Sad and true...Tom Warren giving up on WP

[anon(8532178)]

Because excellent software? People can hate on Apple all they want it doesn't make their products less amazing. Both hardware and software wise Apple has awesome products, they just work no questions asked. No force closes no memory shortages causing app crashes nothing it just works. I just came back to Windows Phone from two years of being on iOS I had both the iPhone 5 and 5s, and hand to my heart throughout those two years not ONCE did I have any issues. I'm not saying they're perfect because no software is, what I'm saying is the failure/error rate in Apple products is by far the lowest of all ecosystems and that is the result of an extremely locked down environment. The downside to that is that the experience can start to get pretty boring. Precisely the reason I came back to WP. /rant

Yeah I agree unfortunately that's one thing I like about Apple as well. Wish Microsoft can have this skill they're just to slow and afraid.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Good god... how many freaking apps does a person need?? People need an app to flush their ****ter...and if the official app is not available on WP, than it's a no go! I've been using WP since WP7 was released, and I've never had more than a handful of apps on my phone... a weather app, news, mint, a couple others, and that's it. I'm so sick of hearing about apps. Use the damn mobile website instead! 99% of the time it's a better experience than an app anyway.

Sweet mercy. Folks say "just use the browser" here too?

LOL!

 

[Tre Lawrence]

I've never understood why an app is needed for all these websites. Apps for BBC News, BBC Weather, BBC Sport, BBC This, BBC That, BBC Other... Just browse the website!

Of course, what do I know?! I'm not an app-monster, I have just a smattering installed, none of them linked to websites.

In a lot of cases (not all), a dedicated app might provide more functionality than a website.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Maybe I'm funny about this - but I don't see the lack of apps as Microsoft's problem. I see it as the app developer's problem. If I want an app on my phone, and it's not there, I complain to the app developer - not the phone maker. Blaming Microsoft for the lack of apps is like blaming your car manufacturer for potholes in the road. If I want Amazon Music on my Windows Phone, I damn well better be complaining to Amazon. We the customers have to demonstrate a demand for the app and we have to make sure the people who nominally make the app *know* we want it.

It's not like Microsoft doesn't make their tools available for free (Visual Studio Community Edition). The two factors that contribute to a lack of apps are demand and bias. If they are biased against Microsoft, then they won't see a need to develop in the first place; and if we don't demand the app developer make a Windows Phone app, they won't know that their bias is incorrect.

Microsoft is ultimately responsible for its own ecosystem. It (Microsoft) has the most to lose if its ecosystem is lacking.

No, it can't hurt to encourage developers to come aboard, but a lack of apps -- perceived or real -- hurts MSFT.

 

[Luisraul924]

Yeah I agree unfortunately that's one thing I like about Apple as well. Wish Microsoft can have this skill they're just to slow and afraid.

I guess I'm one of the last few that firmly believes that Microsoft knows what they're doing. They have this skill look at the Surface Pro 3 and Xbox One both are Microsoft hardware and both are of top notch quality. Microsoft just took over the Lumia series just wait until the first official Microsoft Lumia I can guarantee that it'll be an amazing piece of hardware.

 

[Tre Lawrence]

Slowly but surely.

I think if MSFT stays the course, and doesn't deviate from NATIVE development, things will be okay eventually.

 

[Jabid21]

When speaking of Microsoft's missteps, there are numerous valid points made by Tom Warren. Microsoft doesn't seem to listen; and if they do, they are too slow to deliver. The reasons to stick with Windows Phone for the vocal few has diminished.
1. Apps are lacking in polish and features. In some cases, lack of available API and OS limitations are holding back apps from unleashing their full potential and Microsoft is to blame for that not just the developers.
2. Microsoft's own apps are better on competitors' OS than their own. It comes back to point 1 for watered down apps. If the plain audience can see Microsoft is struggling with making apps better on its own platform, developers definitely know the OS is lacking somehow.
3. Lack of a flagship device for this year is a major problem too. Doesn't matter why a device isn't being released or if Microsoft is waiting for Windows 10 to arrive; if the WP 8.X devices are eligible of being updated to Windows 10, there is little excuse of not releasing a phone. Actually, they are too heavily invested in going for the low end market that enthusiasts looking for a premium experience are missing out and they are losing their patience.
4. One more misstep that many don't notice but I personally find baffling is that Microsoft tend to roll out and cater to the US customers in terms of service and core features of the OS; however they are releasing new hardware that are optimized, pushed for the European and Asian markets with little to no support for American 3G and LTE bands. Instead, they are trying to sell mid-range devices as carrier exclusives. That is just plain stupid.
I don't say this as a hater, I have been a regular Windows Phone user since the WM 6.1 days but Microsoft is now testing the patience of their most loyal fans. All in all, I wish Microsoft the best as an exodus is certainly underway, whether we like it or not.

