WP10 - does it make sense to buy phone with it? How the future of this OS will look like?

[libra89]

Had to laugh at that one. No word of a lie the only phones I've EVER owned that had hardware issues have all been Windows Phones with fails or unnatural behaviours happening within days of owning them, obviously my bad luck but... First was my 1020, camera crapped out on day 8, then we got the 830 and it's capacitive back button being flaky (real annoyance at times), finally my 650 with it's "cold display don't want to play" issue.

As to whether WM makes sense or its future? The sense part comes down to one's expectations of the platform, will it do what you need it to and can you live without in regards to apps and features. Future, its presence in the marketplace and how things have been evolving are pretty good tell-tail signs that it is bleak in the sense, don't expect much to change in the short term. If you can accept those facts and are fine dealing with them then by all means go for it. Going by my experiences I'd be the last person to recommend as a "daily driver" though.

Wow that sucks that you have had all of those experiences, just on one platform.

For my statement, you are a true exception and yet, you're still trying to use the platform. Major props to you. If I was in your shoes, not sure that I would bother. I have had Android phones with issues before but it's generally been a lemon or just bad for me.

It's funny how we can choose to deal with things/people that make our lives a bit more difficult in the name of really liking something.

For me, I know that I get battery anxiety so I choose phones that I wouldn't find myself waking up in a panic wondering if my phone will be able to get through the next morning.
I say that but yet the 650 gives me that anxiety. Because I like the platform and I want to see where it goes, I still want to own one. My compromise is to not use it as a phone more than twice a week. My brother thinks this is strange but eh.

 

[fatclue_98]

Obviously you both are tolerant of WM inadequacies and are willing to accept ?good enough?, doubt the majority are though not even enterprise.

Tolerant of its inadequacies and being aware of its limitations are not in the same spectrum. I've said this before many times on these boards, there is no one size fits all.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

 

[slivy58]

For me, I know that I get battery anxiety so I choose phones that I wouldn't find myself waking up in a panic wondering if my phone will be able to get through the next morning.

Funny you should mention that cuz I get that too LOL. Know most of my phones are more than capable for my needs yet I've always got an Eagle Eye on that aspect.

 

[slivy58]

Tolerant of its inadequacies and being aware of its limitations are not in the same spectrum. I've said this before many times on these boards, there is no one size fits all.

Well if you are aware of its limitations and still use it then obviously you are willing to tolerate the inadequacies correct?... If it lacks then it has limits.

 

[anon(50597)]

Tolerant of its inadequacies and being aware of its limitations are not in the same spectrum. I've said this before many times on these boards, there is no one size fits all.

Sent from Alcatel Idol 4S with Windows via mTalk

Exactly. Every platform has it's inadequcies. It's about finding the one that is most tolerable. None are perfect.

Sent from mTalk

 

[mattiasnyc]

Obviously you both are tolerant of WM inadequacies and are willing to accept ?good enough?, doubt the majority are though not even enterprise.

Ok, but I posted a list of issues with the latest iOS version. Aren't we also saying that the Apple customers are equally willing to accept a "good enough" when so much is broken on the OS release?

I think the to me obvious answer is "yes". You go and buy an expensive beautiful device and when it doesn't work you do your best to look the other way, while complaining and trying to get it to work. I've seen this from Apple users for a long time now. Every time a new model has a crappy hard drive that breaks or a screen that breaks - all above average time-to-failure - it's always an exception. And if it isn't an exception on that device it's an exception on the model. Everything else is always almost perfect. That's because the user is in love with the device and company and can't get beyond that.

"Good enough" isn't a derogatory term, it's highly accurate of something very reasonable. You pick the parameters of what you need and want, and if the device 'ticks all the boxes' it is 'good enough'. What else do you need? Literally. If you need something else then it isn't 'good enough'. It's just that simple.

What is the benefit to me of having apps available that I will never ever use? Or games? How do I benefit? I don't. So, to me, omitting any such software doesn't change things one bit, except if the price comes down of course.

 

[fatclue_98]

Well if you are aware of its limitations and still use it then obviously you are willing to tolerate the inadequacies correct?... If it lacks then it has limits.

I'll be specific. No iOS device has a file manager, inadequate for my needs. Android has no Continuum equivalent, inadequate for my needs. Andromium is a beta joke, don't go there.

