Why WP7 could still fail.

[LexusFman]

The Windows branding does not hurt WP at all. Your average user does not see the same things power users do. Most people do not find Wndows hard to use, its easy because that's what they've been using for ever. In fact, there are people who have no idea conputers run Windows at all. What WP needs is attactive handsets. You can't sell an operating system. You sell phones. That's why android is such a success. It's an industry standard. It lets phone companies focus on making handsets instead of focusing on making the UI and such.

 

[rockstarzzz]

That was kinda the point. You're sorta giving MS a pass because the other guys did the same thing. Yet a lot has changed since then, and that was back when smartphones, all smartphones, simply sucked. Heck, most people didn't even know what a smartphone was.

iOS & Android have been around for a long time now (in tech years anyway). They got a pass because they were first & no one knew any better. Now we do. So how are you going to convince Joe & Jane Consumer to give MS a pass the same way, when they could just go with one of the more mature ecosystems?? Honest question.

Microsoft seems like they're always playing catchup.

My attempt to answer your question from my real life experience:

My friend who has been using Nokia's feature phone since he decided to buy a mobile phone. He has only had 3 different handsets so far, Nokia, Samsung, Nokia. The last one was coloured, other two were not. The last one is a 'feature phone'.

I showed him my Lumia 800 and went on and on and on and on and on about hubs, live tiles, notifications etc. His answer: "Yes, but I can do that all on my laptop!"

For a feature phone user - all these extra features doesn't matter. If I showed him an android with widgets, customisation, custom ROMs, thousands of apps - you think he will find it simpler? No. All he wants he call, texts and at most an email replacement on his phone.

What if I lured him to an iPhone? He will think it's as good as selling his kidney for the phone he has. He is NOT going to go from 0% smartphone user to 100% tech-savvy smartphone user.

Thus, for them, it doesn't matter what features the phone has or misses. If it looks different, works easy, never stops, feels good, beautifies his life - he is sold!
Plus, it's not just the feature phone base that will buy this without features, we have already seen in our polls on this forum and elsewhere that Android and iOS users have flogged to Windows Phone Nokia Lumia 900, not because they din't know it isn't feature-full or loaded with apps. They knew it. But this is different, hence they will buy it. May be not the second time, but if Tom won't, John will next time.

This is smartphone market. No OS will rule this market for a decade without coming up with something extra-ordinary. Apple failed to do something diffferent for 5 years, Android has grabbed the 50% shares. If it does so for 2 more, you will see the market swing. But if Android keeps fragmenting and lagging and freezing for 2 more years, you will see the market rock and roll!

 

[socialcarpet]

I happen to be a big fan of Linux. In fact, I belong to two area Linux user groups. I dual-boot Win7 Professional/openSUSE 12.1 on my main PC.

As everyone knows, Linux users tend to hate all things Microsoft.

However, I attended a meeting of the Akron Linux User Group on Thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my Lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a Windows Phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the Android/iOS users.

If Linux aficionados like Windows Phone, it definitely does not matter if "Windows" is part of its name.

I've been a Mac user since the first Macintosh was sold in 1984, and used Apple's as a kid even before that. I definitely had a strong bias against Microsoft for years and always thought of Windows as being kind of a crap product.

I began to try and put that bias aside about 10 years ago. I decided to buy my first Microsoft product EVER, an HP iPaq Windows CE organizer, and it was very good. Much more capable than the Palm device I had been using, and that started to turn things around for me.

Bought a ThinkPad not too long after that, still had Mac's though. The ThinkPad was great but Windows XP I was not a huge fan of, I'm still not.

Flash forward to a couple of years ago and Windows 7 came out. I gave it a try and really like it. I still prefer Mac OS X to it, but it just goes to show if you really try to be objective, you can put bias aside and enjoy different OS's and see what's good about any of them.

That said, I don't know that calling the phone OS "Windows Phone" was good or bad. I think it would have been a good idea had they been more focused on the enterprise market, like Windows Mobile was. As far as consumers are concerned I think the Windows brand still isn't "hip" or cool and that matters, especially in the smartphone market. I think a lot of people probably hear Windows Phone and think it's going to be running Windows XP or Win Mo and it's going to get viruses. I think people who have Windows 7 and are even a little enthusiastic about it though, will make a positive association with it.

I think Microsoft could have done just as well to call it something else.

But... I think Windows 8 will change all that. Once people start buying Windows 8 PC's and Windows 8 tablets and they see that same Metro UI and Live Tile interface, it will all start to make sense to them. I really feel that will give the phones a nice boost.

A lot of people don't even know what "ecosystem" means, but they will understand how having a very similar interface on their phone as to what's on their PC and the same apps, and apps that work well together can be advantageous.

