W10 Mobile x86 .exe Emulator

[Rosebank]

We must be reading very different articles, because everything I've read (from anyone who can be taken seriously) suggests otherwise. At this point I'd be stunned if it'd be even technically possible to see a desktop of any kind (either the Win32 desktop or the UWP desktop) on a 5" display. IMO at 5" the UI will be identical to W10M and you'll only be able to run UWP apps that support phone sized UIs. Basically no different from W10M.


IMO you'll never even see the desktop without using a larger display. Period.


Of course, if your phone comes with a foldable display, unfolding it two or three times would result in sufficiently large display. ??????

Could not agree more and a folding display with durability and multi function could be the answer, ie-when folded 1 side or 1 fold still displays as a screen.
This is getting interesting, and I simply cant wait to see how they solve this or present us with the answer.

 

[Joe920]

This is getting interesting, and I simply cant wait to see how they solve this or present us with the answer.

Can't wait to own a Surface Phone and getting annoyed with the lack of Waze and Google Maps all over again.

 

[Rosebank]

Can't wait to own a Surface Phone and getting annoyed with the lack of Waze and Google Maps all over again.

Its going to have to be something very special to tempt me back over, i wont jump on some band-wagon craze unless i know its good, functional and solid, i will also wait at least 5 or 6 months (if all sounds good) before i jump back over to a surface phone or whatever it is, i will be studying the forums, reports and reviews very seriously in that time.

 

[fatclue_98]

Nothing breeds arguments more than ignorance. Nobody outside of Microsoft's inner sanctum knows what this is going to end up being. We've seen mockups and patent sketches, that's all. I use the term ignorance in it's most literal form - lack of knowledge.

Several hypotheses have been put forth based on each member's view of what's been shown or leaked. How about we show each other some respect and not pretend like any of us knows WTF is going on?

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[Rosebank]

How about we show each other some respect and not pretend like any of us knows WTF is going on?

How about MS show us some respect and keep us in the loop instead of keeping us guessing what's happening with W10m, Surface phone, and Emulation, we have a situation here where the current platform is on the brink of collapse in terms of users yet we expect there to be some good faith left for us to jump onto the next "telephone" from MS, I mean this is scrambled egg at best.

 

[Joe920]

Nothing breeds arguments more than ignorance. Nobody outside of Microsoft's inner sanctum knows what this is going to end up being

How about MS show us some respect and keep us in the loop instead of keeping us guessing

Maybe they're keeping it vague on purpose, hoping that we will tell them what the heck this would be good for.

Just kidding!

 

[Rosebank]

Maybe they're keeping it vague on purpose, hoping that we will tell them what the heck this would be good for.

Just kidding!

:grin:

 

[fatclue_98]

How about MS show us some respect and keep us in the loop instead of keeping us guessing what's happening with W10m, Surface phone, and Emulation, we have a situation here where the current platform is on the brink of collapse in terms of users yet we expect there to be some good faith left for us to jump onto the next "telephone" from MS, I mean this is scrambled egg at best.

Yes, that would be nice of them but seeing as no other company gives their users a sneak peek like we've been getting, maybe we're spoiled. Also, I don't think they give a hairy rat's a** about mobile users anyway. I use their products because it helps put money in MY pocket better than the competition. Anything else is gravy.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[anon(50597)]

How about MS show us some respect and keep us in the loop instead of keeping us guessing what's happening with W10m, Surface phone, and Emulation, we have a situation here where the current platform is on the brink of collapse in terms of users yet we expect there to be some good faith left for us to jump onto the next "telephone" from MS, I mean this is scrambled egg at best.

That would be cool but companies don't do that.
It is fun to speculate though.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[mattiasnyc]

Full Windows on a 5" screen is a non-starter. It’s barely usable on a 8" screen. As I said, unless they can scale the UI, I'd much rather have a better Continuum experience. Unless we go back to resistive screens and a stylus, Windows icons are too small for phone-sized displays. I'm not sure what your confusion is.

