Windows Phone it's not the right choice for the people after all.

[tangledW]

For me to even consider switching back to Windows Phone, I'd need:

* all the Google apps
* a payment system on par with Apple Pay
* Cortana should be backed by a knowledge graph as expansive as Google's adding new cards all the time
* 3D Touch and "smart tiles/icons" that give context-specific actions based on pressure sensitivity applied to the screen
* banking apps
* Dropbox, Zillow, Instagram, Facebook, Candy Crush and the other top 500 apps on iOS/Android not just there, but same quality & updated!
* best-in-class first-party MS apps experiences(Outlook, Groove, OneDrive, Office, etc...)
* hardware that exceeds the latest iPhone(Surface Phone)

You just described a device with features that neither Android or iPhone have individually.

I'd suggest you buy an iPhone 6s and new Samsung, then duct tape them together.

 

[Slovenix]

People around me that are 20y+ seems to switch to Windows phones and prefer it. However I'm like the youngest out of those and when I ask them if they know Snapchat (that thing everyone seems to cry about) they don't even know it or think its stupid and they also don't care about Google and neither Microsoft, they just want something that works.

 

[Tien-Lin Chang]

What kind of people is Windows Phone (And next, Windows 10 Mobile) aimed at? Not the regular people.

In 2010, I'd say windows phone was aiming those who fed up with the UX of android yet no ready to pay for iPhone. Providing smooth UI, simple(refreshing?) design and basic function in a more affordable price. Fair enough

In 2012, I'd say people were expecting windows phone can sync work with windows (the same NT core blah) and showing greater ability with the state-of-the-art SPEC on par with droid phones (those S4 flagships).

But in 2015, I'm not sure. The UI smoothness? Even we ignore the sluggish when actual running apps and resume/reload issue, the main screen smoothness isn't that special anymore.

This video shown that with smaller loading from metro UI design, android device from the same time (the lagdroid era) can achieve similar smoothness.

The semi-interactive tiles UI is not change for 5 years and more than 10% of the PC are sharing similar UI - it's strange to say iOS/Android UI are boring if your PC/tablet/phone all look the same in the near future isn't it?

The 3rd party launcher for sure give android way more possibility and refreshness than WP.

The camera? The OIS+41mp was the ACE card MS/Nokia had at it's time, but with new sensor design the sharpness/resolution of new camera performance on the mobile market are increased significantly. With no clue how much effort MSFT still put/keep in image department I'm not sure how much advantage this 8x FxAA 5mp supersampling photo can keep? The new 20mp camera not even mentioned if it got PDAF, I couldn't see ANY special hardware-wise and software work can be achieved/copied pretty soon. Not to mention how much they can solve the traditional white balance problem all the way from 920 to 830.

The low price at entry-level product? After three years the MSFT entry level product (even 550/640) won't stand a chance in a head-on battle against android entry level machines. You can get one kicking 830's *** hard in around 150USD off-contact and that's really a treat.

The new, really sync with deaktop, windows 10 mobile OS? They might really got the sync dream achieved, but with cloud everyone can work anywhere anytime so I couldn't find a real strong feature in windows 10 mobile so far...

I hope I was wrong

 

[Ian Too]

This isn't going to be popular on Windows Central, I know that there are many who hate Google... you may fire at will.

I may ask you to back that bus up a little bit. Two claims that may need to be adjusted with some additional context:

1. Stagefright: At its HEIGHT the media ran with the story that over 1 billion devices were effected. In truth, stagefreight had the ability to impact less than .08% of devices at the time that it was discovered and no single device has ever been impacted in the wild. All devices running Android 4.0 were systemically protected by other mechanisms within Android for all known attacks that this vulnerability had available. The devices at the highest risk were Android phones running API level 10 Gingerbread 2.3.3 to 2.3.7 with more than .5GB RAM and Tablets/Google TV and other devices on API levels 11 through 13 Honeycomb with more than 1GB of RAM and being MMS capable through cellular radios. You can imagine the tiny number of devices that this is comprised of. The security updates rolling in September and October eliminated the first step of the risk so that unknown implementations of this attack can not expose undiscovered vulnerabilities that could make it through the other 6 layers of defense against this attack.

Firstly, thank you for your response. It's good to stick to facts and makes such a change from the usual Android user response.

I take my lead on security matters from Steve Gibson of the Security Now podcast. If he says the situation isn't good enough, as far as I'm concerned it isn't. Steve covered Stagefright over three or four weeks, covering its discovery, going through technical issues, explaining the type of attack and why features like address space layout randomisation(ASLR) do not adequately defend users against hackers exploiting these weaknesses - don't forget Stagefright is actually seven or eight separate vulnerabilities. Don't forget features like ASLR are not new or unique to Android; they were developed on Windows years before they were incorporated into Android - and hackers have long ago developed strategies to get around them. Also, as I understand it, these vulnerabilities are zero-day, which means they are already being exploited in the wild.

