stroths
New member
As surur mentioned, this is by design. The OS should close down apps as it needs memory, but some users prefer to bypass this feature and close the apps manually. To each their own.
HTC Mogul owners: How do you like it?
- Thread starter Scott R
- Start date
I was really close to calling sprint to exchange my new 700wx for a 6800...then reading the mogul cons I remembered precisely why I switched away from the 6700, YOU CAN'T MAKE ME GO BACK YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!! Trust me, if you like 1-handed operation and/or fast operation (external keyboard shortcuts), you'll hate the mogul after 2-3 months...
I posted this in another thread, but I should have probably posted it here, so here goes...
*************
I got my Sprint Mogul/6800 delivered yesterday. Ugh. It's been a while since I've had a WM device. My last one was the PPC-6700 (the Mogul's predecessor), which I returned within the 2-week trial period. I disliked that for many reasons, a couple of which were fixed with the Mogul, but for some reason this feels worse to me. It just feels so cumbersome to have to navigate through menus, push several different hard buttons to do common things, etc. I actually bought it with the idea that I'd use my .NET skills and passion for usability to create some neat applications and maybe make some money, but my first day has been such a let-down that I'm not sure I can stand to keep it.
***************
Anyways, that was earlier yesterday. Late last night, I installed the HTC Touch home app (whatever they call that) which has the weather, a huge clock, and some big finger-friendly icons for launching apps. I also started to train myself to tap on the tiny buttons and menu options with my finger. The HTC Touch app has a lot about it that I dislike, but it represents the category of applications I had imagined developing (finger-friendly apps). I had also thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app (along the lines of what I developed for the Palm OS), but I'm not sure how usable it could be with such a tiny screen.
Overall, I found the device to be reasonably snappy with the screen orientation switching being fast enough for me (I was bugged by this with the 6700). I did get the device to slow to a crawl at one point when I tried to download a desktop-optimized web page. It didn't seem to finish and I couldn't stop it. When I switched out of IE, the screen never fully refreshed, and the top start bar was gone (still showing a remnant of the web page). Sloppy. I eventually navigated over to the task switcher, killed everything, and everything was running smooth again.
Aside from the still-too-stylus-focused UI, the WiFi setup drove me crazy. There are two or three (possibly more) configuration screens related to networking and/or WiFi and I was never sure which one I needed to use. And when I went through the process of trying to establish a connection to my network, there were too many options and checkboxes I had to deal with (do I have WEP or WPA or...). On my brother's iPhone, it seems like I plug in the name of the SSID (if it isn't broadcast) and I type in the key and I'm done. Why can't the WM WiFi setup require less knowledge by the user and just take a best guess (and if it doesn't work, try other key/security methods)?
FWIW, as far as the closing apps thing is concerned...I personally would like to see the OK/Close soft button and hard button removed altogether. I ranted about this a long time ago. I think apps should have a decent-sized on-screen OK button (often placed next to a "Cancel" button). And I think that users should open the home launcher or directly start the app they want (via a dedicated hard button), not minimize/close the app they're currently in first. That's an extra step. I think I should have quick access to a recently used (and currently running) app list via a press-and-hold on the Start button. That would let me quickly switch to an app I've recently used or close a memory hog as needed. On that note, the Start menu and associated button should be removed and that button should bring you to a "Home" screen (along the lines of the Today screen) which has some Today-like info, and icons for accessing programs and Settings/Prefs.
*************
I got my Sprint Mogul/6800 delivered yesterday. Ugh. It's been a while since I've had a WM device. My last one was the PPC-6700 (the Mogul's predecessor), which I returned within the 2-week trial period. I disliked that for many reasons, a couple of which were fixed with the Mogul, but for some reason this feels worse to me. It just feels so cumbersome to have to navigate through menus, push several different hard buttons to do common things, etc. I actually bought it with the idea that I'd use my .NET skills and passion for usability to create some neat applications and maybe make some money, but my first day has been such a let-down that I'm not sure I can stand to keep it.
***************
Anyways, that was earlier yesterday. Late last night, I installed the HTC Touch home app (whatever they call that) which has the weather, a huge clock, and some big finger-friendly icons for launching apps. I also started to train myself to tap on the tiny buttons and menu options with my finger. The HTC Touch app has a lot about it that I dislike, but it represents the category of applications I had imagined developing (finger-friendly apps). I had also thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app (along the lines of what I developed for the Palm OS), but I'm not sure how usable it could be with such a tiny screen.
