03-18-2008 07:36 PM
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  1. AndrewAz's Avatar
    I just have 1 question for people with BT issues.. Does this happen in a specific place? For example does it happen more at home or in the car? After playing with BT on several phones/computer I found that Wi-Fi routers kill BT devices since essentially BT is short range Wi-Fi that rapidly jumps around in that frequency. I notice when I have BT on my treo and am using it around my laptop the Wi-Fi signal drops and I get some static on the headset. I know a lot of citys now have city wide wi-fi which in my city pisses me off since it clogs the 802.11 2.4ghz spectrum, in my house alone I can pick up about 5 of the public wi-fi stations.
    07-03-2007 04:00 AM
  2. TreoNewt's Avatar
    Not enough playtime with BT/Wi-Fi on this phone to make a definitive stament regarding interference.

    I have used Wi-Fi while on a phone call using the BT with no apparent BT problems... the Wi-Fi speed with BT-On is lower and battery life shorter of course.
    07-03-2007 08:10 AM
  3. ls3mach's Avatar
    Not enough playtime with BT/Wi-Fi on this phone to make a definitive stament regarding interference.

    I have used Wi-Fi while on a phone call using the BT with no apparent BT problems... the Wi-Fi speed with BT-On is lower and battery life shorter of course.
    I was under the impression that the two shared an antennea and you couldn't effectively use them both at the same time.
    07-03-2007 11:21 AM
  4. aznmode's Avatar
    How do you like the quality of the pictures? I think its really crappy. Even though I rarely used the 700p camera, I was hoping to use this one a lot. What are your settings and can you post some samples of pics you've taken with he Mogul?
    07-03-2007 12:23 PM
  5. AndrewAz's Avatar
    Not enough playtime with BT/Wi-Fi on this phone to make a definitive stament regarding interference.

    I have used Wi-Fi while on a phone call using the BT with no apparent BT problems... the Wi-Fi speed with BT-On is lower and battery life shorter of course.
    I am speaking about outside sources of Wi-Fi such as your router or if you have a public city Wi-Fi like I have in my city which until I changed my router channel on my personal router it interfered and decreased the range of it.
    07-03-2007 02:36 PM
  6. nsxprime's Avatar
    I was under the impression that the two shared an antennea and you couldn't effectively use them both at the same time.
    You can use both of them at the same time.
    07-03-2007 09:10 PM
  7. AndrewAz's Avatar
    Just got my 6800 today. Its been tough since I am a mac user and missing sync is only in beta for WM6. So far I dont like the fact like on windows when you hit the X button applications still run in the background.

    Having Wi-Fi is great

    I have the threaded text app installed and it works just like on the treo, but I do miss the one handed usability on the treo.

    The phone itself is lighter than the 755p and length wise a little shorter but its a little thicker but not much.

    In terms of speed I would say the 755p gets beat by the 6800, i read about lag when changing from normal to horizontal view but at most it takes 1 second, and opening the phone application is instant.
    07-03-2007 09:50 PM
  8. Tempest790's Avatar
    Make sure you install HTC X-Button. It will close apps completely for you. It's a free download, and I use it on my Mogul. You can set it to tap and close or tap and hold to close. Either way will shut down the program completely.

    My bluetooth headset works pretty well, but I do get low volume drops occasionally. It doesn't startup automatically as much as the 700wx does though. I find I have to tap the headset to link the call if I answer it from the phone.

    I did take some pictures with the Mogul, and it does a fairly good job. It overexposed in low light, and has to held almost perfectly still, but does a decent job if you need to take a quick snapshot. I like that you turn the phone sideways and use the display like a large camera viewer. Plus it has a flash which helps a little in dark photos.
    07-03-2007 10:56 PM
  9. aznmode's Avatar
    Any of you guys having issue with the headset adapter? When I plug my headset in all the way it only plays on the right side. I have to pull it out a bit to get the left side to work but any small movement brings it back to the right.
    07-04-2007 05:29 AM
  10. mikec#IM's Avatar
    All this chatter about BT...It's such a hackey thing. Works okay sometimes, othertimes not.

    I wish either vendors would get the sw and hw correct, or just give us a bettter protocol.

    BT has been around for years, but is nowhere near as stable and reliable as it should be for a PAN.
    07-04-2007 08:42 AM
  11. kaoswlf's Avatar
    Any of you guys having issue with the headset adapter? When I plug my headset in all the way it only plays on the right side. I have to pull it out a bit to get the left side to work but any small movement brings it back to the right.

