Universal apps are failing

[Jakoh]

Dude, tell Steve Ballmer to focus on the Clippers, his window with the current talent is closing fast, that franchise needs a championship before Lakers are good again :grincry:. Stop digging into Nadella stuff, they have Bill Gates for that.

 

[cracgor]

CRACGOR, It makes sense because so many millions of people use tablets. There are grocery stores now that have holders for your tablet on the back of the basket. Grocery stores want to get away from paper advertisements and coupons etc.
Crawl out from under your version 1.0 rock for gods sake.

Hey man looks like your caps lock got stuck there. I don't see what my rock has to do with any of this. I have a feeling that place on the cart is for your iPad with the store's app. It could work for a surface too,but in 4 years no grocery store has seen fit to develop for windows PC or rt. Universal apps won't fix that. The point is more that the idea universal apps will fix windows mobile only works if developers make the app for PC first. What universal apps have happened yet? 5 or 6 months into windows 10. 4 years into surface. How long should a reasonable person wait on this plan?

For everyone else, with this Ballmer versus Nadella nonsense. I really don't care about either of them. I would kind of just like this platform to survive. And I see no how with the current plan. The only reason I stayed this thread or mentioned him was because of the Windows central news article, and trading the comments section there. I thought the comments there missed a lot of the points I raised. I was ask for universal apps 2 years ago when they were announced. I see no progress. I would like to, but I don't.

 

[uselessrobot]

Supporting Android is a surefire way to kill Windows on mobile. To everyone in the press it would be perceived as an acknowledgement that Microsoft has failed at breaking in to mobile. Worse still, Google will never play nice with Microsoft and the move would be fraught with endless problems.

It is ridiculous how people are quick to dismiss technology in its infancy. It's akin to people dismissing the automobile in 1886. Continuum is something new with massive potential that will take time to flesh out. Just because it might not currently suit your needs doesn't mean it won't eventually evolve into something incredibly useful.

A friend of mine in IT thinks that something like Continuum is a lot closer to adoption than we realize; particularly in enterprise. And regardless, I think it's an inevitability that hardware will merge into singular devices. At this point it's more a matter of who gets there first.

Microsoft's challenge has always been that while they're quick to market with new ideas they're slow to turn those ideas into viable, reliable products. That leaves the door wide open for someone to jump in with a more refined product and steal the prize. I think back to Windows tablets back in 2002. A ton of potential, but those devices were terribly clunky. Eventually Apple came along with the iPad and got it right.

Hopefully Microsoft will get things right with Continuum, but in the meantime it's arguably a product in beta. That doesn't negate it's potential. It just means that Microsoft shouldn't be pinning mobile on that particular feature just yet. Let it sit there in the background and garner attention as it improves, but they've got more immediate things to worry about. Namely getting these devices in the hands of the consumer and, critically, addressing the app gap.

Ballmer has some legitimate concerns, but given his track record over the past 15 years I don't think he has a right to be so critical.

 

[RoyalX]

Universal apps are failing?!
Windows (Phone) is failing!!!

They promised a lot, but I don't see it.

 

[runamuck83]

Oh I almost forgot this is "The Sky is Falling Central"

 

[Joe920]

Oh I almost forgot this is "The Sky is Falling Central"

Is that domain still available? It would serve a need.

 

[PepperdotNet]

I just converted one of my apps from Windows 8.1 and WP8.1 to Windows 10 Universal and submitted it to the store. Took just about as much time and effort as it did to come here and post this.

Yeah, failing.

 

[paulxxwall]

Ballmer is not right. Universal apps platform is not going to flop. It's just starting. What about project Astoria , islandwood , westminster , centennial ???????

I don't know ? What about them? Where they at?

 

[MikeSo]

The problem is not that each user needs every app. It is that each user needs 1 or 2 apps that aren't available. My 2 are different than someone else's. That then accumulates over millions of users. If you are a windows phone fan you spend your time finding work arounds. If you really don't care all that much about what operating system you have, then your work around is another phone.

Yeah, I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. If someone sold a car that worked on 80% of roads, that would be fine for those that really loved that car or those few that drove only on roads where the car worked anyway. But for those that happened to want to drive on those other 20% it would be a non starter. No amount of "but you can just drive another way around" would convince them to choose that car when all the other cars can drive on 100% of the roads.

