11-04-2014 12:26 PM
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  1. Bobvfr's Avatar
    I have read this entire thread and very disappointed no one has done the "Are you sure you aren't dead" joke.....




    Bob
    theefman, Chris_Kez and pj737 like this.
    10-31-2014 02:55 PM
  2. crelim's Avatar
    Security company ad on TV-

    "We will guard your home with 24-hour continuous video recording of your property. Any criminal activity will be recorded."

    One day a customer of the advertised security system gets robbed. Customer calls the security company -

    "Can you please pull the video from the incident last night when our home was burglarized"

    Response from security company -

    "We are sorry but our 24-hour continuous recording of the property only provides one image per hour. We are sorry to regret that the robbery took place outside of that time frame. Please have a nice day."

    Again, the bias on this forum is profoundly deafening.
    Technically, even a continuous video is 24 or 30 times per second. This same "continuous video" is insufficient for analyzing a car crash slow motion type capture while it is sufficient for recording a robbery. Why? Because robbers don't move faster than 30 times per second while a car does. So When MSFT band takes many HR samples per minute, it is sufficient to track HR variations and dynamics for the band's specific and advertised health features. And in exercise mode, it goes all-in as the HR changes rapidly.

    I really hope you stop playing the bias card and discuss science and technicality. I am merely trying to share my knowledge and experience with you politely and with patience because I personally think expecting more from a product is a consumer's right and should be executed, however giving out misinformation that this product does one HR sample per hour is factually incorrect and quickly becoming a distraction. The device displays hourly data averaged from many many BPM estimates it made during that hour.

    If you still think this information has been biased, I apologize. I tried hard to simply lay out facts about hardware as an engineer and I have failed to explain you what sampling rate has to do with calling a sensor continuous.
    10-31-2014 04:06 PM
  3. crelim's Avatar
    1 measurement per hour is useless. What about the other 59:59 in the hour? Misleading.
    Microsoft made it seem like the Band was taking samples at frequent intervals, like 1x1s, 1x5s, 1x10s, etc. Not 1x3600s

    Hopefully there is a manual option to check, mine has yet to arrive.

    EDIT: Does anyone actually know how many times it records in an hour?
    EDIT2: I am guessing not .. Sure they have fancy algorithms, this thread is confusing me.
    I will repeat again: It is NOT 1 measurement per hour! The graph that displays the data shows it that way. The band has smarts and it can do anywhere from many measurements per second to a few per minute depending on what it senses your HR variation is. In my daily routine, it turns on at least 15-20 times during an hour and what I am walking it keeps it on even longer because it knows my HR needs to collected more frequently.

    See the sleep graph I posted in this thread. You can easily see even during sleep with minimal motion it does >10 measurements per hour!

    Edit: See sleep graph below.
    wp_ss_20141030_0002.jpg
    10-31-2014 04:14 PM
  4. Yonic Boom's Avatar
    This is hilarious.

    I'm going to pick up one of these later today.
    10-31-2014 04:18 PM
  5. runamuck83's Avatar
    Wow... glad people can find something to complain about. I was getting worried.
    10-31-2014 04:41 PM
  6. pj737's Avatar
    I will repeat again: It is NOT 1 measurement per hour! The graph that displays the data shows it that way. The band has smarts and it can do anywhere from many measurements per second to a few per minute depending on what it senses your HR variation is. In my daily routine, it turns on at least 15-20 times during an hour and what I am walking it keeps it on even longer because it knows my HR needs to collected more frequently.

    See the sleep graph I posted in this thread. You can easily see even during sleep with minimal motion it does >10 measurements per hour!

    Edit: See sleep graph below.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why does everyone keep defaulting to the granularity of HRM measurements WHEN SLEEPING. Thank you for pointing out that Band's HR monitor is analyzing HR data at least a few times an hour when sleeping.... I NEVER argued that... my point has (and has always been) that the heart rate monitor is NOT taking my reading consistently throughout the day WHEN I AM PHYSICALLY ACTIVE. I mean heck, I'm no rocket scientist or anything but I would think that a FITNESS TRACKING DEVICE would want to gather heart rate data when I'm most active, no? And to those that think the device is indeed taking frequent pings on my HR throughout the day when I am active, YOU ARE WRONG. How do I know? Because the LED on the optical sensor is NOT ON. Yes, people... if the green LED is not on, the Band is NOT taking any HR readings. Please don't try to say Microsoft has some other magical sensor device(s) that can extrapolate with unique algorithms and obtain an accurate HR WITHOUT the physical optical sensor being activated. Seriously... it's ridiculous. And no, like some people on this forum have suggested, the Band does NOT activate the HRM when you begin to move around (that would be GREAT)... or even move around vigorously... or even move around vigorously for long periods. I can run up and down my stairs 10 times in my home and TRIPLE my resting heart rate yet the HRM will stay OFF. I can sweat and get my body temperature up way high and the HRM will stay still stay off. Dead as a door knob.

