Windows Phone 7's Upgrade to WP8 Apollo Now Unclear

[sentimentGX4]

Support doesn't entail upgrading the OS. MS sends out patches to old versions of Windows, but they don't claim that Windows 7 will run well on any machine that ran XP.

The difference is...
A) Desktop OSes are updated only once every 3+ years and NOT once per year
B) Both Apple and Google have established models of complimentary OS updates

Using Windows OS as an example is using an archaic model to pigeonhole a point for a modern business model.

 

[Pronk]

All we can say with any certainty is this:

1. Best case scenario: everything can be upgraded
2. Pretty good scenario: everything bar Tango models can be upgraded (though support might end with this upgrade for older models). Tango models will get their own upgrade path
3. Acceptable but not wonderful scenario: some models, a mix of older and newer depending on spec, will get the upgrade. The market will unavoidably fractionate a bit as a result and some buyers of new(er) handsets that don't make the grade will understandably be anoyed
4. Worst case scenario: Microsoft have pulled a bait and switch. No current models will upgrade to Apollo.

Personally, my money is on 3. 1 is unlikely because if Tango devices could run it, they'd know that already and say "Hey, everyone can run Windows 8!". That'd be a selling point. The fact they haven't pretty much says they know Tango devices won't have the horsepower but they don't want to kill sales.

I don't think 2 can be true because some gen 1 devices are very close to the new Tango models in spec. Too close to say one can, and one can't. That leaves 3 as the only option - I can see devices like the Radar, with a slower processor, being left behind with some of the lower spec gen 1 devices.

If it turns out the vague language and lack of a specific statement is because 4 is true, then I think I'll not be the only one selling up and going elsewhere. But 4 really would be a bizarre, if not suicidal, business choice. I just can't see it happening.

 

[Big Supes]

I'm sticking to current devices (bar Tango) upgrading to wp8, but going with those who have added that some features could be missing.

 

[snowmutt]

I will still happily put myself in the category of all Gen 2 WP will get Apollo, and I ain't worried about it. I am worried for Gen 1 WP's, as it was a very small number that actually sold, and Microsoft is probably hoping to get Apollo devices on all carriers, and they are hoping all those device owners will upgrade anyway. But, I still am at ease with it. For those saying it is right around the corner, it really isn't in the world of sales. Q4 is an entire life cycle of selling seasons away. MS has plenty of time to hash this out. Lets not loose sight of the fact that Apollo is their main hope. HTC, Nokia, Samsung are all going to wait on it to release new phones. Getting it right going forward is way more important to them than getting it right going backwards.

 

[bananapeal]

Apple or Google don't go around commiting devices to the next update. So why should Microsoft and why do people keep pestering them. They will know when the product is done. They can't possibly know until they have tested Apollo on devices and then decided to do no update, partial update, or full update etc...

I would like to pester them because in my opinion windows phone 7.5 is a BETA version.
It's not obvious until you try to use it in real life. There are bugs in MS Answers that have yet to be resolved a year an a half later... I want windows 8 to hope for a phone that works as advertized, otherwise my focus flash is going right back to the store this week!

 

[dkp23]

I am on the bandwagon that all current wp7 will NOT upgrade to apollo. I know nothing about how OS's work, i know nothing about this kernal that kernal, i only eat popcorn kernels at the bottom of the bag.

I am basing on simply what i have been reading when MS people are asked if the wp7 devices will be upgradable. I believe it should be an easy yes or no, the fact that they keep answering the question with "our goal is to have all wp7 apps compatible with wp8 and it will be" shows they are sidestepping the question and answering a whole entirely different question.

So put me down as a no-go for Apollo, at this point, those that thing it will be upgradable is only based on wishful thinking. This is only my opinion

 

[power5]

How is it just wishful thinking to believe that a 1 year old device will not get updated? Even apple would not think of doing that to customers. iPhone 4 OS was put onto 3g and 3gs devices. iPhone 4S OS was put onto ip4 and even ip3gs devices and that is an OS that was created with a dual core platform as its basis. I see absolutely no problem thinking wp8 will come to at least 7.5 devices.

 

[mtbinary]

If WP7 phones don't get WP8 then I'm blaming the carriers. They want people buying new subsidized phones and being locked in 2 year contracts. They're best interest is no feature updates for any phones.