 

[mayconvert]

lol apps on windows ARE worse than using the web browser.
This is the lamest argument I see all WP user use to validate their WP purchase.
My bank app lets me deposit checks using the camera. My bank doesn't have an app on WP and point blank told me, "Not Interested in Developing for WP platform."
The reason you have 5 apps is because you don't have any to start with.
I am pretty minimal when it comes to apps, I don't use fart apps or ignorant crap like that, but I still have around 25 apps installed on my iPhone 6+ and Note 4. My WP collects dust and thats about all its good for.

And then there is this other thing where WP users say there is other apps that do kind of the same thing. just use it....
WP will go nowhere without Official name brand apps. it will stay at its current 1% market share and go no further.

 

[Luisraul924]

When speaking of Microsoft's missteps, there are numerous valid points made by Tom Warren. Microsoft doesn't seem to listen; and if they do, they are too slow to deliver. The reasons to stick with Windows Phone for the vocal few has diminished.
1. Apps are lacking in polish and features. In some cases, lack of available API and OS limitations are holding back apps from unleashing their full potential and Microsoft is to blame for that not just the developers.
2. Microsoft's own apps are better on competitors' OS than their own. It comes back to point 1 for watered down apps. If the plain audience can see Microsoft is struggling with making apps better on its own platform, developers definitely know the OS is lacking somehow.
3. Lack of a flagship device for this year is a major problem too. Doesn't matter why a device isn't being released or if Microsoft is waiting for Windows 10 to arrive; if the WP 8.X devices are eligible of being updated to Windows 10, there is little excuse of not releasing a phone. Actually, they are too heavily invested in going for the low end market that enthusiasts looking for a premium experience are missing out and they are losing their patience.
4. One more misstep that many don't notice but I personally find baffling is that Microsoft tend to roll out and cater to the US customers in terms of service and core features of the OS; however they are releasing new hardware that are optimized, pushed for the European and Asian markets with little to no support for American 3G and LTE bands. Instead, they are trying to sell mid-range devices as carrier exclusives. That is just plain stupid.
I don't say this as a hater, I have been a regular Windows Phone user since the WM 6.1 days but Microsoft is now testing the patience of their most loyal fans. All in all, I wish Microsoft the best as an exodus is certainly underway, whether we like it or not.

Let people leave. They'll either go to Android or iOS (obviously) and I support iOS hell I recommend it even it's a great OS. Android however, will never have the finesse that WP and iOS have because of open source. Without rooting and such Android straight sucks. OEMs junk their devices too much; a device doesn't have 3 gigs of RAM when the OS+OEM skin takes up 2.5. If going Android get a nexus device but even then try to avoid it. I get the feeling that whether or not WP fails Microsoft will continue with Lumia as their version of Google's Nexus line of devices. One flagship Lumia once a year with a small peppering of any OEMs that choose to make phones with W10 as it will presumably remain free for small form factors.

 

[Noahma]

I wonder what's going on. This week we've had Ed Bott and Tom Warren saying they're ditching WP and, on Windows Weekly yesterday, Thurrott and MJF gave a virtual epitaph for WP. None of them have reported even rumors that MSFT is dropping WP but they must be hearing something (vague hints). Of course, you could say that MSFT has been screaming that WP is dead recently by:

1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
2. Talking about services more than platforms
3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target

Every year around this time, the same stuff pops up. "woe is me, windows phone is dying" I will agree, its not growing as it should. There are hurdles to leap through, and its a long fight not a quick one shot win.