I didn't say that windows on a 5" screen was NOT a non-starter. My point really was a conclusion of what you are saying. Think about it for a second:

You say you don't want a Windows experience on a 5" screen. That would be sort of "shrinking" this larger experience to a smaller screen. I don't disagree. You then say it's better to have a better Continuum experience. I don't disagree with that either.

Now, what is this Continuum experience made up of? It consists of a) a mobile device (small 5" screen for example) + b) a larger screen with keyboard/mouse.

So what I'm asking you is this: If you have the option of carrying with you a device that can do ONLY mobile apps scaled up via Continuum OR those very same apps AND 'desktop' apps as well, why would you pick the former and not the latter? In both cases you would bring the exact same device in your pocket, it's just that Windows 10 on ARM would give you more.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Only very loosely related: the latest Samsung Galaxy S8 leaks show that Android will soon also offer docking to an external screen and Windowing support.

Positive take: that means more docking stations out there in the world. Negative take: MS is getting ready to have their lunch eaten by Android yet again.

Yes I do realize Android doesn't run Windows x86 code

Well I think that last point is why the 'lunch won't be eaten'. I think that ultimately we're using a very large amount of MS software on desktops and laptops, and unless they always port those to Android we'll still be using Windows 10 compatible devices.

 

[fatclue_98]

I didn't say that windows on a 5" screen was NOT a non-starter. My point really was a conclusion of what you are saying. Think about it for a second:

You say you don't want a Windows experience on a 5" screen. That would be sort of "shrinking" this larger experience to a smaller screen. I don't disagree. You then say it's better to have a better Continuum experience. I don't disagree with that either.

Now, what is this Continuum experience made up of? It consists of a) a mobile device (small 5" screen for example) + b) a larger screen with keyboard/mouse.

So what I'm asking you is this: If you have the option of carrying with you a device that can do ONLY mobile apps scaled up via Continuum OR those very same apps AND 'desktop' apps as well, why would you pick the former and not the latter? In both cases you would bring the exact same device in your pocket, it's just that Windows 10 on ARM would give you more.

But that's the point. No one has said with any certainty that we will have both. My point is that if I have the choice between one or the other I'll take an enhanced version of Continuum as opposed to a desktop with phone capability. Maybe my English isn't as good as I thought, I thought I was clear on this.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[Joe920]

Well I think that last point is why the 'lunch won't be eaten'. I think that ultimately we're using a very large amount of MS software on desktops and laptops, and unless they always port those to Android we'll still be using Windows 10 compatible devices.

Of course I don't think Win10 will disappear any time soon, and some (initially?) small market for people who want a pocketable and dockable Win10 device seems feasible to me as well, lack of apps be darned. BUT..

If you give a user an Android phone with all the apps, that can also run a larger version of the Chrome browser and the pretty full-featured MS Office Android apps when docked, this is beginning to look like an Android device that the average consumer could use for moderately serious work.

Of course there are many professionals that would need more than that, but I think a dockable Android phone with windowed MS Office apps and a windowed file manager would be an attractive proposition for some. Possibly more attractive than a Win10 phone. We'll see though. Both sound pretty awesome to me!

 

[anon(50597)]

We just need a time machine so we can zip forward a little and see what it will actually look like!
Good conversation though and very interesting. Keep it coming. Think outside the box, not what we have today.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[a5cent]

Nothing breeds arguments more than ignorance. Nobody outside of Microsoft's inner sanctum knows what this is going to end up being. We've seen mockups and patent sketches, that's all.

I'd say we have a lot more to go on than just that.
We know MS thinks continuum is important and some of what they have planned on that front. We also have info on CShell which IMHO is a big part of the puzzle.
I also think I already have a pretty good picture of how all these system components will fit together in the OS' software stack.
You're of course right that we don't KNOW much with certainty. For example, I have no idea whether a foldable display is even planned. But if we ignore hardware and look only at the software, I do think an ever clearer picture is emerging. I think we are at a point where we can very much say what looks likely and what doesn't.

Anyway, I didn't intend to offend. Sorry if I did.