Now on the PC world, I bought a laptop with Vista 5 years ago. I was able to upgrade to Windows 7 and now Windows 8. Sure I had to pay for the upgrade, but I'm sure others would pay for major phone releases.

Ha! Lucky you. I just finished a hateful experience with a 4 year old Dell Laptop that came equipped with Vista. I had an extra copy of Win7 and tried to upgrade. Imagine my complete surprise when I discovered that I couldn't run a fricken printer driver for an HP 8500!! It wasn't the only driver that wouldn't work on that miserable machine...

I'm currently using a 2 y/o Droid X and giving serious consideration to the WP. Sounds like I should tough it out just a bit longer? My droid has gone through 2 nominal upgrades and don't expect it to see any significant changes. After my recent 'upgrade,' experience with a Vista machine, I take no upgrade path for granted...
__________________
My Mortgage Websites

 

[mtbinary]

If WP7 phones don't get WP8 then I'm blaming the carriers. They want people buying new subsidized phones and being locked in 2 year contracts. They're best interest is no feature updates for any phones.

Now on the PC world, I bought a laptop with Vista 5 years ago. I was able to upgrade to Windows 7 and now Windows 8. Sure I had to pay for the upgrade, but I'm sure others would pay for major phone releases.

How is it just wishful thinking to believe that a 1 year old device will not get updated? Even apple would not think of doing that to customers. iPhone 4 OS was put onto 3g and 3gs devices. iPhone 4S OS was put onto ip4 and even ip3gs devices and that is an OS that was created with a dual core platform as its basis. I see absolutely no problem thinking wp8 will come to at least 7.5 devices.

Hate to sound sound so negative, but I think it is fair to say that IOS was a much more mature platform as compared to WP7 at this point?

 

[dkp23]

I believe they are configuring the UI with a whole need look to match that of windows 8. i am guessing MS has accepted that wp7 is not going to be a game changer, but can gather some market share while still around. The Lumia 900 is not a hero phone and i am thinking they are believing wp8 will be the hero phone. Right now, get what you market share you can and take the hits and come out strong with the next iteration.

iPhones looked relatively the same and they just added features, i think the wp8 is coming out with a whole new look to coincide with the wp8 and that would make it difficult to have wp8 os upgraded on current phones due to potential hardware limitations.

I see it as similar to what MS did with the xbox, they killed that off when the 360 came out, outright just stopped supporting it. While sony continued to support the ps2 when the ps3 came out. I can see a similar scenario playing out.

When it comes to corporate thinking and all the $$ invested, logic goes out the door and the imagination of some highly educated corporate exec takes over and a lot of times, their plan doesn't end well.

 

[coffeemike]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't MS held device manufacturers to a common platform (at least for the relevant bits) in each of the two generations of WP phones we've seen? That was my understanding - we aren't in a world where device manufacturers are really competing on hardware, save some differences in form factor (e.g. screen size) and cameras and other extras.

So, you've got:
* Gen 1 phones (that I can't name)
* Gen 2 phones (like my Focus S, or the Lumia 900, or HTC Titan)
* "Gen 2.5" phones (ones designed specifically for Tango)
* Gen 3 phones (post-Apollo)

Each of those bands are, to my understanding, fairly comparable in terms of processor, memory, storage, et cetera, right? Or is there more variation than I'm aware of?

 

[bananapeal]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't MS held device manufacturers to a common platform (at least for the relevant bits) in each of the two generations of WP phones we've seen? That was my understanding - we aren't in a world where device manufacturers are really competing on hardware, save some differences in form factor (e.g. screen size) and cameras and other extras.

So, you've got:
* Gen 1 phones (that I can't name)
* Gen 2 phones (like my Focus S, or the Lumia 900, or HTC Titan)
* "Gen 2.5" phones (ones designed specifically for Tango)
* Gen 3 phones (post-Apollo)

Each of those bands are, to my understanding, fairly comparable in terms of processor, memory, storage, et cetera, right? Or is there more variation than I'm aware of?

coffeemike it seems to me that some gen 1 phones were equipped with 1ghz snapdragons not 1.4ghz like in gen2

 

[fogel35]

How is it just wishful thinking to believe that a 1 year old device will not get updated? Even apple would not think of doing that to customers. iPhone 4 OS was put onto 3g and 3gs devices. iPhone 4S OS was put onto ip4 and even ip3gs devices and that is an OS that was created with a dual core platform as its basis. I see absolutely no problem thinking wp8 will come to at least 7.5 devices.

