1. EspHack's Avatar
    ignore the catchy tittle, this article is a pretty good read I think https://arstechnica.co.uk/gadgets/20...hone-analysis/

    it rings true of microsoft and how they deal with hardware, its frustrating to say the least, half of me wants to understand their position as they dont want to get OEMs mad, but they should at least declare their own hardware to be for fans only, so there's a clear distinction and they can update it regularly, as FANS would expect and demand
    kaktus1389 and xandros9 like this.
    05-01-2017 12:00 PM
  2. kaktus1389's Avatar
    But the story with Surface is more unsettling. In its analyst call, Microsoft ascribed the drop in Surface revenue to "product end-of-lifecycle dynamics," whatever that means. The company's 10Q filing used rather clearer language: Microsoft simply didn't sell as many Surface systems.
    I wouldn't say this is a bad sign at all because this simply means that OEM devices sold better than Microsoft's own which is basically one of their goals - to inspire OEMs with new Windows devices. We also shouldn't forget that Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book are now almost 2 years old and that it's likely that Microsoft is going to come up with refreshed devices in Fall & people simply don't need a new device every year, especially a device that costs as much as Surface Pro 4 / Surface book does (not to mention Surface Studio and that MS didn't actually expect to sell many of them just because of the price).

    I wouldn't call anything regarding Surface a failure like the author of the article calls it, because it clearly is making money and is getting good reviews & 2 in 1 market share is constantly growing. I don't think it's doing bad at all and all improvements are going to come on time, Microsoft knows that they can't release a product if it's not ready for release (perhaps they learned that from Windows 10 Mobile).
    05-01-2017 01:23 PM
  3. Zachary Boddy's Avatar
    I don't think we have anything to worry about here. This is another instance where someone is over analyzing a situation and spinning it around for no reason. Surface isn't going away anytime soon. In fact, it's doing an amazing job doing exactly what Microsoft intended it to do: inspire other OEM's and set a precedent.
    shmsnh, EMitchell, EspHack and 2 others like this.
    05-01-2017 09:27 PM
  4. Drael646464's Avatar
    Jesus, storm in a teacup, windows tablets are the fastest growing segment of tablets, while Samsung and apple are losing year on year, every year. Surface is just due for a refresh is all.
    Player Piano and EMitchell like this.
    05-02-2017 03:53 AM
  5. etphoto's Avatar
    The mere fact OEMs are producing Surface like devices is proof of the Surface success.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    05-02-2017 06:26 AM
  6. Drael646464's Avatar
    The mere fact OEMs are producing Surface like devices is proof of the Surface success.

    Twitter: @PhotographyET
    Well not only that, both Samsung and apple basically are aping the surface, in an attempt to try and reverse their negative growth (dunno if its working, because the ipad pro is their least popular tablet - my guess is probably not).

    I thought everyone knew that windows tablets are hawt right now.
    05-02-2017 06:42 AM
  7. Wbutchart1's Avatar
    I'm eyeing a surface like device for my next laptop, a linx 12x64, a surface clone with lower specs, build....and price.

    For me a surface is too expensive but it's technology and ergonomics trickling down through the oems means that consumers like myself get in on the act fairly quick. This is one key reason why windows tablets are gaining momentum and others are stagnating or decreasing in sales.
    EMitchell likes this.
    05-02-2017 11:34 AM
  8. Spectrum90's Avatar
    Microsoft failed to create a high-end hardware brand to compete with Apple in the consumer market.
    A pessimistic could say that Windows is only for people that can't afford Apple products, although Google will soon release its converged OS as better alternative for this market.

    The Surface Laptop is really the last attempt. It doesn't add anything new to the market. It's just design and brand. If Microsoft can't sell this product in decent quantities, they should shut down the hardware business.
    05-02-2017 01:27 PM
  9. TgeekB's Avatar
    Microsoft failed to create a high-end hardware brand to compete with Apple in the consumer market.
    A pessimistic could say that Windows is only for people that can't afford Apple products, although Google will soon release its converged OS as better alternative for this market.

    The Surface Laptop is really the last attempt. It doesn't add anything new to the market. It's just design and brand. If Microsoft can't sell this product in decent quantities, they should shut down the hardware business.
    How about give is a little time.
    If people purchase some of the lower cost ones and end up liking them, they're more likely to spend on high end. Lets see where this goes with education, students, etc. before we jump out the window (pun intended).

    Sent from mTalk on my SP4
    libra89 likes this.
    05-02-2017 03:57 PM
  10. mtf1380's Avatar
    I don't know...just the shear fact that EVERY tech and news oriented television show this year is sporting a Surface Pro is a BIG check in the win column alone, and worth its weight in advertising gold and exposure - and the ones that try to convey that they are tech progressive are also using the Surface Book. Microsoft could not have got this much positive exposure if they had spent every penny they put into the Surface Line on advertising. AND, I sincerely doubt they paid for much of the placement (excluding the NFL, of course).
    Keith White Jr, TgeekB and libra89 like this.
    05-02-2017 04:34 PM
  11. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Microsoft failed to create a high-end hardware brand to compete with Apple in the consumer market.
    A pessimistic could say that Windows is only for people that can't afford Apple products, although Google will soon release its converged OS as better alternative for this market.