Windows 10 Mobile checks off my most pressing needs. If "good enough" fits my requirements, then I guess I'm just one of those who settles for 2nd best. Depending on my task for any given day, I trade Continuum for the goodness of the Hub on my Passport or the ability to access my desktop files via Blend.

You see, everybody has different needs. Please don't tell me what I do or don't need without knowing what my use case scenario is.

 

[slivy58]

Ok, but I posted a list of issues with the latest iOS version. Aren't we also saying that the Apple customers are equally willing to accept a "good enough" when so much is broken on the OS release?

I think the to me obvious answer is "yes". You go and buy an expensive beautiful device and when it doesn't work you do your best to look the other way, while complaining and trying to get it to work. I've seen this from Apple users for a long time now. Every time a new model has a crappy hard drive that breaks or a screen that breaks - all above average time-to-failure - it's always an exception. And if it isn't an exception on that device it's an exception on the model. Everything else is always almost perfect. That's because the user is in love with the device and company and can't get beyond that.

"Good enough" isn't a derogatory term, it's highly accurate of something very reasonable. You pick the parameters of what you need and want, and if the device 'ticks all the boxes' it is 'good enough'. What else do you need? Literally. If you need something else then it isn't 'good enough'. It's just that simple.

What is the benefit to me of having apps available that I will never ever use? Or games? How do I benefit? I don't. So, to me, omitting any such software doesn't change things one bit, except if the price comes down of course.

From my experiences and going by those around me that are using the competition, Android/iOS has not been nowhere near as problematic as WM.

If you look at phones stats by platforms that are in use today, Android 1.5+ billion, iOS 1+ billion, with Windows coming in at 400 million DEVICES. Now if we were reeeal generous and took 50 million of that as being WM it pales in comparison to the others, it would then only stand to reason why you'd hear more complaints coming from the “other camps”.

 

[slivy58]

I'll be specific. No iOS device has a file manager, inadequate for my needs. Android has no Continuum equivalent, inadequate for my needs. Andromium is a beta joke, don't go there.

Windows 10 Mobile checks off my most pressing needs. If "good enough" fits my requirements, then I guess I'm just one of those who settles for 2nd best. Depending on my task for any given day, I trade Continuum for the goodness of the Hub on my Passport or the ability to access my desktop files via Blend.

You see, everybody has different needs. Please don't tell me what I do or don't need without knowing what my use case scenario is.

I’m not sure how “WM still has major issues with limiting factors and can't run reliably across same devices” becomes “WM isn’t for you so get out”. We were pretty much pointing out facts that have been proven and if you are not seeing its pitfalls, works for you and satisfies your needs, then all the more power to you.

As with any platform I can see the good and bad in them all, the one thing I won’t do is sugar-coat the facts because it fits my needs. Like Android for instance, works for me but might be a tad too overwhelming and complicated for many people I know, and even though we haven’t had any problems personally we’ll point out security issues associated w/Droid. When it comes down to it iPhone is my recommendation of choice as it works for the masses, we will point out its limitations, how Apple has a stranglehold, and the price(s) to be paid. Same goes for WM, I may use it myself yet won’t hesitate to point out its idiosyncrasies as well.

So you may look at my comments as an attack on you personally but to me it is a way of letting the unsuspecting know that WM still needs much finessing, simple as that.

 

[mattiasnyc]

From my experiences and going by those around me that are using the competition, Android/iOS has not been nowhere near as problematic as WM.

My LG G2X was far, far, FAAAAR more problematic than my 950. Doesn't even compare. Now, of course, you can say that my phone was old and only received two updates (!!!), but so what? Does it mean Android sucks? Or LG?

Your experiences are your experiences and nobody else's. We all have experiences though, so I go by what I have experienced. I don't care if others had problem X with their 950 unless I can verify that it's something I'm likely to encounter (meaning I do wish they have a good experience, but it doesn't detract from mine).

If you look at phones stats by platforms that are in use today, Android 1.5+ billion, iOS 1+ billion, with Windows coming in at 400 million DEVICES. Now if we were reeeal generous and took 50 million of that as being WM it pales in comparison to the others, it would then only stand to reason why you'd hear more complaints coming from the ?other camps?.