Apple understands this too, which is why they trickled some iOS-like interface features into Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) and why Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) has far more tie-in to the iOS.

All of this is going to make a lot more sense in 12-18 months. Both Apple and Microsoft are going to be able to offer a kind of synergy that the scattershot mess of Android cannot match and I predict you'll see both Windows Phone and iOS gain at least a modest amount of marketshare as a direct result of that tight integration.

 

[freestaterocker]

i happen to be a big fan of linux. In fact, i belong to two area linux user groups. I dual-boot win7 professional/opensuse 12.1 on my main pc.

As everyone knows, linux users tend to hate all things microsoft.

However, i attended a meeting of the akron linux user group on thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a windows phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the android/ios users.

If linux aficionados like windows phone, it definitely does not matter if "windows" is part of its name.

+1

 

[Laura Knotek]

I've been a Mac user since the first Macintosh was sold in 1984, and used Apple's as a kid even before that. I definitely had a strong bias against Microsoft for years and always thought of Windows as being kind of a crap product.



I began to try and put that bias aside about 10 years ago. I decided to buy my first Microsoft product EVER, an HP iPaq Windows CE organizer, and it was very good. Much more capable than the Palm device I had been using, and that started to turn things around for me.



Bought a ThinkPad not too long after that, still had Mac's though. The ThinkPad was great but Windows XP I was not a huge fan of, I'm still not.



Flash forward to a couple of years ago and Windows 7 came out. I gave it a try and really like it. I still prefer Mac OS X to it, but it just goes to show if you really try to be objective, you can put bias aside and enjoy different OS's and see what's good about any of them.



That said, I don't know that calling the phone OS "Windows Phone" was good or bad. I think it would have been a good idea had they been more focused on the enterprise market, like Windows Mobile was. As far as consumers are concerned I think the Windows brand still isn't "hip" or cool and that matters, especially in the smartphone market. I think a lot of people probably hear Windows Phone and think it's going to be running Windows XP or Win Mo and it's going to get viruses. I think people who have Windows 7 and are even a little enthusiastic about it though, will make a positive association with it.



I think Microsoft could have done just as well to call it something else.



But... I think Windows 8 will change all that. Once people start buying Windows 8 PC's and Windows 8 tablets and they see that same Metro UI and Live Tile interface, it will all start to make sense to them. I really feel that will give the phones a nice boost.



A lot of people don't even know what "ecosystem" means, but they will understand how having a very similar interface on their phone as to what's on their PC and the same apps, and apps that work well together can be advantageous.



Apple understands this too, which is why they trickled some iOS-like interface features into Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion) and why Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) has far more tie-in to the iOS.



All of this is going to make a lot more sense in 12-18 months. Both Apple and Microsoft are going to be able to offer a kind of synergy that the scattershot mess of Android cannot match and I predict you'll see both Windows Phone and iOS gain at least a modest amount of marketshare as a direct result of that tight integration.

I agree with you, especially re: ecosystems.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[canesfan625]

That was kinda the point. You're sorta giving MS a pass because the other guys did the same thing. Yet a lot has changed since then, and that was back when smartphones, all smartphones, simply sucked. Heck, most people didn't even know what a smartphone was.

iOS & Android have been around for a long time now (in tech years anyway). They got a pass because they were first & no one knew any better. Now we do. So how are you going to convince Joe & Jane Consumer to give MS a pass the same way, when they could just go with one of the more mature ecosystems?? Honest question.

Microsoft seems like they're always playing catchup.

No. iOS got a pass because iSheep. The iPhone launched missing features that smart phones had for some time.(for example) Do you actually think the iPhone was the first phone to have mms? Android didn't exactly get a pass but Google pushed out the updates pretty quick. That and people didn't start turning to it until about the time the updates had been pushed out anyway. People knew better they just didn't care. Apples cult following would buy the iPhone if it were just an empty case and no one was using Android in large scale until about 2010. Windows Phone will do the same thing as Android. Early adopters will be on top of it and by the time it picks up steam the missing features will probably be there. Hopefully minus the way Google/TMO treated their Android early adopters.

 

[Big Supes]

I happen to be a big fan of Linux. In fact, I belong to two area Linux user groups. I dual-boot Win7 Professional/openSUSE 12.1 on my main PC.

As everyone knows, Linux users tend to hate all things Microsoft.

However, I attended a meeting of the Akron Linux User Group on Thursday. When we set on phones on the table, the folks at the meeting recognized my Lumia 900. They knew what it was by the cyan color and knew it was a Windows Phone. They wanted to see it and play with it. Everyone was impressed, including the Android/iOS users.