Overall, I found the device to be reasonably snappy with the screen orientation switching being fast enough for me (I was bugged by this with the 6700). I did get the device to slow to a crawl at one point when I tried to download a desktop-optimized web page. It didn't seem to finish and I couldn't stop it. When I switched out of IE, the screen never fully refreshed, and the top start bar was gone (still showing a remnant of the web page). Sloppy. I eventually navigated over to the task switcher, killed everything, and everything was running smooth again.
Aside from the still-too-stylus-focused UI, the WiFi setup drove me crazy. There are two or three (possibly more) configuration screens related to networking and/or WiFi and I was never sure which one I needed to use. And when I went through the process of trying to establish a connection to my network, there were too many options and checkboxes I had to deal with (do I have WEP or WPA or...). On my brother's iPhone, it seems like I plug in the name of the SSID (if it isn't broadcast) and I type in the key and I'm done. Why can't the WM WiFi setup require less knowledge by the user and just take a best guess (and if it doesn't work, try other key/security methods)?
FWIW, as far as the closing apps thing is concerned...I personally would like to see the OK/Close soft button and hard button removed altogether. I ranted about this a long time ago. I think apps should have a decent-sized on-screen OK button (often placed next to a "Cancel" button). And I think that users should open the home launcher or directly start the app they want (via a dedicated hard button), not minimize/close the app they're currently in first. That's an extra step. I think I should have quick access to a recently used (and currently running) app list via a press-and-hold on the Start button. That would let me quickly switch to an app I've recently used or close a memory hog as needed. On that note, the Start menu and associated button should be removed and that button should bring you to a "Home" screen (along the lines of the Today screen) which has some Today-like info, and icons for accessing programs and Settings/Prefs.
stroths
New member
Alas you have uncovered my secret plot to convert you to the 6800. I will have to give up now that you have discovered it.
While the 6800 doesn't have the 1-handedness that the 700wx does, it is fast and with different apps/tweaks, I've got it's one-handedness working pretty well.
While the 6800 doesn't have the 1-handedness that the 700wx does, it is fast and with different apps/tweaks, I've got it's one-handedness working pretty well.
surur
New member
I just wanted to address your UI issues, not because I want to disagree, but just to make sure you know what WM has built-in.
Have you ever used WM smartphone? It has exactly that. There is no OK button, just a back button and a home button. The back button backs up a step, and home takes you to the Today screen. WM smartphones seems a smoother experience than PPC phone edition.
I myself personally wonder why people do not use the start menu for exactly that. From the start menu 13 apps can be started. It does have a stylus-centric design, with dense lists and small icons, but all the MRU apps are there, and you can personalize the list to include your most common apps.
Either way, I think you should have a look at WM Smartphone edition, and you may find most of your gripes has been addressed on that device already.
Surur
Have you ever used WM smartphone? It has exactly that. There is no OK button, just a back button and a home button. The back button backs up a step, and home takes you to the Today screen. WM smartphones seems a smoother experience than PPC phone edition.
I myself personally wonder why people do not use the start menu for exactly that. From the start menu 13 apps can be started. It does have a stylus-centric design, with dense lists and small icons, but all the MRU apps are there, and you can personalize the list to include your most common apps.
Either way, I think you should have a look at WM Smartphone edition, and you may find most of your gripes has been addressed on that device already.
Surur
Surur, I've got a decent amount of WM experience, having owned an iPaq 3630 (one of the original Pocket PC's for anyone here who may not be familiar with it) and the HP iPaq 4155 (which I still have in a box and need to get around to eBaying one of these days). I tried out the PPC-6700 for two weeks when it first came out. I also played with a Motorola Q in a store when it first came out and am familiar with what made the Smartphone edition different. I do think MS was on the right track with the Smartphone idea (better one-handed navigation, dedicated Home button, back button, etc.), but I really like having a touchscreen since it allows for more possibilities and makes using certain apps a lot easier (e.g., think Bubblets).
FWIW, I think that the dedicated Back button is too simple. I don't want to simply go back to my last-used app, I want to have a list of the last 4-5 apps I've used. I use Hi-Launcher on my Palm OS Treo 700p to accomplish that. The WM running programs list can do that, but it's buried within Settings and the layout of the app doesn't make it as quick to use without a stylus as I'd want it to be. I do realize that there are 3rd party apps that simplify this and if I "stick around" (i.e., keep my 6800), I may develop my own.