    That sounds like a defect... You might have to exchange it for another.
    07-04-2007 12:56 PM
  12. coolbreeze78's Avatar
    BT is terrible. RAM is pathetic. Screen is pretty. Overall a sluggish device.

    I returned it after 18 days. Have an iPhone now. Very happy. Not trolling, just stating my Mogul experience. WM6 seems to be a skin, not the OS overhaul we wanted. Issues still very apparent.
    07-04-2007 07:58 PM
  13. Tempest790's Avatar
    WM6 is a minor upgrade to WM5. WM7 is slated to be a major upgrade to the Windows Mobile OS. My thought is that they will try to link it into Vista more, so it will be overhauled substantially. We'll have to wait and see if they deliver the goods though.
    07-06-2007 04:05 AM
  14. oalvarez's Avatar
    BT is terrible. RAM is pathetic. Screen is pretty. Overall a sluggish device.

    I returned it after 18 days. Have an iPhone now. Very happy. Not trolling, just stating my Mogul experience. WM6 seems to be a skin, not the OS overhaul we wanted. Issues still very apparent.
    it's odd that a user would have to download an app to actually close programs, especially with the new version of WM. what were the developers thinking? was there enough RAM to keep the device functioning properly in the event that you didn't have this kind of 3rd party app on the device? or is that what you are referring to when you say the ram was "pathetic?"

    what did you think about the slideout keyboard? ok experience? how about battery life?

    thanks in advance
    07-06-2007 06:56 AM
  15. surur's Avatar
    it's odd that a user would have to download an app to actually close programs, especially with the new version of WM. what were the developers thinking? was there enough RAM to keep the device functioning properly in the event that you didn't have this kind of 3rd party app on the device? or is that what you are referring to when you say the ram was "pathetic?"
    This is the same strategy the Iphone uses, and we know people experience memory problems on that device too.

    I actually think people should just stop worrying about background apps and let the OS do its job as best it can to manage memory. Most times it will be fine. Of course if you do not chose this route there are apps available to help, but the best solution is more real RAM, as found on high-end devices.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 08:20 AM
  16. stroths's Avatar
    As surur mentioned, this is by design. The OS should close down apps as it needs memory, but some users prefer to bypass this feature and close the apps manually. To each their own.
    07-06-2007 08:27 AM
  17. Wozzer's Avatar
    I was really close to calling sprint to exchange my new 700wx for a 6800...then reading the mogul cons I remembered precisely why I switched away from the 6700, YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO BACK YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, if you like 1-handed operation and/or fast operation (external keyboard shortcuts), you'll hate the mogul after 2-3 months...
    07-06-2007 08:38 AM
  18. Scott R's Avatar
    I posted this in another thread, but I should have probably posted it here, so here goes...

    *************

    I got my Sprint Mogul/6800 delivered yesterday. Ugh. It's been a while since I've had a WM device. My last one was the PPC-6700 (the Mogul's predecessor), which I returned within the 2-week trial period. I disliked that for many reasons, a couple of which were fixed with the Mogul, but for some reason this feels worse to me. It just feels so cumbersome to have to navigate through menus, push several different hard buttons to do common things, etc. I actually bought it with the idea that I'd use my .NET skills and passion for usability to create some neat applications and maybe make some money, but my first day has been such a let-down that I'm not sure I can stand to keep it. :(

    ***************

    Anyways, that was earlier yesterday. Late last night, I installed the HTC Touch home app (whatever they call that) which has the weather, a huge clock, and some big finger-friendly icons for launching apps. I also started to train myself to tap on the tiny buttons and menu options with my finger. The HTC Touch app has a lot about it that I dislike, but it represents the category of applications I had imagined developing (finger-friendly apps). I had also thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app (along the lines of what I developed for the Palm OS), but I'm not sure how usable it could be with such a tiny screen.

    Overall, I found the device to be reasonably snappy with the screen orientation switching being fast enough for me (I was bugged by this with the 6700). I did get the device to slow to a crawl at one point when I tried to download a desktop-optimized web page. It didn't seem to finish and I couldn't stop it. When I switched out of IE, the screen never fully refreshed, and the top start bar was gone (still showing a remnant of the web page). Sloppy. I eventually navigated over to the task switcher, killed everything, and everything was running smooth again.