    I've said it once, twice and will say it a million times... the bias on this forum is deafening.
    teemulehtinen likes this.
    10-31-2014 04:47 PM
  7. runamuck83's Avatar
    Hey bud - we get it, you don't like it. Take it back and spare the rest of us your further rantings.
    10-31-2014 04:51 PM
  8. Upstate Dunadan's Avatar
    I have to point out, by your definition, a "continuous" morphine drip would KILL you.
    10-31-2014 04:55 PM
  9. Chris_Kez's Avatar
    Sounds like you have a defective device; hopefully a replacement will work correctly. Keep us posted. Cheers.
    10-31-2014 04:55 PM
  10. pj737's Avatar
    Hey bud - we get it, you don't like it. Take it back and spare the rest of us your further rantings.
    Nah, I'd rather keep it and bicker... if people didn't bicker technology would never improve.

    BTW, you can do yourself a favor and spare yourself from my rants by not clicking on the thread. It's not that hard really.
    10-31-2014 04:56 PM
  11. spaulagain's Avatar
    Why does everyone keep defaulting to the granularity of HRM measurements WHEN SLEEPING. Thank you for pointing out that Band's HR monitor is analyzing HR data at least a few times an hour when sleeping.... I NEVER argued that... my point has (and has always been) that the heart rate monitor is NOT taking my reading consistently throughout the day WHEN I AM PHYSICALLY ACTIVE. I mean heck, I'm no rocket scientist or anything but I would think that a FITNESS TRACKING DEVICE would want to gather heart rate data when I'm most active, no? And to those that think the device is indeed taking frequent pings on my HR throughout the day when I am active, YOU ARE WRONG. How do I know? Because the LED on the optical sensor is NOT ON. Yes, people... if the green LED is not on, the Band is NOT taking any HR readings. Please don't try to say Microsoft has some other magical sensor device(s) that can extrapolate with unique algorithms and obtain an accurate HR WITHOUT the physical optical sensor being activated. Seriously... it's ridiculous. And no, like some people on this forum have suggested, the Band does NOT activate the HRM when you begin to move around (that would be GREAT)... or even move around vigorously... or even move around vigorously for long periods. I can run up and down my stairs 10 times in my home and TRIPLE my resting heart rate yet the HRM will stay OFF. I can sweat and get my body temperature up way high and the HRM will stay still stay off. Dead as a door knob.

    I've said it once, twice and will say it a million times... the bias on this forum is deafening.
    Dude, you're outta control. Give it up, take the damn thing back and shut up.

    It's clear Microsoft made the device smart enough to know when its valuable to track data and when its a waste of resources.

    At this point you're just discrediting yourself by trying to continue your argument because it's just a frivolous attack on Microsoft. No one here values your argument anymore, you're just ranting. People made the effort to help you inquire about this and figure it out. But instead of acknowledging that effort and recognizing the reasonable direction MS took, you continue this childish rant.
    10-31-2014 04:58 PM
  12. JamesDax's Avatar
    Dude, you're outta control. Give it up, take the damn thing back and shut up.

    It's clear Microsoft made the device smart enough to know when its valuable to track data and when its a waste of resources.

    At this point you're just discrediting yourself by trying to continue your argument because it's just a frivolous attack on Microsoft. No one here values your argument anymore, you're just ranting. People made the effort to help you inquire about this and figure it out. But instead of acknowledging that effort and recognizing the reasonable direction MS took, you continue this childish rant.
    So much of this^
    10-31-2014 05:05 PM
  13. pj737's Avatar
    Dude, you're outta control. Give it up, take the damn thing back and shut up.

    It's clear Microsoft made the device smart enough to know when its valuable to track data and when its a waste of resources.

    At this point you're just discrediting yourself by trying to continue your argument because it's just a frivolous attack on Microsoft. No one here values your argument anymore, you're just ranting. People made the effort to help you inquire about this and figure it out. But instead of acknowledging that effort and recognizing the reasonable direction MS took, you continue this childish rant.
    Ahhh, fanboyism at its finest. No need to get all bent out of shape. You may want to check your stress levels with your new Band. Oh, wait, it doesn't do that even if Microsoft claims it does. Bummer! I'll have you know I've been a Microsoft guy for eons... own a Surface and Yoga 2 Pro and LOVE THEM. I also have an android phone, a Samsung Gear 2, Mio Alpha, Basis watch and an Apple Ipod (do they make those anymore?). I buy products based on design, functionality, reliability and value. I could care less who the manufacturer is.