I left out another thing I think that MS screwed up (on both the touchscreen and Smartphone variations of WM): Application-specific menus. Most apps have a lot of functionality that you need to get to via app-specific menus. When MS was doing its fairly significant overhaul of WM with WM5, they came up with the idea of the two soft menu options, and made hardware manufacturers add dedicated hard buttons for "OK" and "Start". IMO, they should have instead dropped the "OK" altogether and changed their UI guidelines to instruct developers to put an OK button on the app screen (when needed). As I already mentioned (and you seemed to agree with), apps would not have a close/minimize button either, leaving users to close them via an app-switcher only when necessary. But MS *should* have added a dedicated hard button for "Menu" to allow users to pop up an app-specific menu. Because MS didn't think to do this, but developers needed it, what we're left with is a situation where many, many applications are dedicating one of the two precious soft button spots to "Menu".
FWIW, I think that the dedicated Back button is too simple. I don't want to simply go back to my last-used app, I want to have a list of the last 4-5 apps I've used. I use Hi-Launcher on my Palm OS Treo 700p to accomplish that. The WM running programs list can do that, but it's buried within Settings and the layout of the app doesn't make it as quick to use without a stylus as I'd want it to be. I do realize that there are 3rd party apps that simplify this and if I "stick around" (i.e., keep my 6800), I may develop my own.
I left out another thing I think that MS screwed up (on both the touchscreen and Smartphone variations of WM): Application-specific menus. Most apps have a lot of functionality that you need to get to via app-specific menus. When MS was doing its fairly significant overhaul of WM with WM5, they came up with the idea of the two soft menu options, and made hardware manufacturers add dedicated hard buttons for "OK" and "Start". IMO, they should have instead dropped the "OK" altogether and changed their UI guidelines to instruct developers to put an OK button on the app screen (when needed). As I already mentioned (and you seemed to agree with), apps would not have a close/minimize button either, leaving users to close them via an app-switcher only when necessary. But MS *should* have added a dedicated hard button for "Menu" to allow users to pop up an app-specific menu. Because MS didn't think to do this, but developers needed it, what we're left with is a situation where many, many applications are dedicating one of the two precious soft button spots to "Menu".
I'm currently evaluating both of them and so far the 755p is winning. I'm on week #2 now. The biggest differences that I've found are these:
755p
call recording software (nothing can ever work on WM phones because of the design)
volumecare (volume on the 6800 is craptastic)
one-handed use (no matter how many hacks you add to the 6800, it will never touch a Palm)
outdoor viewing (much better on the 755p than the 6800. indoors is comparable)
better BT (believe it. The 6800's BT is very buggy and sounds bad on the other end)
better battery life
much better video playback (the 6800 is really bad at video decoding)
free tethering
6800
larger screen (better for watching DVDs)
voice command
multi-tasking (too bad the RAM is so small on the 6800 that you can't afford to have more than one app open at a time)
larger keyboard
built-in A2DP (works well with CorePlayer 1.11)
WiFi (can use Skype when overseas - though only over speakerphone)
better compatibility with Office files (DTG10 isn't nearly as good)
cool factor (it's cooler looking at I like being able to do more extensive hacking/ROM editing)
Reception is similar between the two but the 755p has a bit better BT range.
755p
call recording software (nothing can ever work on WM phones because of the design)
volumecare (volume on the 6800 is craptastic)
one-handed use (no matter how many hacks you add to the 6800, it will never touch a Palm)
outdoor viewing (much better on the 755p than the 6800. indoors is comparable)
better BT (believe it. The 6800's BT is very buggy and sounds bad on the other end)
better battery life
much better video playback (the 6800 is really bad at video decoding)
free tethering
6800
larger screen (better for watching DVDs)
voice command
multi-tasking (too bad the RAM is so small on the 6800 that you can't afford to have more than one app open at a time)
larger keyboard
built-in A2DP (works well with CorePlayer 1.11)
WiFi (can use Skype when overseas - though only over speakerphone)
better compatibility with Office files (DTG10 isn't nearly as good)
cool factor (it's cooler looking at I like being able to do more extensive hacking/ROM editing)
Reception is similar between the two but the 755p has a bit better BT range.
nsxprime, good comments.