 

[jhoff80]

I just converted one of my apps from Windows 8.1 and WP8.1 to Windows 10 Universal and submitted it to the store. Took just about as much time and effort as it did to come here and post this.

Yeah, failing.

Context is important. Yeah, you did that and it's great, but that doesn't actually do anything for the lack of apps on Windows. The problem that Universal apps need to solve as pointed out by Ballmer and others is getting missing apps that people need onto the platform.

Like I said earlier, if we saw something like Snapchat (not even important for me personally, but it's a huge symbol), Starbucks, Google apps, etc... then I'd say that wow, the Universal app strategy to get apps on phone might have a chance. Right now, all we're seeing is apps like yours - developers who are already developing on Windows putting out W10 Universal apps. Again, great, but how does that fix any of W10M's problems?

 

[Nabkawe5]

Um..

Starbucks installs on an iPad right? That makes sense, doesn't? But it won't make sense on my Surface pro 4? Or any other touch screen and/or laptop with a detachable screen?

It's only "failing" because Apple has not done it yet.

P.S windows 10 mobile is not out as yet so you would not see apps for them... and before you say it. Windows 8/8.1 and Windows 10 universal apps are totally different.

Sure they were totally different in the sense that they were preached years ago

 

[7a2eer]

Now you are a developer, does it make more sense to work on this, out figure out how to just make an android app and an IOS app and ship the desktop app? Not being negative, but the phone they are going to the store with is not a windows phone. So maybe if it syncs to the cloud and then to the iPhone or whatever they might develop a windows app. And maybe they make it universal, but there is little incentive to go from PC to phone.

I'm am not sure I understood you. I apologize in advance if I did not address your question. The idea is to promote coding for Windows first, iOS/Android second. By coding for several different platforms developers will naturally focus less on the least significant one. Its hard to maintain parity between all these platforms as they differ significantly. Especially when you are one person.
If you have to choose between making three apps or supporting three platforms which would you choose? If the concern is money then the former is the most sensibleBut if a Windows -> iOS/Android bridge existed, one could write three apps and they would be supported on three platforms!

Writing that out though, windows should just force developers to make all apps universal. My understanding now is that it is optional.

Kinda sorta. Basic, well written apps for W10 or W10M will work with little modification to the interface. i.e calculator app

I guess it is easier for the companies to just write an app for a popular phone, and the consumer can just make the list on his phone. Or if the phone had an app, the refrigerator may even tell the phone to put ketchup on the list.

It is easier, but these apps are executive decisions. Microsoft really should get their phones into the hands of CEOs!

 

[cracgor]

I'm am not sure I understood you. I apologize in advance if I did not address your question. The idea is to promote coding for Windows first, iOS/Android second. By coding for several different platforms developers will naturally focus less on the least significant one. Its hard to maintain parity between all these platforms as they differ significantly. Especially when you are one person.
If you have to choose between making three apps or supporting three platforms which would you choose? If the concern is money then the former is the most sensibleBut if a Windows -> iOS/Android bridge existed, one could write three apps and they would be supported on three platforms!


Kinda sorta. Basic, well written apps for W10 or W10M will work with little modification to the interface. i.e calculator app


It is easier, but these apps are executive decisions. Microsoft really should get their phones into the hands of CEOs!

It's a bad place to be. Any effort is considered too much by most developers and even when Microsoft or a3rd party wants to do the work for free, major developers say no thanks. Maybe they want control, maybe they have a distaste for Microsoft. I think the universal app idea is a great one. I don't think it has a good chance to save mobile and I don't know that it makes sense for a lot of developers. Like each device may have a better implementation available. Another example of this, is RuntasticPro. I run with this on my phone. Even an app on a watch would not be the same as a phone. And it would make no sense to have GPS built into the app on my surface. That us why I thought it was failed

 

[elindalyne]

One thing to note is the VS 2015 Update 1 just shipped.. It *should* make it quite a bit easier for devs to make cross platform apps targetting Android, IOS and Windows.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn771552.aspx

 

[cracgor]

One thing to note is the VS 2015 Update 1 just shipped.. It *should* make it quite a bit easier for devs to make cross platform apps targetting Android, IOS and Windows.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn771552.aspx

I will hope. It's just hard to keep the faith in the current market reality.