    Aside from the still-too-stylus-focused UI, the WiFi setup drove me crazy. There are two or three (possibly more) configuration screens related to networking and/or WiFi and I was never sure which one I needed to use. And when I went through the process of trying to establish a connection to my network, there were too many options and checkboxes I had to deal with (do I have WEP or WPA or...). On my brother's iPhone, it seems like I plug in the name of the SSID (if it isn't broadcast) and I type in the key and I'm done. Why can't the WM WiFi setup require less knowledge by the user and just take a best guess (and if it doesn't work, try other key/security methods)?

    FWIW, as far as the closing apps thing is concerned...I personally would like to see the OK/Close soft button and hard button removed altogether. I ranted about this a long time ago. I think apps should have a decent-sized on-screen OK button (often placed next to a "Cancel" button). And I think that users should open the home launcher or directly start the app they want (via a dedicated hard button), not minimize/close the app they're currently in first. That's an extra step. I think I should have quick access to a recently used (and currently running) app list via a press-and-hold on the Start button. That would let me quickly switch to an app I've recently used or close a memory hog as needed. On that note, the Start menu and associated button should be removed and that button should bring you to a "Home" screen (along the lines of the Today screen) which has some Today-like info, and icons for accessing programs and Settings/Prefs.
    07-06-2007 09:05 AM
  19. stroths's Avatar
    Alas you have uncovered my secret plot to convert you to the 6800. I will have to give up now that you have discovered it.

    While the 6800 doesn't have the 1-handedness that the 700wx does, it is fast and with different apps/tweaks, I've got it's one-handedness working pretty well.
    07-06-2007 09:08 AM
  20. surur's Avatar
    I just wanted to address your UI issues, not because I want to disagree, but just to make sure you know what WM has built-in.

    FWIW, as far as the closing apps thing is concerned...I personally would like to see the OK/Close soft button and hard button removed altogether. I ranted about this a long time ago. I think apps should have a decent-sized on-screen OK button (often placed next to a "Cancel" button). And I think that users should open the home launcher or directly start the app they want (via a dedicated hard button), not minimize/close the app they're currently in first. That's an extra step.
    Have you ever used WM smartphone? It has exactly that. There is no OK button, just a back button and a home button. The back button backs up a step, and home takes you to the Today screen. WM smartphones seems a smoother experience than PPC phone edition.

    I think I should have quick access to a recently used (and currently running) app list via a press-and-hold on the Start button. That would let me quickly switch to an app I've recently used or close a memory hog as needed. On that note, the Start menu and associated button should be removed and that button should bring you to a "Home" screen (along the lines of the Today screen) which has some Today-like info, and icons for accessing programs and Settings/Prefs.
    I myself personally wonder why people do not use the start menu for exactly that. From the start menu 13 apps can be started. It does have a stylus-centric design, with dense lists and small icons, but all the MRU apps are there, and you can personalize the list to include your most common apps.

    Either way, I think you should have a look at WM Smartphone edition, and you may find most of your gripes has been addressed on that device already.

    Surur
    07-06-2007 10:00 AM
  21. Scott R's Avatar
    Surur, I've got a decent amount of WM experience, having owned an iPaq 3630 (one of the original Pocket PC's for anyone here who may not be familiar with it) and the HP iPaq 4155 (which I still have in a box and need to get around to eBaying one of these days). I tried out the PPC-6700 for two weeks when it first came out. I also played with a Motorola Q in a store when it first came out and am familiar with what made the Smartphone edition different. I do think MS was on the right track with the Smartphone idea (better one-handed navigation, dedicated Home button, back button, etc.), but I really like having a touchscreen since it allows for more possibilities and makes using certain apps a lot easier (e.g., think Bubblets).

    FWIW, I think that the dedicated Back button is too simple. I don't want to simply go back to my last-used app, I want to have a list of the last 4-5 apps I've used. I use Hi-Launcher on my Palm OS Treo 700p to accomplish that. The WM running programs list can do that, but it's buried within Settings and the layout of the app doesn't make it as quick to use without a stylus as I'd want it to be. I do realize that there are 3rd party apps that simplify this and if I "stick around" (i.e., keep my 6800), I may develop my own.