The list I posted wasn't from users, it was from a tech journalist who went through all the issues with the latest iOS release along with solutions or workarounds to them. But of course you're right, with a much larger user base you'll see a lot more complaints, I don't dispute that at all. The question is how users respond to issues they encounter.

Look, my main problem with a lot of complaints is that there's no attempt to figure out just how to evaluate things. So, for example, if a user does something on the device and the device doesn't respond as expected, what is the procedure for "evaluating" what happened? How does one figure out if this was user error, third party error, a software bug, or a hardware malfunction. Once the procedure for figuring that out has been set, IF we are to compare W10M with other mobile OS, then we have to use the same procedure for evaluating them, otherwise the comparison is flawed.

So, if a user tries something, it doesn't work, and then he goes off on a forum and complains about it, and we are supposed to take that complaint at face value as being true, factually true, then the exact same thing applies to evaluating any other mobile OS. And if a user complains but then says that everything is great and this is the greatest device since 199ever, then we shall certainly do the same ourselves concerning our devices.

In other words, if personal experience counts as evidence for why W10M is riddled with problems, then personal experience counts as evidence for why W10M is not riddled with problems. See what I'm saying? If we demand that bugs are verified by official tech support before we acknowledge them for iOS, then certainly the same shall apply here, etc.

I'm all for evaluating alternatives, but the bar should be placed equally for all.

 

[fatclue_98]

I?m not sure how ?WM still has major issues with limiting factors and can't run reliably across same devices? becomes ?WM isn?t for you so get out?. We were pretty much point out facts that have been proven and if you are not seeing its pitfalls, works for you and satisfies your needs, then all the more power to you.

As with any platform I can see the good and bad in them all, the one thing I won?t do is sugar-coat the facts because it fits my needs. Like Android for instance, works for me but might be a tad too overwhelming and complicated for many people I know, and even though we haven?t had any problems personally we?ll point out security issues associated w/Droid. When it comes down to it iPhone is my recommendation of choice as it works for the masses, we will point out its limitations, how Apple has a stranglehold, and the price(s) to be paid. Same goes for WM, I may use it myself yet won?t hesitate to point out its idiosyncrasies as well.

So you may look at my comments as an attack on you personally but to me it is a way of letting the unsuspecting know that WM still needs much finessing, simple as that.

No, I don't think you're attacking me personally. I just think you have an agenda for some reason. I point out to the "unsuspecting" what W10M can do while you are obsessed with what it can't do. Your needs aren't everybody else's and you don't want to or are unable to understand that. I personally don't recommend W10M to anybody I know because it's not my place. I point out what it can and can't do based on what they want. But only if I'm asked my opinion.

 

[slivy58]

No, I don't think you're attacking me personally. I just think you have an agenda for some reason. I point out to the "unsuspecting" what W10M can do while you are obsessed with what it can't do. Your needs aren't everybody else's and you don't want to or are unable to understand that. I personally don't recommend W10M to anybody I know because it's not my place. I point out what it can and can't do based on what they want. But only if I'm asked my opinion.

No agenda, just the facts as myself and many others have seen/experienced them so not sure where that is a crime. Again, you are making it out as if I'm trying to sway you or everyone else's preference yet it matters not to me what one has chosen to use.

Do believe (correct me if I'm wrong) the title of this thread is "WP10 - does it make sense to buy phone with it? How the future of this OS will look like?", unless I missed something where does it say "positive experiences need only apply"?


So having been around and using WP/WM since 2012 along with seeing it evolve, using the other two platforms, then having found out the cons outweigh the pros do you really think I'm going to tout it as being a good choice or worthy, of course not. Not saying there aren't any good qualities but if as a whole it doesn't gel then it becomes a negative, simple as that. Don't know too many that would put up with it in its present state especially if most fixes for an ailment were a hard reset. The app-gap has grown from my perspective, the platform is still inconsistent in nature and unstable at times, the store is a disgrace, and on and on we could go.

Oh ya, did praise the 650 somewhat, more so on the hardware front because the OS really has a way of ruining a good thing.

 

[Byrese]

If you can find a W10M phone on a deal why not? There's no doubt that android and ios are better in must respects. But after using android for almost a year and coming back I can tell you that W10M, IMO, is far easier to operate and does better at quickly communicating via text or social media. And at the end it the day that's really all you need for the mist part.