1. Releasing apps for all their services on iOS and Android
This is good business sense, have your product EVERYWHERE, that way there is no possible way to miss potential customers. Hell I bet Microsoft would release the apps for connected refrigerators too if it has the choice to at this point. Microsoft did not restrict themselves to a specific set of hardware when they first released DOS and Windows like a fruit named company did, and see what it did for their company. Google as well released products that were accessible from just about every conceivable area, and they are now market leader in their respective fields.
2. Talking about services more than platforms
This again, is good business sense, get people enrolled in your services to keep them tied to your company, and have a steady income. Nothing scary there, just some smart thinking.
3. Removing the Metro UI from Windows
They are NOT removing the modern UI, it is transforming on desktop to fit the needs of a desktop computer. They learned the hard way that you cannot design an OS that is touch first and expect people to use it with a mouse and keyboard. The modern UI is great for touch, tablets etc. but is just plain clunky with a mouse and keyboard. So they are customizing the UI to the device its on. Desktop is a Desktop focused UI with the modern UI modified to work within the new start menu. The Tablet UI will be just that Modern UI with a touch focus, and apparently it is being modified and merged with the phone UI to the point of having one SKU with the underpinnings the same to allow for universal apps.

4. Adding Android as a Visual Studio 2015 target
Again, good business decision to go after where the customers are. get a hook in them, give the developers the tools to write for one platform, and make it easier to move that same code to another platform, IE make it easier for those developing for another platform to develop for your platform.

Just because two tech journalists switch platforms does not mean the world is coming to an end. That's 2 people out of 7-8-9 million windows phone devices sold in a year that saw only a couple new devices?
here is a pretty good article recap of last quarter
Windows Phone Market Share Strong Last Quarter - Clinton Fitch

Microsoft said a couple years ago that they are in it for the long haul, this is not a battle that will be won in a quick decisive stroke, but a long drawn out fight.

I personally feel that Windows phone is starting to mature. I am absolutely in love with my Lumia 830, and the 920 before that. The platform has probably THE best integration I have seen when it comes to OS's. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon, I just love the OS too much. I got bored with IOS, and I never liked my Android devices before that.

sure Microsoft dropped the ball with McLaren, They were counting on it having a new technology that did not pan out the way they wished, and they should have had a plan B in place for this very situation. I really am thinking that's where they came with the "affordable flagship" name for the 830, it IS the plan B (not good enough Microsoft). Lets just hope they are cooking up some good stuff for next year. If previous quotes from Microsoft's exec. are evidence, it might be.

 

[mdau]

At least i have all the apps i need, and the most important thing for me is the WP UI which is never boring like iOS which i also think its of top quality. To date most people who keep complaining about windows phone have only one reason, and its the app gap. If you have a mercedes benz and you start focusing on it cons, you'll never see it as a perfect car for you, and of course nothing is. But this doesnt mean that it is not one of the best cars, at least for others. Some will love BMW and others Porsche etc. It is the same with mobile OS, its down to personal preferences.
I have used android and blackberry before WP. My sister and brother have iphones and ipads, so i got a chance to play with them. I think iOS is very good BUT boring after only a few hours. Android is also good but again the UI isnt pleasing enough for me. I enjoy my windows phone a lot, cant stop staring at the live tiles, simple and fluid, affordable. I know its not perfect but one thing that never bothered me its the app gap. I have all the apps i need, news apps, social, sports, weather, games etc. Thanks candy crash saga is here but i used sweet crush before its arrival.

Despite loving WP this much, i will never try to spread and exaggerating the bad side of Android and iOS just because i dont use or like them. I will just try to spread the good side as well as the cons someone will face if he joined WP. So people stop exaggerating the deficiencies within the windows phone OS

 

[LumiaWorld]

I actually do not have any problem with Windows Phone when it comes to apps... WP has all the basic apps that I need - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Viber, WeChat, Vine etc. Actually, most of the people here (Philippines) are not using a ton of apps... What we use the most are just the basic apps... Snapchat is not even popular here.

I think this app problem that Tom Warren is saying is only applicable to first world countries... Countries wherein WP is not that popular... So I think Microsoft should not worry about it too much.

 

[LumiaWorld]

But still, there is no denying on the fact that Microsoft has been so SLOWWWWW when it comes to Windows Phone.