Your are talking about 2 distinctly different corporate cultures when discussing Microsoft and Apple.

Apple discussing nothing and leaks close to nothing ( unless they know it will benefit them ). Microsoft is the leaky ship but wants to be like Apple and not discuss anything.

I am sure the head of the Windows Phone division is ready to kill someone about the Windows 8 leak and even the road map leak. But the problem is the genie is out of the bottle and the only way to put it back in is by being forthright and honest. If they did that it would make me purchasing a Nokia Lumia 900 a slam dunk but instead I have to lament about maybe choosing the HTC One X because I don't want to tied down to a dead end OS. Then again I could always pass that dead ender to my wife come October but that is a decision I can make later.

Ironically haven't Microsoft Surrogates been constantly bashing Android about fragmentation yet they may potentially orphan 7.5 devices like they did with their 6.5 devices. Makes no sense but that is Microsoft for ya.

 

[ljkelley]

I would like to pester them because in my opinion windows phone 7.5 is a BETA version.
It's not obvious until you try to use it in real life. There are bugs in MS Answers that have yet to be resolved a year an a half later... I want windows 8 to hope for a phone that works as advertized, otherwise my focus flash is going right back to the store this week!

Well then take your phone back as you are not getting an answer this week. And iOS and Android have their share of bugs as well. Probably alot of the 'bugs' on MS Answers are feature requests/missing features. WP has been my most stable OS I have used ever. And I have used Symbian, iOS, Android, and WebOS.

And 8107 fixed quite a few bugs if AT&T would just send it out... no comment. Beyond that WP is not a beta product, it can stand up to the best and beat them at their game (hence the #smokedbywindowsphone).

 

[aubreyq]

If I were to bet on it I'd say 1st gen devices (Focus, Arrive, Quantum, Surround, etc) won't get WP8, but the Lumias, Focus S, Focus Flash, Titan, Titan II and Radar will.

Time will tell.

 

[canesfan625]

tl;dr

Does anyone have a source other than he said she said they said some guy said at this meeting.

 

[selfcreation]

tl;dr

Does anyone have a source other than he said she said they said some guy said at this obscure meeting.

nope , 100% rumor. lol
couple bloggers started rumors and here we are.

 

[canesfan625]

nope , 100% rumor. lol
couple bloggers started rumors and here we are.

The article stops making sense at the notion that no devices will receive the update.. at all. Also claiming its up to carriers.. by the very update rules they agreed to they cannot refuse to push Apollo. They can only veto minor updates

Edit - this is forgetting that Microsoft has repeatedly stressed the power of timely and consistent updates on the platform

 

[blehblehbleh]

tl;dr

Does anyone have a source other than he said she said they said some guy said at this meeting.

Hehe if you bothered to read you would've noticed my post where I linked the youtube audio and full transcript

http://forums.windowscentral.com/1629953-post52.htm

 

[Dave Blake]

Hehe if you bothered to read you would've noticed my post where I linked the youtube audio and full transcript

http://forums.windowscentral.com/1629953-post52.htm

That's a little rude by the way.

I did listen and read what I got from that is he can't say for sure either way and if an update is going to make your device slow and laggy why would you want it.

Again my take on the audio. If you like the device thats available now go ahead and get it the ecosystem won't change what you have now will work in the future what you buy now app wise will work in the future. Weather or not your device will receive an update will depend on if its fesble and will only be done if it doesn't disturb user experience with the device. What you have to ask yourself I think is do you trust Microsoft and the device makers/ carriers to make this decision? With apple its one device one solution Windows Phone is a completely different business model.

My conclusion get it (WP8 update) or don't get it doesn't matter if I do get it bonus for me if I don't get it I still have one great device and when my contract is up I will buy a new device with all the latest and I will still get to keep my apps.

I had a Windows XP laptop I upgraded it to Windows 7 it ruined the laptop made it so slow I hated it. I won't make that mistake again.