    I left out another thing I think that MS screwed up (on both the touchscreen and Smartphone variations of WM): Application-specific menus. Most apps have a lot of functionality that you need to get to via app-specific menus. When MS was doing its fairly significant overhaul of WM with WM5, they came up with the idea of the two soft menu options, and made hardware manufacturers add dedicated hard buttons for "OK" and "Start". IMO, they should have instead dropped the "OK" altogether and changed their UI guidelines to instruct developers to put an OK button on the app screen (when needed). As I already mentioned (and you seemed to agree with), apps would not have a close/minimize button either, leaving users to close them via an app-switcher only when necessary. But MS *should* have added a dedicated hard button for "Menu" to allow users to pop up an app-specific menu. Because MS didn't think to do this, but developers needed it, what we're left with is a situation where many, many applications are dedicating one of the two precious soft button spots to "Menu".
    07-07-2007 06:46 AM
  22. nsxprime's Avatar
    I'm currently evaluating both of them and so far the 755p is winning. I'm on week #2 now. The biggest differences that I've found are these:

    755p
    call recording software (nothing can ever work on WM phones because of the design)
    volumecare (volume on the 6800 is craptastic)
    one-handed use (no matter how many hacks you add to the 6800, it will never touch a Palm)
    outdoor viewing (much better on the 755p than the 6800. indoors is comparable)
    better BT (believe it. The 6800's BT is very buggy and sounds bad on the other end)
    better battery life
    much better video playback (the 6800 is really bad at video decoding)
    free tethering

    6800
    larger screen (better for watching DVDs)
    voice command
    multi-tasking (too bad the RAM is so small on the 6800 that you can't afford to have more than one app open at a time)
    larger keyboard
    built-in A2DP (works well with CorePlayer 1.11)
    WiFi (can use Skype when overseas - though only over speakerphone)
    better compatibility with Office files (DTG10 isn't nearly as good)
    cool factor (it's cooler looking at I like being able to do more extensive hacking/ROM editing)

    Reception is similar between the two but the 755p has a bit better BT range.
    07-09-2007 12:41 AM
  23. Scott R's Avatar
    nsxprime, good comments.

    I've installed a couple of "iPhone copycat" apps. I'm not interested in copying the iPhone for the sake of copying the iPhone, but I'm a believer in finger-friendly apps and the iPhone seems to be giving the "I don't want to get my fingerprints on the screen" mindset a justified smack in the head.

    Two thoughts on these types of apps:
    1) It's impressive how quickly the WM hobbyist developer community has risen to the challenge and whipped some of these out.
    2) None of them are as polished as the iPhone versions.

    It could be argued that the iPhone could benefit from more hard buttons, but I think that the Mogul's got too many. They're all over the place, often placed too close to nearby buttons.

    The Mogul's screen is a bit too small for finger-friendly action and is too low-res for 2007. Resolution is mostly a problem when doing web browsing. For those times I need to access a non-mobile-optimized site, the screen resolution combined with IE's often not so great on-the-fly optimization leaves me wanting.

    The Mogul's keyboard sucks. The idea of a bigger keyboard sounds great on paper to me (I've always complained that the Treo's keyboard was too small), but HTC managed to deliver a keyboard that, while wider, is absolutely horrid. The flat keys with no spacing is one problem. The other problem is the fact that there are keys dedicated to things I could care less about or are redundant (i.e., directional keys) and keys that I wish were there but are not.

    I've thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app, but the small screen size could make it more error-prone than I'd like, and it would seem a waste to never use the hard keyboard (and pay the price for it with the added thickness). Last time I checked, though, no one was making a Sprint, 3.5"+ screen w/no hard keyboard WM device. Hopefully the iPhone's arrival will result in some new form-factors and a return to larger screen (and higher res) WM devices.

    Nevertheless, the "iPhone copycat" apps I've installed have given me some hope that I might be able to create some apps that would improve the usability for me and others who share my vision (and maybe make some money from it). I've got a little over a week left to decide.
    07-09-2007 09:21 PM
  24. nsxprime's Avatar
    Sprint has confirmed the 6800's BT problem but doesn't know when an MR will be released.

    I agree that HTC should have used the same keyboard as some of their other phones with smaller keys and spaces in between them.
    07-10-2007 02:25 PM
  25. Godstyle#WP's Avatar
    Scott R.

    Maybe you want to look into the HTC Vogue that's rumored to be coming out Q4 for Sprint. Though there is no 3.5" screen, just 2.8".
    07-10-2007 05:08 PM
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