 

[matt john2]

What about the hardware? I think Microsoft is also lacking features on their release. I think they should start adding features like:

-Fingerprint scanner for faster access.
-Onboard DAC/headphone Amp, who doesn't want better sounding phone?
- two front facing speakers.
-waterproofing



In my personal understanding, Microsoft really lacks on listening to their own consumers, they are more focused on future products instead of balancing their attention in present and future products, look at their latest phone releases, it really sucks. They have a lot of past research that are left behind and forgotten, what a waste of time and money. In years of using windows phone, I actually haven't seen any perfected phone yet, so disappointing.

 

[Loc Ngo]

What about the hardware? I think Microsoft is also lacking features on their release. I think they should start adding features like:

-Fingerprint scanner for faster access.
-Onboard DAC/headphone Amp, who doesn't want better sounding phone?
- two front facing speakers.
-waterproofing



In my personal understanding, Microsoft really lacks on listening to their own consumers, they are more focused on future products instead of balancing their attention in present and future products, look at their latest phone releases, it really sucks. They have a lot of past research that are left behind and forgotten, what a waste of time and money. In years of using windows phone, I actually haven't seen any perfected phone yet, so disappointing.

How about glance, clear black, pureview,...? Their latest phone releases are all low end. What would you expect?
If they release a phone with all the features possible then the price would be insane. By then, may I ask you to support MS buy buying such device? No, because there is a good chance that you will be among the very first people to whine about the price.

 

[matt john2]

How about glance, clear black, pureview,...? Their latest phone releases are all low end. What would you expect?
If they release a phone with all the features possible then the price would be insane. By then, may I ask you to support MS buy buying such device? No, because there is a good chance that you will be among the very first people to whine about the price.

Whining about the price? I have 1020, so big NO. I don't really care spending a 1000 or 2000 dollar on windows phone phone as long as I get what I really payed for.

 

[dlalonde]

I sadly agree with him. I've been looking at the iPhone 6 lately too. I still have hopes for Windows 10 but it is a little annoying sometimes.

It's always a matter of "Will this app be available for my phone?" and 8/10 times it's not or they are but lacking behind in updates (including MS apps).

I'm also afraid that the "Windows 10 will be available for all platforms" could mean the end of Windows Phone in the long term. Because they'll only be creating one version of Windows. Therefore if the phone's popularity dies away, they're not losing as much as if they were making two seperate OS's.

Anyhow, it's sad but I'm also growing tired of the frustrations we have to endure. We always have to lower our expectations.

 

[Nick_1020]

Just made the switch to Android myself. Went for the Xperia Z3 first. Lovely looking phone, feature rich and generally a great performer but I struggled with the camera (plus a couple of other gripes) so sent it back. Decided on the Note 4 next and wow, what a phone. Camera quality seems great too.

I will miss WP and I might return one day but the app situation needs to improve. I would also like to see other features such as USB-OTG implemented, especially on devices without expandable memory. Will definitely miss the camera on the 1020 and it will be interesting to see what MS do to follow it up.

Edit: My 1000th post! Woohoo!

 

[mdau]

I sadly agree with him. I've been looking at the iPhone 6 lately too. I still have hopes for Windows 10 but it is a little annoying sometimes.

It's always a matter of "Will this app be available for my phone?" and 8/10 times it's not or they are but lacking behind in updates (including MS apps).

I'm also afraid that the "Windows 10 will be available for all platforms" could mean the end of Windows Phone in the long term. Because they'll only be creating one version of Windows. Therefore if the phone's popularity dies away, they're not losing as much as if they were making two seperate OS's.

Anyhow, it's sad but I'm also growing tired of the frustrations we have to endure. We always have to lower our expectations.

....then you have to lower your expectations with the iphone 6 too.

 

[Soulstream]

Good god... how many freaking apps does a person need?? People need an app to flush their ****ter...and if the official app is not available on WP, than it's a no go! I've been using WP since WP7 was released, and I've never had more than a handful of apps on my phone... a weather app, news, mint, a couple others, and that's it. I'm so sick of hearing about apps. Use the damn mobile website instead! 99% of the time it's a better experience than an app anyway.

I will tell you the single most important feature a website cannot do, but an app can: NOTIFICATIONS.