2. Privacy: Most users of things that connect to the internet are aware of the fact that they are giving their information to some company or another. The question about privacy, from a public perception, typically generates fear of that information being SHARED. In most cases, people think of data being bought/sold/traded, etc. Google has a unique model in AdSense with which your data, stuff about you, never makes it to the advertiser. Instead, the ad is placed by Google and the revenue is shared with the site, etc. at the expense of the advertiser and all of this happens with your data never leaving Google's side of the equation. This is unknown to most users, but Google takes another step and forbids themselves from sharing your data with ANY third party (unless required to do so by law, such as via a VALID warrant) without your explicit permission to share specific data with that specific third party. They give you complete control over this. This is different from the approach that say, Apple takes, where they give themselves permission to share your anonymized data with whomever they choose. To the end user, this is more or less the same thing - personal details about you, connected to your identity, never make it outside of the company you shared it with. BUT, Apple is trading data and Google is not. This is the opposite of the public perception. That said, Microsoft gives itself permission to share data within their network of Microsoft controlled affiliates, subsidiaries and vendors. This SOUNDS like the worst of all three, but in reality it just means that they outsource some of their big data analysis, etc. I have not heard of a situation in which Microsoft has abused user privacy other than the Yahoo partnership fiasco from 2013 but users of all systems should remember that their Outlook account belongs to Microsoft, their gmail belongs to Google and their Facebook belongs to Facebook, etc. On a similar note, ever word typed in this forum belongs to Mobile Nations.

This is good to know, but I don't think I ever accused Google of sharing data with third parties. For me Google themselves crossed the line, by using user's property to track them. It is one thing to send a device's (and therefore user's) location when that user requests a service and completely another to continually track their movements. Google, Facebook, Microsoft and Apple have all inadvertently shared user information with the NSA, GCHQ etc, so I'd rather that type of information wasn't collected at all.

I don't really think that any mobile OS is inherently more secure that another, I do think some users are more inherently secure than others. That said, Google has a LOT of FUD being spread about them and most of it is being spread by hypocritical mouthpieces of companies that actually violate the tenants for which they want to accuse Google of violating. Yes, Google's business is data mining and turning that data into two things: 1. useful features and 2. (most important) dollars. Apple and Microsoft are in the same business with the same tools and they're doing the exact same two things with data - they just have a different way of describing it and a different twist on the feature-set.

Well everybody has a right to their opinions, but I can't agree with the assumption that all OSs are equal in terms of security. The whole point of closed ecosystems like those of Apple and Microsoft is that all apps are vetted prior to publication so users can be safeguarded against malware. Although I'm happy that apps downloaded from the Play store are safe, there's nothing stopping users from installing apps from somewhere else. Also, Apple do not store user's fingerprints on the device, but hash the image so that the fingerprint cannot be recreated, but HTC for instance stored the fingerprint as an unencrypted jpeg. Then there was the case where Samsung stored the PIN for their Knox secure folders in cleartext on the device. Why do you expect me to agree that the levels of security are the same when I can point to these and other serious breaches? You over time have shrugged each of these off, but I don't have the same investment in the ecosystem that you do, so I've no reason to be as lenient. By all means point to similar stories about Microsoft's mobile ecosystem if you can find them.

The simple fact is that Android is the new Windows with security not only not the top priority, but often compromised by OEMS. With Windows at least you can say it was programed before viruses were prevalent, but Google had Windows as an example to learn from and Microsoft learned from their brush with Code Red, such that most third party anti-virus/firewalls actually increase the attack surface on PCs (again, according to Mr Gibson, who recommends Microsoft Security Essentials.).

As for FUD, well you can't tell people who follow Microsoft anything about that, given the hysteria surrounding Windows 8, Windows 10 and Cortana. But I won't accept that accusation against me, because I've linked to reputable sources like the BBC and The Guardian, not some click-bait site that splits the story up into eight pages so you have to load more ads.

Finally, don't fixate on Stagefright, because I'd rejected Android long before that and long before I came to hated Google for not respecting my right to choose which phone I carry. My concern was and is exactly what other vulnerabilities there are and could these tiny drops ever club together to make a torrent. Exactly how many leaks does this bucket actually have?

 

[Aquila]

I'd agree with a lot of your points and I dont think that any mobile OS is set up with the user's privacy and security in mind.

And to be clear, when I'm talking about the FUD being spread, I'm talking about Tim Cook, The Verge (and other media), etc. as they have the responding to know better when they are speaking to the public. Most people will never read their chosen company's privacy statement, let alone research beyond that.

Microsoft has been in the tech media's scary monster clickbait crosshairs for awhile concerning windows 10/privacy settings and almost no reporting goes to what they actually do - it is all focused on what they could do with an improperly worded statement.