The thing is that at this point to have a W10M you have to be fan. I love Windows. If u like it just do it. Just don't do it at full price.

Sent from mTalk

 

[Aleksandar Grbic]

People who are defending Windows Phone here (including myself) are doing that because the only thing that keeps us going with this platform is that little doze of hope. Besides that (and this comes from a person who is using WM since 2011), I suggest you to either go with Android or iOS unless you want to go to 99.9999% of the webpages and services and realize that under download section, your OS will NEVER EVER exist. Windows Phone in the most harsh way despite how ugly it might sound to us fans is absolutely in every way IRRELEVANT platform, its loosing its already poor market share and even the most biggest companies like Google, Facebook etc. didn't even bother to build their apps for it after like 7 years of the existence.

This platform is not getting any better and the updates we are getting, endless hotfixes which fix X and break Y things are not changing anything. Until MS invests a lot of money in this platform, unless they start caring for it and give it some love, it will continue sinking until it hits the very bottom and its getting there very fast.

There, super honest opinion of a huge WM fan.

 

[mattiasnyc]

People who are defending Windows Phone here (including myself) are doing that because the only thing that keeps us going with this platform is that little doze of hope.

Speak for yourself. I'm a) pointing out bad arguments and inaccuracies as I see them, and b) "defending" W10M because it does what I want it to do, and it does it on a great phone I got for a great price.

 

[Pynchmail]

Phones are generally affordable. Get what you are comfortable with. Android if you need certain apps, can accept slightly poorer security and privacy. Windows phone if you are ok with the limited available apps, are happy with mobile websites and like the user interface. Apple if you like the ecosystem and don't mind paying a premium for the phone. Use it and if you don't like, you can migrate to another ecosystem, moving to/from Windows to Android is very easy. Moving to/from iOS is a little more involved but still not hard. Each system has its pros and cons.

 

[libra89]

I'll be specific. No iOS device has a file manager, inadequate for my needs. Android has no Continuum equivalent, inadequate for my needs. Andromium is a beta joke, don't go there.

Windows 10 Mobile checks off my most pressing needs. If "good enough" fits my requirements, then I guess I'm just one of those who settles for 2nd best. Depending on my task for any given day, I trade Continuum for the goodness of the Hub on my Passport or the ability to access my desktop files via Blend.

You see, everybody has different needs. Please don't tell me what I do or don't need without knowing what my use case scenario is.

Well said.
Your post is important.

Had a funny thing happen just now. A friend shared a video on GroupMe. I usually keep my phones on silent.

Viewing it on iOS, it had no sound and I was confused.
Did the same on my Android, it plays the sound.
Of course, I had to see how it went on WM, and it was the same deal as Android.
Apparently, your phone can't be on silent for the ringer if you want to be able to hear sound from GroupMe.

I'm sure that there are other funny quirks haha.

 

[slivy58]

Speak for yourself. I'm a) pointing out bad arguments and inaccuracies as I see them, and b) "defending" W10M because it does what I want it to do, and it does it on a great phone I got for a great price.

OK... It works for you great, doesn't work for me per se, not so great... Does that mean "WE" (you and I) are wrong? No it does not, it's what is called a "DIFFERENCE OF OPINION"

Not sure why you are on such the defensive when like anything, experiences DO differ. Then you accuse others that their arguments are bad and inaccurate to which I'd say again, difference of opinion.

Obviously having used all three platforms I can see, from my perspective, the deficiencies in WM, if in my opinion they fall short for my needs I'll state those facts here, anyone can choose to read or ignore simple as that.

 

[fatclue_98]

OK... It works for you great, doesn't work for me per se, not so great... Does that mean "WE" (you and I) are wrong? No it does not, it's what is called a "DIFFERENCE OF OPINION"

Not sure why you are on such the defensive when like anything, experiences DO differ. Then you accuse others that their arguments are bad and inaccurate to which I'd say again, difference of opinion.

Obviously having used all three platforms I can see, from my perspective, the deficiencies in WM, if in my opinion they fall short for my needs I'll state those facts here, anyone can choose to read or ignore simple as that.