    The Surface Laptop is really the last attempt. It doesn't add anything new to the market. It's just design and brand. If Microsoft can't sell this product in decent quantities, they should shut down the hardware business.

    The Surface brand was never about Apple volumes of sales. That would detract from the OEM's.

    MS built Surface as a halo brand to push the tech and show the OEM's what could be done.

    It was also to get OEM's to bring well built and quality devices to market and in that regard it has worked.
    libra89 likes this.
    05-02-2017 04:46 PM
  12. Spectrum90's Avatar
    The Surface brand was never about Apple volumes of sales. That would detract from the OEM's.

    MS built Surface as a halo brand to push the tech and show the OEM's what could be done.

    It was also to get OEM's to bring well built and quality devices to market and in that regard it has worked.
    That was a good excuse for Surface and Surface pro, but not for Book and Laptop. What new tech did Surface Book or Laptop introduce?

    Mac revenue increased 14% last quarter. iPad revenue fell 12%. Surface revenue fell 26%, even though Microsoft introduced two new products Surface Book and Surface Studio, and expanded distribution of Surface Hub.

    Customers have the option of buying cheaper Windows PCs from OEMs, but they keep choosing Apple premium hardware and ignoring Microsoft premium hardware.
    05-02-2017 05:50 PM
  13. Drael646464's Avatar
    That was a good excuse for Surface and Surface pro, but not for Book and Laptop. What new tech did Surface Book or Laptop introduce?

    Mac revenue increased 14% last quarter. iPad revenue fell 12%. Surface revenue fell 26%, even though Microsoft introduced two new products Surface Book and Surface Studio, and expanded distribution of Surface Hub.

    Customers have the option of buying cheaper Windows PCs from OEMs, but they keep choosing Apple premium hardware and ignoring Microsoft premium hardware.
    Macbooks -I won't argue they haven't been creeping up over the years. They have received a lot of design focus by apple.

    I don't think anyone needs to argue whether laptop or book contain technological advances however, its clear they do.

    The surfaces success: Windows 10's tablet market share is increasing, while apple and samsungs is decreasing (has for years), and clearly the laptop was released because notebooks are "trending" as a form of PC, and they want to tackle the MacBook and the chromebook.

    The surface pro sales have only dipped because it needs a refresh, it most certainly has been popular - particularly with young tech early adopters. It's just getting long in the tooth, as technology does. Not that surface sales was the point - Microsoft needs to grow the platform, not their hardware line.

    I also would not say other OEMs are "not premium". There are definitely OEM partners who have premium products that are selling well. If you look at overall market share of notebooks, they are not majority MacBook. MacBook merely dominates some niches.

    I think they will want the laptop to decrease MacBook sales. And I think it will, laptop is after all a faster, longer lasting, lighter, better looking machine. There's not really any metric on which I can see the MacBook is better.

    As an aside, I thought we might get some MacBook fans feathers ruffled up by this release when I saw the laptop released. I wonder what they are doing to deride this defensively over at imore :P
    Last edited by Drael646464; 05-02-2017 at 07:24 PM.
    05-02-2017 07:09 PM
  14. ramius's Avatar
    I think Ars Technica always has a very nerdy approach to technology. And that proves they have misunderstood the most innovative bit about Surface.

    If you think that the Surface Book and studio is not innovative or a good investment because of a year old processor, you probably shouldnt be buying Microsoft products at all. You should stick to the clunkly Alienware or similar products.

    People buy this because of the innovative ways you can use it. Both as a drawing board, tablet and laptop. Powered by perhaps the best Wndows version ever, which is now more and more optimized for touch than ever.

    Apple based their success on appealing to creatives and people who needed good tools. This is easy to prove. Then when the masses saw how cool they were, the rest of the crowd started buying them. But then Apple lost their way by designing products for the masses, instead of bringing actual usefull innovation to those who need it.

    Microsoft gave us a 2-in-1, or 3-in-1, while Apple spent a year on making an emoji board.
    Drael646464, mtf1380 and libra89 like this.
    05-03-2017 05:42 AM
  15. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think Ars Technica always has a very nerdy approach to technology. And that proves they have misunderstood the most innovative bit about Surface.

    If you think that the Surface Book and studio is not innovative or a good investment because of a year old processor, you probably shouldnt be buying Microsoft products at all. You should stick to the clunkly Alienware or similar products.

    People buy this because of the innovative ways you can use it. Both as a drawing board, tablet and laptop. Powered by perhaps the best Wndows version ever, which is now more and more optimized for touch than ever.

    Apple based their success on appealing to creatives and people who needed good tools. This is easy to prove. Then when the masses saw how cool they were, the rest of the crowd started buying them. But then Apple lost their way by designing products for the masses, instead of bringing actual usefull innovation to those who need it.

    Microsoft gave us a 2-in-1, or 3-in-1, while Apple spent a year on making an emoji board.
    MSFT is totally the new apple.
    ramius likes this.
    05-03-2017 07:11 AM
  16. Timbre70's Avatar
    It's been juiced.
    05-03-2017 07:25 AM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    It's been juiced.
    Like a spastics chin?
    05-03-2017 07:28 AM

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