Nexus 6 Assassin Edition. Android Central Moderator, Gonfaloniere

 

[TechFreak1]

True only one part ! But the biggest part!

Yes and No, people got along just fine before the app-centric era however the younger generation know nothing beyond the world of their apps.

Most of the banking apps are web wrappers but given quite a few have embraced the digital era and incorporated scanning. Places still have plastic membership cards, however its obviously easier to carry a phone with everything on it as opposed to as wallet full of plastic cards.

On the flipside when you lost your wallet you had to order new cards and pins (plus perhaps you would've lost photos of loved ones as well) whereas with a phone you lose hell of a lot more. Digital credentials to your bank account (online banking), social media account access, email access, photos, diary notes, your frequently visited places (GPS logs) etc etc.

So yeah, as nice and convenient it is to have everything in one place... but it is beyond incomprehensibly inconvenient when you lose or have your phone stole. Similiarly the Experian hack - Experian was allegedly being used a cleaning room for companies to avoid identifiable information being leaked or stolen BUT having everything held (cleaned) by Experian meant - everything was/is easily identifiable...

 

[Aquila]

Sorry for getting off track on the privacy part - that's a fun debate that deserves its own thread(s). Here's my take on Windows as a mobile platform for the average joe:

Comments are average Joe's, not mine.

1. No one is using it (sorry WC people) - I'm concerned about the ways I communicate with my friends/family not being available. After all, when I switched from iOS I lost iMessage, Facetime, etc... what am I losing now by going from Android to Windows?
2. The sales person is telling me to buy something else. Aren't they the expert? If the Note 5 and iPhone 6sPlus aren't the best, why are they the most expensive?
3. Does this even work on my carrier?

That's all before picking it up. Those are hurdles. Now, the question of the day - once I (or Joe) pick up the device - what is there that is going to cause me to want to keep it and what is there that is going to make me want to throw it away? And most importantly, what isn't there?

Watching the live event now.

 

[MikeSo]

Honestly, I wonder why I keep staying with WP myself. I have no explanation. Seriously.

I guess it just feels good, and I like to be different.

 

[Davestrada]

We are the same.

 

[salvabigboy2]

If windows phone had a app store like an android or up a device then I would most definitely get a windows phone again! I love the design, camera, and os! It's soooo smooth and easy to use! Sadly, it's the app store that keeps me from getting another one

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[gordonfink]

Regular people, judging by the list of must-have OFFICIAL apps must mean entitled teens and tweens.

 

[worldspy99]

Regular people, judging by the list of must-have OFFICIAL apps must mean entitled teens and tweens.

They only want one app Snapchat...

 

[gordonfink]

They only want one app Snapchat...

Trust me - I have 3 kids in college. They all love my phone(s), especially the 930 and its display and camera quality. They tell me, in effect - when it gets SnapChat, I'm in. Until then, they are apple-heads.

I think that's just until they get out of college. Their politics will change then too (I HOPE).

 

[Timmerax]

I think the Windows Phone culture is the creative regular person. I find too many people want Apple or Android for the "label" or "prestige", not the simple fact that WP runs well, is easy to use and has all of the majors.
Getting a Windows Phone into someone's hand and letting them use it for a week and watching them along the way sometimes is surprising to the "diehards" because they hate to admit it but they can... "Like it."

 

[Ian_Superfly]

For me, wp is about smoothness, ease of operation, consistency, and ecosystem. Wp initially was the best in 3 out 4 categories. I was amazed by the different ui and how fast it was.

Cherry on top was MS office and Xbox integration, even tho I knew it needed lots of work and updating. Wp caters to every facet of my life and I love it!

You still feel that these points are valid?

Smoothness? IS a WP phone really better than a newer Android? If so, it IS not better than an iPhone.
Ease of operation? It is a matter of taste. I prefer the WP8.1 over Android/iOS but all three systems are pretty equal.
Consistency? NOT valid for W10M. A boring iPhone is just so much more polished and consistent that it is almost embarrassing to compare.
Ecosystem? What ecosystem?
XBOX and Office? Well, this is far better on Android/iOS than on WP8.1 and even W10M has a lot to prove before it is in the same league.

 

[hwangeruk]

You still feel that these points are valid?

Smoothness? IS a WP phone really better than a newer Android? If so, it IS not better than an iPhone.
Ease of operation? It is a matter of taste. I prefer the WP8.1 over Android/iOS but all three systems are pretty equal.
Consistency? NOT valid for W10M. A boring iPhone is just so much more polished and consistent that it is almost embarrassing to compare.
Ecosystem? What ecosystem?
XBOX and Office? Well, this is far better on Android/iOS than on WP8.1 and even W10M has a lot to prove before it is in the same league.