    I'm here to inform others (and hope for solutions that Microsoft will provide in the near future) that the device does NOT offer CONTINUOUS and 24 HOUR heart rate monitoring as Microsoft claims it does. I will post information from future reviews that will also agree with me... I'm not expecting a Microsoft-centric forum to agree with me... but a lot of people that visit this forum are not regulars. They may be visiting this forum for the first time looking for feedback/help/etc with their Band. Most people won't even register... they will just read the posts. I am happy to share this information with others so people can make INFORMED decisions from HONEST, UNBIASED users. Information and opinions from fanboys is quite frankly, useless. Again, not here to **** on this forum. I'm actually actively engaged in all other threads;; I'm reading all of them. A lot of good feedback and information. Good and bad.

    If you don't like what I have to type, you can just ignore this thread. Freedom of speech is something you should learn to embrace.
    10-31-2014 05:11 PM
  14. spaulagain's Avatar
    Ahhh, fanboyism at its finest. No need to get all bent out of shape. You may want to check your stress levels with your new Band. Oh, wait, it doesn't do that even if Microsoft claims it does. Bummer! I'll have you know I've been a Microsoft guy for eons... own a Surface and Yoga 2 Pro and LOVE THEM. I also have an android phone, a Samsung Gear 2, Mio Alpha, Basis watch and an Apple Ipod (do they make those anymore?). I buy products based on design, functionality, reliability and value. I could care less who the manufacturer is.

    I'm here to inform others (and hope for solutions that Microsoft will provide in the near future) that the device does NOT offer CONTINUOUS and 24 HOUR heart rate monitoring as Microsoft claims it does. I will post information from future reviews that will also agree with me... I'm not expecting a Microsoft-centric forum to agree with me... but a lot of people that visit this forum are not regulars. They may be visiting this forum for the first time looking for feedback/help/etc with their Band. Most people won't even register... they will just read the posts. I am happy to share this information with others so people can make INFORMED decisions from HONEST, UNBIASED users. Information and opinions from fanboys is quite frankly, useless. Again, not here to **** on this forum. I'm actually actively engaged in all other threads;; I'm reading all of them. A lot of good feedback and information. Good and bad.

    If you don't like what I have to type, you can just ignore this thread. Freedom of speech is something you should learn to embrace.
    Fanboyism? It's called ******* logic man. Get over yourself. This thread is getting locked pretty soon, so no one will be able to do anything in this thread anymore, including you.
    10-31-2014 05:19 PM
  15. Stephen Vogel's Avatar
    I haven't read every last comment on this but I would have thought that in the context of this device "continuous" would mean that it takes readings at various intervals throughout the day without the need for manual intervention from the user. Not that it will monitor your heart rate every minute of every day. This is a consumer oriented device. If you want or need real time monitoring for serious health issues or high level athletic performance management I doubt very much that you would be considering one of these band type devices from MS or anyone else. There are other more focused products available for this.
    10-31-2014 05:27 PM
  16. pj737's Avatar
    Fanboyism? It's called ******* logic man. Get over yourself. This thread is getting locked pretty soon, so no one will be able to do anything in this thread anymore, including you.
    Why would it be locked? Does this forum allow hot-tempered posters to ruin it for the rest of us? I never told anyone to "shut up". That's just rude and obnoxious. If anything the moderators should just delete your posts. I think this is an informational thread to at least some people.

    Further, my arguments have been 100% factual. You make opinion-based statements like "It's clear Microsoft made the device smart enough to know when its valuable to track data and when its a waste of resources".

    Please try to control your temper and allow people to speak their honest opinion without being so rude and obnoxious. Thank you.
    10-31-2014 05:31 PM
  17. Yonic Boom's Avatar
    I am personally not a fanboy, if I was I wouldn't have an iPhone.

    It seems like a sensible use of resources to me to turn up the sampling rate when there's value in higher resolution and to turn it down when there isn't.

    Variability in resting heart rate is relatively minimal, unless you're getting up and moving there's no reason to be firing that sensor off multiple times a second to continue getting redundant data points. Clearly the resolution tunes up higher when its needed during exercise or when any change is detected through the accelerometer.

    That is good engineering. If you are not happy with that decision you should return the device, because all the bellyaching in the world is not going to make them reverse course on it. Even if they had better batteries available to them there's still no value in firing that sensor more often during rest periods, they'd still use that same system to just extend the life of the device further rather than to needlessly increase resolution in scenarios without any real advantage.
    10-31-2014 05:32 PM
  18. pj737's Avatar
    I am personally not a fanboy, if I was I wouldn't have an iPhone.