 

[Daniel Ratcliffe]

It's a bad place to be. Any effort is considered too much by most developers and even when Microsoft or a3rd party wants to do the work for free, major developers say no thanks. Maybe they want control, maybe they have a distaste for Microsoft. I think the universal app idea is a great one. I don't think it has a good chance to save mobile and I don't know that it makes sense for a lot of developers. Like each device may have a better implementation available. Another example of this, is RuntasticPro. I run with this on my phone. Even an app on a watch would not be the same as a phone. And it would make no sense to have GPS built into the app on my surface. That us why I thought it was failed

I think its the devs insatiable desire for Microsoft to fall that drives it. Like some devs, I have a feeling Microsoft could say "Here's $10 billion, make an app for Windows Phone, or failing that, we can make it for you" and the companies would be like "Ha no, we'll never release for your platform even if you hit 100% marketshare, we want you to DIE!". Extremist yes, but there are plenty people like that. For example within the people I know, Microsoft is seen as a relic that needs to die off FAST. Even no work with a huge pre-release payout to port it to Microsoft phones is considered too much work.

 

[anon(9707071)]

i really believe that universal apps are MS's last chance ! devs were really not interested in making something for phones...then port it to tablets, then to pc or vice versa. now they can just make one app...for ALL.

so what is it is better on phablets than pc ? who cares...! the whole point of universal apps...is to get dev's on board....after that, consumers will come

 

[Dewg]

Any effort is considered too much by most developers and even when Microsoft or a3rd party wants to do the work for free, major developers say no thanks.

That's the one that kills me. When MS offers to write the app themselves, they're turned down in many cases. The big one I can recall is YouTube, where Google actively battled against MS and threatened to sue if they didn't pull their version of the app. It was over ad revenue, but something tells me even if MS got the ads working correctly, Google would have still pulled it.

3rd party developers have written great Snapchat alternatives (best being 6snap), but were kicked out by Snapchat when they pulled support for all 3rd-party APIs after a data breach. Since then they've refused to work with MS or anyone on a Windows app. Users and MS are putting pressure on them, and hopefully things will change soon with universal apps. But we're at their mercy.

 

[Bobvfr]

Yet we have this:

Saavn Music & Radio comes to Windows 10 Mobile as a universal app | Windows Central

Can't say I have heard of the app/desktop program before on PC, but now it's a universal bringing an app to WM that we hadn't seen before. I am sure there will be many more.

 

[WillysJeepMan]

That's the one that kills me. When MS offers to write the app themselves, they're turned down in many cases. The big one I can recall is YouTube, where Google actively battled against MS and threatened to sue if they didn't pull their version of the app. It was over ad revenue, but something tells me even if MS got the ads working correctly, Google would have still pulled it.

That's because of the Google/Microsoft feud. Microsoft needs to make nice with Google as they're doing with Apple.

3rd party developers have written great Snapchat alternatives (best being 6snap), but were kicked out by Snapchat when they pulled support for all 3rd-party APIs after a data breach. Since then they've refused to work with MS or anyone on a Windows app. Users and MS are putting pressure on them, and hopefully things will change soon with universal apps. But we're at their mercy.

Microsoft's road toward attracting those developers will be a long and hard one. Those developers (or some like them) have been burned by MS before... sometimes more than once.

In order for Microsoft to maximize the possibility of success for the Windows Mobile platform (via universal apps or not) they need to take an "old" page from Apple's playbook. Apple produced hardware and in order to sell it, they initially had to produce the software to run on it. They had to make the total package a compelling one. iWork, iLife, etc. were all apps that enabled Macs to be fully functional for a majority of "average" users.

THAT is the answer to the "what came first the chicken or the egg" dilemma of software for a platform. Developers won't invest time to develop for a platform that has few customers, but customers won't buy into a platform that doesn't have the software.

Patch things up with Google and develop world-class native client apps that access Google services. Don't rely on Google to do it. They have their own thing going with Android and besides nobody knows the Modern UI paradigm better than MS.