Why didn't you say that before? There's no denying W10M is deeply flawed, but it remains the easiest and most dependable for the most basic functions of a communications device. I realize the younger generation is more into texting and Twitter than actually having a conversation. That's cool, but don't assume the rest of the world is like that. With the exception of Tizen, I've owned and used models from every single mobile OS ever released in the US. Of the remaining 4, Windows gives the most complete experience when it comes to communicating. I mean, these are phones right? We can debate apps and app stores all day long, and Windows will lose that battle for the most part. But the crucial ones that are part of the core OS stand on their own against any other system.

The ability to expand is clearly on the deficit side of the ledger, but that may soon change courtesy of the Qualcomm SD835. Let's re-visit this thread a year or so from now and compare notes. I got $20 on the Tortoise.

 

[mattiasnyc]

OK... It works for you great, doesn't work for me per se, not so great... Does that mean "WE" (you and I) are wrong? No it does not, it's what is called a "DIFFERENCE OF OPINION"

Not sure why you are on such the defensive when like anything, experiences DO differ. Then you accuse others that their arguments are bad and inaccurate to which I'd say again, difference of opinion.

Obviously having used all three platforms I can see, from my perspective, the deficiencies in WM, if in my opinion they fall short for my needs I'll state those facts here, anyone can choose to read or ignore simple as that.

You're completely missing the point and failing to separate what I'm actually saying and what I'm not saying, and in doing so you're (I hope) inadvertently merging the terms "opinion" and "fact" to mean essentially the same thing. Opinions we all have and we have a right to them, but facts are what they are. I'm far more annoyed by the state of public discourse these days than I am of several facts that are being discussed.

So when I'm saying that you have your experiences and I have mine, I'm not saying that your experience is invalid or that what you say happened didn't happen, what I'm saying is there's a limit to what broader knowledge we can draw from supposed personal experience. So to give an example;

There's one poster who has declared W10M dead since back in April (I think), and he used certain arguments to support that assertion. One argument was that there are no banking apps that allow for payments, and I stated that mine does allow for that. His own experience of his own bank not having an app or not allowing it in-app is limited to him and his bank, and the broader statement that no such apps exist period is simply factually untrue. He further more explained that there was no more support of the OS and no more development - back in April - and then he repeated that claim recently; but between then and now we've had several new phones come to market, several updates, and several statements by MS officials about upcoming updates. So, again, his experience of not getting what he wants is valid, but his extrapolation was factually inaccurate.

So when I accuse people like him of having bad arguments that can be objectively verified. It's NOT a matter of opinion. His argument was that platform WM lacks X and therefore Y is the result. If I show that X exists then his argument falls apart. None of that is "different opinion", it is simple logic.

So you're right, if you state that WM doesn't rise to what you need then that's your opinion and I don't dispute that. All I was saying was that if any single user's experience is enough to make a broader statement then this is surely true for any single user for any OS. If that is not the case then we have a logical problem, a fundamental problem with reasoning. So again, we can possibly try to compare the platforms based on different parameters but we're going to run into some problems for some of them. App-gap is an easy enough parameter to use as an example: I agree that the other two have far more apps available, so if the parameter is just "How many apps?" then it's not much of a discussion to be had. Of course, a million apps that nobody uses is of use to nobody, so if the question is "How many apps that a person needs and uses?" then the answer might be slightly different. Still though, it's easy enough to evaluate, and in the context of the thread it's partially a personal decision that matters - 'do I get what I want out of this?'

But if we're talking about bugs and errors etc it's a completely different matter and far harder. I'm totally willing to compare devices or OS and we can pick whatever parameters you want and then decide how to evaluate the parameters or data, and then we can come to a conclusion. But as was already pointed out, just how are you going to quantify "bugs"? By reports by users on a forum? By bloggers on their blogs? By more 'recognized' and 'respected' journalists? By official admission? And then once they're confirmed, how are they going to be weighted? Do we judge Samsung by the burning phones, or just that model? Do we judge Apple by the recent reports of OS problems, or no? Is MS' Win Phone inferior because it doesn't have as many phones on sale on the market as Android - and if that's how it is then what about Apple?

See what I'm saying? It's about being equal in our evaluation and clear in what we say and don't say. I know that's an acquired taste these days but you can't blame a guy for aiming higher, can you? I'm by no means super-clear myself, but I try to be.