    It seems like a sensible use of resources to me to turn up the sampling rate when there's value in higher resolution and to turn it down when there isn't.

    Variability in resting heart rate is relatively minimal, unless you're getting up and moving there's no reason to be firing that sensor off multiple times a second to continue getting redundant data points. Clearly the resolution tunes up higher when its needed during exercise or when any change is detected through the accelerometer.

    That is good engineering. If you are not happy with that decision you should return the device, because all the bellyaching in the world is not going to make them reverse course on it. Even if they had better batteries available to them there's still no value in firing that sensor more often during rest periods, they'd still use that same system to just extend the life of the device further rather than to needlessly increase resolution in scenarios without any real advantage.
    You should read every post I made instead of going off the conclusions by some of the posters here. I AGREE that the HRM does not need to be taking measurements every second of every day. I stated that most people are only active (i.e. not in a physical resting state) maybe 4-5 hours a day max. That's when the HRM should be operating. But on the Band, the HRM does not activate regardless of your activity level and input from the gyroscope or accelerometer or temp sensor. If it did I would be VERY HAPPY.

    All the hate on this forum and not one person can tell me how often through an active day the unit is measuring your heart rate. For me, I am yet to see the LED optical sensor activate EVEN ONCE without me manually pressing the big button or starting an exercise session.

    Can anyone out there get the optical sensor to activate without pressing the big button or starting a session? Anyone???
    10-31-2014 05:38 PM
  19. pj737's Avatar
    Sounds like you have a defective device; hopefully a replacement will work correctly. Keep us posted. Cheers.
    Does your optical heart rate sensor activate (during the day while active) without the need to do it manually?
    10-31-2014 05:39 PM
  20. Yonic Boom's Avatar
    I'm trying to read your posts but it's difficult to get past the histrionics.
    10-31-2014 05:39 PM
  21. pj737's Avatar
    I'm trying to read your posts but it's difficult to get past the histrionics.
    LOL. Yes my initial reaction was a bit emotional because I was realllly looking forward to having continuous HR monitoring. This is coming from a guy that's owned every HR device you can buy over the last 20 years. So yes, not the norm. Also felt duped by Microsoft regarding their marketing.

    In any case, I'm really just looking for solutions. I can't get my HRM to activate without doing it manually during the day. I originally came here asking around to see if I was just doing it wrong. Instead the response has been "well, if you don't like it just return it and stop whining". I don't give up that easily.
    10-31-2014 05:52 PM
  22. MikeSo's Avatar
    I'm here to inform others (and hope for solutions that Microsoft will provide in the near future) that the device does NOT offer CONTINUOUS and 24 HOUR heart rate monitoring as Microsoft claims it does.
    Nowhere on Microsoft Band website could I find the "continuous" statement. It says only 24 hour monitoring, which I agree is a bit misleading. I guess they just mean that it is automatic, you don't have to turn it on and off.
    10-31-2014 06:07 PM
  23. garyhartaz's Avatar
    I'm here to inform others (and hope for solutions that Microsoft will provide in the near future) that the device does NOT offer CONTINUOUS and 24 HOUR heart rate monitoring as Microsoft claims it does.
    Can you please share the link or the materials were Microsoft specifically says the word "CONTINUOUS" with regards to the 24 hour heart rate monitoring. I am unable to find any wording like this.

    The Band page on the Microsoft site says:

    24-hour heart rate tracking

    Monitor your heart rate 24 hours a day so you can perform at your best.


    And their fine print even says: "Microsoft Band estimates your steps, heart rate, and other data."
    Thanks
    10-31-2014 06:18 PM
  24. greyskytheory's Avatar
    I think you can quickly check your heart rate . Press a button and it will calculate your hr over a brief period(maybe 30-60 seconds). This was mentioned somewhere. Someone please confirm?

    You're 100% correct. There's no need to know your hr for every single second of every single day. I can't imagine what I would need that information for.
    10-31-2014 06:18 PM
  25. pj737's Avatar
    Can you please share the link or the materials were Microsoft specifically says the word "CONTINUOUS" with regards to the 24 hour heart rate monitoring. I am unable to find any wording like this.

    The Band page on the Microsoft site says:

    24-hour heart rate tracking

    Monitor your heart rate 24 hours a day so you can perform at your best.


    And their fine print even says: "Microsoft Band estimates your steps, heart rate, and other data."
    Thanks
    band-microsoft-3.jpg

    band-microsoft-2.jpg

    band-microsoft.jpg

    I can't wait to hear the response after this. And no, the sites are not doctored. Those are screenshots. You can visit those sites now and see for yourself. First inflammatory insults toward me in 3... 2...
    10-31-2014 06:48 PM
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