If Linux aficionados like Windows Phone, it definitely does not matter if "Windows" is part of its name.

I guess the internet trolls give us tekkie peeps a 'cult like' status when it comes to opinions, but from what you've described, this a more indicative of the normal, more level-headed tech enthusiasts.

 

[socialcarpet]

No. iOS got a pass because iSheep. The iPhone launched missing features that smart phones had for some time.(for example) Do you actually think the iPhone was the first phone to have mms? Android didn't exactly get a pass but Google pushed out the updates pretty quick. That and people didn't start turning to it until about the time the updates had been pushed out anyway. People knew better they just didn't care. Apples cult following would buy the iPhone if it were just an empty case and no one was using Android in large scale until about 2010. Windows Phone will do the same thing as Android. Early adopters will be on top of it and by the time it picks up steam the missing features will probably be there. Hopefully minus the way Google/TMO treated their Android early adopters.

Get over the iSheep nonsense already. The iPhone sells well because it's a good product and because, yes, Apple does a great job of marketing it.

The nonsense about people would buy an empty box if it said iPhone on it is getting old. The fact is the iPhone is a good product, it set a lot of the standards in the smartphone market and had a lot of firsts. We wouldn't even have Gorilla Glass on any of these phone without it. Gorilla Glass was a product on a shelf that no one was even using until Steve Jobs called Corning up and told them he wanted to make a phone with a super durable glass screen and Corning revamped all their manufacturing to start producing the stuff and re-engineer it to work as a smartphone screen.

That's just one small example of what Apple has contributed here.

Without Apple, there would be no Android in it's current form, and we'd all be using Windows Mobile 7.0 which would look just like Windows Mobile 6 with a few updates.

It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets.

 

[jabtano]

I have no I mean no qualms with the OS at all. Just the speed in which MS moves when the mobile world is moving fast case in point tablets. Yes Bill gates was one of the first to push it but it fizzed.MS has lost a ton of ground yet they still move slow.. I think the Lumia line of devices are the best looking devices in the Mobile world currently. I don't think that OS need to be skinned by OEMS. perhaps tweaked a little. but the best way for them to stand out is to do what Nokia is doing by making some kick *** looking devices. and pushing the heck out of it. Microsoft is Microsoft worse enemy. when it comes to this new world of computing they are no longer the dominant player they need to be much more faster than what they are now. free up the camera specs do that nice Nokia camera can be on a WP device.Time will tell I guess. Bottom line is I enjoy the OS over the other two. But yet at the same time it's all the little things that are so darn fustrating...

 

[Winterfang]

Could? There's a bigger chance for failure than ever. Microsoft seems to had done everything wrong they can in order to destroy their Windows Phone.

Which is sad because Bing has being so successful against all odds. I see them right as a 100% failure. However I'll give them a second chance if Apollo turns out to be on part with the other OS.

 

[cckgz4]

What I'm really trying to get across is that MS is super slow. the Mobile world is super fast. simple is ok to a point. But when that simple is less than what is available else where for the same price.

imo the only reason why the mobile industry seems fast is android. OEMs are mass producing phones at an accelerated rate and have burned through hardware specs to make the phone more optimized for the system/user. People seem to forget that our Os is fluid enough with specs that are considered dated for Android's standards

Sent from my Le Lumia using Board Express

 

[invertme]

WP7 doesn't have yet (USB Mass storage/Local file manager/Bluetooth file transfer/TV Out/NFC. Yet Android devices depending on the device provides all of the above.

Ohh you mean those things that almost no one uses? Yeah they are real deal breakers....

 

[canesfan625]

Get over the iSheep nonsense already. The iPhone sells well because it's a good product and because, yes, Apple does a great job of marketing it.

The nonsense about people would buy an empty box if it said iPhone on it is getting old. The fact is the iPhone is a good product, it set a lot of the standards in the smartphone market and had a lot of firsts. We wouldn't even have Gorilla Glass on any of these phone without it. Gorilla Glass was a product on a shelf that no one was even using until Steve Jobs called Corning up and told them he wanted to make a phone with a super durable glass screen and Corning revamped all their manufacturing to start producing the stuff and re-engineer it to work as a smartphone screen.

That's just one small example of what Apple has contributed here.

Without Apple, there would be no Android in it's current form, and we'd all be using Windows Mobile 7.0 which would look just like Windows Mobile 6 with a few updates.

It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets.

okay I guess I just imagine people lining the streets to buy the next iteration of an apple product even when there are little changes and they can't even tell some of them apart. Lets forget that and move on. Apple changed the coherence of smart phones not bring some glorious new technology we have never seen before. Also claming that android wouldn't be the same is a silly and generic point. iOS wouldnt exist as we know it without windows phone and android.