 

[fatclue_98]

I'd say we have a lot more to go on than just that.
We know MS thinks continuum is important and some of what they have planned on that front. We also have info on CShell which IMHO is a big part of the puzzle.
I also think I already have a pretty good picture of how all these system components will fit together in the OS' software stack.
You're of course right that we don't KNOW much with certainty. For example, I have no idea whether a foldable display is even planned. But if we ignore hardware and look only at the software, I do think an ever clearer picture is emerging. I think we are at a point where we can very much say what looks likely and what doesn't.

Anyway, I didn't intend to offend. Sorry if I did.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[mattiasnyc]

But that's the point. No one has said with any certainty that we will have both. My point is that if I have the choice between one or the other I'll take an enhanced version of Continuum as opposed to a desktop with phone capability. Maybe my English isn't as good as I thought, I thought I was clear on this.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

It seems pointless to argue (what seems to be) against Win on ARM simply because you don't know whether or not there will be apps that scale down to a smaller form factor. That's why your statements looked like a false dichotomy, like two alternatives that aren't the only two (the above ones).

As a matter of fact, if you read up on MS' approach to Windows 10 from a technical standpoint, or even if you just watch some of the videos found here on this website, it seems clear to me that the future W10 will at its core make this adaptation between form factors close to automatic. I actually don't even see how UWP apps in the future won't scale down to smaller screens successfully.

But even if they don't there's still something you're missing; people buy stuff like this:

for a reason. Generally consumers don't like to have tower-size PCs taking up space in the office or looking ugly in living rooms. People love small devices with sufficient power to do what they want. So even IF the future Win10 on ARM doesn't have apps that shrink nicely to smaller screens there's still an argument for getting them, which is size and power savings. So again, why would someone go and buy a big bulky desktop to run something that can run just as well on a Win 10 on ARM tiny device, even if that device is a "smartphone" with a 5" screen and an always on LTE connection, and connects to a larger screen/TV and mouse/keyboard....?

So, I actually see several reasons for why there's a good reason to buy these devices.

And if you still think there is no indication that at least UWP apps will shrink nicely to smaller screens then watch some videos or read some articles on it here.

 

[mattiasnyc]

Of course I don't think Win10 will disappear any time soon, and some (initially?) small market for people who want a pocketable and dockable Win10 device seems feasible to me as well, lack of apps be darned. BUT..

If you give a user an Android phone with all the apps, that can also run a larger version of the Chrome browser and the pretty full-featured MS Office Android apps when docked, this is beginning to look like an Android device that the average consumer could use for moderately serious work.

Of course there are many professionals that would need more than that, but I think a dockable Android phone with windowed MS Office apps and a windowed file manager would be an attractive proposition for some. Possibly more attractive than a Win10 phone. We'll see though. Both sound pretty awesome to me!

yyyyyyyyyes.... I can sort of see how some would be attracted to that. My hunch tells me however that the migration of actual W10 software would be fairly slow, and in conjunction with all the corporations that still wouldn't switch specifically to Android/Chrome as an OS and who might want more secure software (UWP) etc I'm not so sure Google will be able to pull that off fast enough.

To me it comes back at least partially to what a corporation would consider doing when updating a fleet of computers. Suppose the alternatives are Android as stated above versus W10ARM. If the corporation already has a support system for MS products and the transition appears to be borderline seamless (in that the same apps now just work on smaller devices) then why switch?

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

Couldn't go through all the discussion but I think there are histories about emulators and the huge performance drop is there. Anyone remember how much more it takes to run PlayStation emulator smoothly compare to the original hardware spec? Or how the transmeta claim how good their decoder inside CPU works yet the real performance is just meh.

There's no prove to me that MS had found something that can overcome this issue.

 

[Rosebank]

I cant help but think there is some sort of cloud solution to this, because as you say, emulation is never always that good, or some external (docking) device taking the load from the SD835, then again the emulation might be done entirely from within the self contained unit.
It has gone quiet admittedly.
...and the clock is ticking.