting to make their product too constrictive and often annoying to use because they lack some even basic functionality. This is a great opportunity for Microsoft, W10 and W10M are not only just as easy to use as any other OS's, but also far more functional.

2) The public is slowly starting to understand how Google makes its money, and importantly how scattered their mobile offering is. They have not yet indicated any clear path as to where they plan to go with Android and Chrome. This is a great opportunity for Microsoft. They take privacy very seriously (a must since they aim for both corporate and private clients), they have a clear path for their OS strategy and they have already reached their first goal in their path to one OS for all devices.

3) W10M certainly has something unique to offer. A future proof mobile OS which is not only integrated with their desktop offering, but actually using the core. The lines between phones, tablets, and laptops are getting increasingly thinner, and why would you not want to have a mobile device that can connect to a big screen and function just like a computer if it was possible. This is another great opportunity for Microsoft which is more than clear to them.

4) The whole and complete public does not want dumbed down solutions, and as mobile devices become increasingly more powerful and possible to use more like computers (for those that so wish) I think the ratio of people who want more than just a "simple appliance" will rapidly increase. Again, a great opportunity for Microsoft.

5) If the vast majority of people who use Windows do so because they have to, then why are many reluctant to move on from Windows 7 - and actively told not to by industry pundits like Paul Thurrott - when W10 is so much more fun to use. You used the word "perception", and that is what this boils down to. Many people (and the media) have the "perception" that Windows is a boring and complicated workhorse. On an objective level that is simply not true, which should be seen as yet another opportunity for Microsoft. Perceptions are not eternally static.

Sustaining a competitive software ecosystem requires that MS extracts from the market an amount of money that is at least somewhat comparable to that of their competitors. MS is nowhere close to that point.

I think it is fair to say that MS is doing well enough that we don't have to worry about their budgeting and their knowledge of fundamental economics.

And signing off I would like to point out that there are no battles and no war going on here. It is not about all or nothing. Microsoft is a very successful technology company, and their mobile offerings only amount to a small part of their total portfolio.

 

[rromerof]

It will be better to destroy every single smartphone I own and, after that, I will start to produce beer... Awh Yeah!!

 

[rkarolak]

I'm not sure I understand your hatred for Google. Microsoft and Apple aren't any more or less good or "evil".

With that said, I feel like all your "cons" list would be addressed by an Android device more than an Apple one.

I ultimately moved to an Android phone (Sony Xpetia Z1C) after my Lumia 1020. Microsoft's apps in general work well on Android. From my experience, if anything, iOS is the most restrictive in customization, service choices, and lock in.

Each to their own though.

 

[rkarolak]

I won't go back to Android.
At the beginning of the year I made the mistake to try Xperia M4 with 5.0 Lollipop. Couldn't handle it more than 2 months, got pissed off and disappointed, and went back to my Lumia 640. Yes, Android is full of apps, but I'm pissed off because of the ****ty bloatware you can't remove. You can't rely on any update policy, no matter of the manufacturer, unless you've the highest priced device. And the system cannot take full advantage of the hardware. It's like a big new shiny pool, with almost no water. For me personally Android is a closed page - I won't go back.

To be fair, as an Xperia user I feel like Sony does poor job at optimizing Android with their phones. Probably worse than most other manufactures.

I flashed a custom ROM, however, and the performance was dramatically better.

 

[Pacus1x]

I always plan to move on, now i have my new shinny Motorola X Play... and for some reason always end up using the humble 640. So, no plan B for me...

 

[Mike Semblance]

If Windows 10 mobile (as you call it ) or Windows 10 on ARM were to die, I guess I would have to wait for Windows 10 x64 phone to come out. Prolly by the time I'm 18, it would be ready. I don't really like x64, with all its legacy support, command line, virus vulnerabilities and old school layout, but what else could I do? never used an iphone or a droid, so it would be too foreign to me, and wouldn't fit into my nice Microsoft ecosystem.

My 950XL pairs up nicely with my Kangaroo Pro and my Microsoft wireless display adapter, I guess the 950XL would still work, but no new apps, huh? Like peeps with RT devices. oh well, sad

So yeah, Windows Phone x64 in 2020, that's my Plan B.

 

[mgkole]

Well, for me it would be android. I would have microsoft apps in some form, but the most important thing - i would have variety of phones to choose from. iPhone is too expensive for me.