What we can say is that Android wouldnt exist as we know it without google. Android incorporated was having money problems and then ended up being acquired by google. I wonder what would have happened had there not been delays. Iirc development on android began like a year or so before ios.

 

[socialcarpet]

You're probably right winterfang. Microsoft will do everything they can to destroy windows phone. By this time next year there will be no windows phones in any store and Microsoft will be sending death squads out to confiscate our phones.
Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen anyone on any forum like this as pessimistic as you. I hope for your sake and the sake of the people you know that you aren't like this in real life.
Cheer up. Go outside and walk your dog. Have an ice cream. Stop thinking that the worst possible scenario for everything is what's going to happen for windows phone. I fear you don't have the heart for this fight. Maybe you need an Android or an iPhone.

Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[socialcarpet]

okay I guess I just imagine people lining the streets to buy the next iteration of an apple product even when there are little changes and they can't even tell some of them apart. Lets forget that and move on. Apple changed the coherence of smart phones not bring some glorious new technology we have never seen before. Also claming that android wouldn't be the same is a silly and generic point.



What we can say is that Android wouldnt exist as we know it without google. Android incorporated was having money problems and then ended up being acquired by google. I wonder what would have happened had there not been delays. Iirc development on android began like a year or so before ios.

Before iOS the Android OS in development looked like BlackBerry and wasn't even a touchscreen OS. Rabid Apple fans are delusional, but rabid Apple haters are just as bad. Give credit where its due and look at the facts instead if regurgitating the usual tired old Apple hater ideological talking points.




Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express

 

[canesfan625]

Before iOS the Android OS in development looked like BlackBerry and wasn't even a touchscreen OS. Rabid Apple fans are delusional, but rabid Apple haters are just as bad. Give credit where its due and look at the facts instead if regurgitating the usual tired old Apple hater ideological talking points.




Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Exprss

So an OS that was originally developed in 2003 for blackberries looked like a blackberry OS?

 

[socialcarpet]

So an OS that was originally developed in 2003 for blackberries looked like a blackberry OS?

 

[canesfan625]

haha I like that one.

 

[socialcarpet]

haha I like that one.

 

[fatclue_98]

okay I guess I just imagine people lining the streets to buy the next iteration of an apple product even when there are little changes and they can't even tell some of them apart. Lets forget that and move on. Apple changed the coherence of smart phones not bring some glorious new technology we have never seen before. Also claming that android wouldn't be the same is a silly and generic point. iOS wouldnt exist as we know it without windows phone and android.

What we can say is that Android wouldnt exist as we know it without google. Android incorporated was having money problems and then ended up being acquired by google. I wonder what would have happened had there not been delays. Iirc development on android began like a year or so before ios.

Let's set the way-back machine to 2007 when the 1st iPhone was being released. Was it innovative? Yes. Why? Because at that time those of us who had smartphones were tapping screens with our stylii on Palm Treos and iPaqs. The iPhone introduced us to something vastly different and rightly so. But remember, the first iPhone only had EDGE speeds like the rest of the smartphone world and could not tether in any way, shape or form. When the 3G model came out, that's when the proverbial dung hit the fan with the "iSheep". Mind you, I have OSX as my primary desktop device and I cannot envision changing that. I have an Android tablet because it does what I need it to do and doesn't come with the iPrice. Up until 3 weeks ago, my mobile OS was webOS because it is simply the best mobile OS out there. HP & Palm destroyed that ecosystem and left me with no choice but to move on. I chose WP7 because it handles my enterprise needs better than any of the OS's out there. My boss makes me use a Sprint iPhone 4S because he foots the bill for it, but i HATE it. It took me an inexcusably long time just to put my custom ringtones in it. I shouldn't have to do everything through the app store and I should have some autonomy as to what I do with MY phone on MY nickel. Kudos to the Android system and their convoluted mess of an OS for allowing their users to customize as they see fit. I miss Preware and homebrews on my previous Pre2 and especially freetether. But my Samsung Focus now has Internet Sharing, is dev unlocked and I'm free to enjoy my phone again.

It took awhile for iOS to bring in cut & paste, tethering and other things we take for granted. Does anyone remember the miniscule onscreen keyboard from the days of WM5, 6, 6.x? No wonder we required a full-qwerty hardware keyboard. The 1st gen iPhone showed that there was something better, but I'm sorry fanboys, they have since been surpassed. A million useless apps equals 40 good apps so that argument does not hold water. And last I checked, a lot of these so-called "killer apps" were what us old-timers used to call "bookmarks". Feel free to attack my post, but don't cry when I come over reciting Ezekiel 25:17.