Things are never as black and white as made out.
I just got the iPhone 6S. Things I miss. My car reading my text out via Bluetooth (sure, Siri can do it, but its not automatic)
Try posing a question in an SMS text you dictate, Siri will just put the words, Windows is smart enough to put a ? at the end
I haven't found a way to Pin a contact to the front screen on an iPhone so I can just press a button for my fav people, like a tile.

The camera is only good in good light, but boy is it quick. Lumia needs serious work in the speed department.
The iPhone feels "messy", just so many icons. But all the apps are available. But then, I don't miss many on my Windows Phone.
(Windows has many of the big hitting apps) Only SKY in the UK, and Snapchat missing from the core apps people want.

I will probably get one of the 950 phones. To go with my 6S. (I also have a Note 4, and Blackberry - I actually like the Blackberry)
The iPhone is polished, but so is Windows 8.1 on phone. Windows 10 beta is terrible right now, at least on my 735 Lumia.

Office better on iOS? Er... no Android is messy if you don't have a "pure" Nexus or Cynagenmod. My Samsung with stock Samsung is a disaster (I wonder why people like these horrid things so much, but the Note 4 hardware is nice).

Pluses and minuses on all phones. Right now WP needs fast camera, a couple more key apps and Win10 mobile to really get things right as Windows 10 desktop has. Then, it might stand at least some chance for mass consumer adoption. Its already doing well in Enterprise sales, for obvious reasons I can expand upon if you wish :/

 

[tgp]

Right now WP needs <snip> a couple more key apps

In my opinion, this point right here overrides any advantages WP may have. And "couple" should be changed to "quite a few." When this gets covered, then we have something.

 

[Daniel Daring]

The whole discussion of it is for people or not really depends on what you want.

For this person you are referring to he wanted Pokemon Go, so his decision was made up already regardless of the state of Windows Phone.
So this example just means he wanted Pokemon, whether it will be good or not, noone knows. However there are people that are getting modern devices for this game.

The apps everyone uses had gone through a lack of updates fore a while, but with Universal Apps, pretty much every app listed in the lower part has been majorly updated, or is expected to be majorly updated over the next month or 2 on Windows 10 Mobile.

Right now W10M is in a partial reboot, and is using Universal Apps and Windows 10 in an attempt to fix the issue with apps. So far at least for the big Social Media apps, and even many of the banking apps, it appears to be working. The sad part is they dropped WP8.1 totally while they worked on the new universal app. This will cause a problem for low end phones, as many may not upgrade to W10M due to storage capacity limitations.

We will see, however i know I am keeping my 1520 while I watch what happens. The new phones as said in previous interviews are designed to give existing users an upgrade path for older phones. It will be a good 6 mo to a year before we really know if the new platform will be embraced, but universal apps for around 100m users is pretty attractive. One App, with scalable or variant interfaces, all platforms, this is definately going to help, we will see how much soon.

 

[Himay333]

Can you knowingly say you prefer the interface of WP when W10M takes nearly all UI elements from Android/iOS?

Umm do you mean circles and hamburgers? Because circles are being used fairly universally throughout everything digital, and MS is actually doing a good job of reducing the use of hamburgers...

The start screen is unlike ios/droid in every way.
Their settings interface is now by far the best experience out there (and nothing like the competitions).
Their notification center is similar to the others- but it's a notification center how different do you expect?

Truthfully the new design language is needed as wp8.1 feels dated and I'm looking forward to app designers taking on the new look. all in all there's nothing androidish or iosish about W10M except for circles and hamburgers - 2 whole elements... yeah... nearly all of them

 

[Himay333]

You still feel that these points are valid?

Smoothness? IS a WP phone really better than a newer Android? If so, it IS not better than an iPhone.

Depends on what hardware you're talking about - sure a moto-x is like butter, but a cheap android might start out okay, but give it time...

Ease of operation? It is a matter of taste. I prefer the WP8.1 over Android/iOS but all three systems are pretty equal.

Ok - I'll give you iOS on ease of operation - but Andriod?!?! Did you type that with a straight face?

Consistency? NOT valid for W10M. A boring iPhone is just so much more polished and consistent that it is almost embarrassing to compare.

Not sure where you are going here - if you mean consistency within the ui/ux then you can say what you want about W10M today, but you know and I know it's not finished and any inconsistency you see is due to that. If you are bringing apps into this, then whatever - none of the 3 have much consistency anymore.

Ecosystem? What ecosystem?

Uhh... the W10 ecosystem... you know the one with 110 million people on it in 10 weeks time...

XBOX and Office? Well, this is far better on Android/iOS than on WP8.1 and even W10M has a lot to prove before it is in the same league.

Actually W10M doesn't really. They are pretty much all the same - and the W10M apps will only get better as we get closer to launch.