I've installed a couple of "iPhone copycat" apps. I'm not interested in copying the iPhone for the sake of copying the iPhone, but I'm a believer in finger-friendly apps and the iPhone seems to be giving the "I don't want to get my fingerprints on the screen" mindset a justified smack in the head.
Two thoughts on these types of apps:
1) It's impressive how quickly the WM hobbyist developer community has risen to the challenge and whipped some of these out.
2) None of them are as polished as the iPhone versions.
It could be argued that the iPhone could benefit from more hard buttons, but I think that the Mogul's got too many. They're all over the place, often placed too close to nearby buttons.
The Mogul's screen is a bit too small for finger-friendly action and is too low-res for 2007. Resolution is mostly a problem when doing web browsing. For those times I need to access a non-mobile-optimized site, the screen resolution combined with IE's often not so great on-the-fly optimization leaves me wanting.
The Mogul's keyboard sucks. The idea of a bigger keyboard sounds great on paper to me (I've always complained that the Treo's keyboard was too small), but HTC managed to deliver a keyboard that, while wider, is absolutely horrid. The flat keys with no spacing is one problem. The other problem is the fact that there are keys dedicated to things I could care less about or are redundant (i.e., directional keys) and keys that I wish were there but are not.
I've thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app, but the small screen size could make it more error-prone than I'd like, and it would seem a waste to never use the hard keyboard (and pay the price for it with the added thickness). Last time I checked, though, no one was making a Sprint, 3.5"+ screen w/no hard keyboard WM device. Hopefully the iPhone's arrival will result in some new form-factors and a return to larger screen (and higher res) WM devices.
Nevertheless, the "iPhone copycat" apps I've installed have given me some hope that I might be able to create some apps that would improve the usability for me and others who share my vision (and maybe make some money from it). I've got a little over a week left to decide.
I've installed a couple of "iPhone copycat" apps. I'm not interested in copying the iPhone for the sake of copying the iPhone, but I'm a believer in finger-friendly apps and the iPhone seems to be giving the "I don't want to get my fingerprints on the screen" mindset a justified smack in the head.
Two thoughts on these types of apps:
1) It's impressive how quickly the WM hobbyist developer community has risen to the challenge and whipped some of these out.
2) None of them are as polished as the iPhone versions.
It could be argued that the iPhone could benefit from more hard buttons, but I think that the Mogul's got too many. They're all over the place, often placed too close to nearby buttons.
The Mogul's screen is a bit too small for finger-friendly action and is too low-res for 2007. Resolution is mostly a problem when doing web browsing. For those times I need to access a non-mobile-optimized site, the screen resolution combined with IE's often not so great on-the-fly optimization leaves me wanting.
The Mogul's keyboard sucks. The idea of a bigger keyboard sounds great on paper to me (I've always complained that the Treo's keyboard was too small), but HTC managed to deliver a keyboard that, while wider, is absolutely horrid. The flat keys with no spacing is one problem. The other problem is the fact that there are keys dedicated to things I could care less about or are redundant (i.e., directional keys) and keys that I wish were there but are not.
I've thought about creating a virtual thumbboard app, but the small screen size could make it more error-prone than I'd like, and it would seem a waste to never use the hard keyboard (and pay the price for it with the added thickness). Last time I checked, though, no one was making a Sprint, 3.5"+ screen w/no hard keyboard WM device. Hopefully the iPhone's arrival will result in some new form-factors and a return to larger screen (and higher res) WM devices.
Nevertheless, the "iPhone copycat" apps I've installed have given me some hope that I might be able to create some apps that would improve the usability for me and others who share my vision (and maybe make some money from it). I've got a little over a week left to decide.
Sprint has confirmed the 6800's BT problem but doesn't know when an MR will be released.
I agree that HTC should have used the same keyboard as some of their other phones with smaller keys and spaces in between them.
I agree that HTC should have used the same keyboard as some of their other phones with smaller keys and spaces in between them.
Godstyle#WP
New member
Scott R.
Maybe you want to look into the HTC Vogue that's rumored to be coming out Q4 for Sprint. Though there is no 3.5" screen, just 2.8".
Maybe you want to look into the HTC Vogue that's rumored to be coming out Q4 for Sprint. Though there is no 3.5" screen, just 2.8".
keyboard annoyance
Does it drive other nuts that the keyboard layout for "alt" keys is ********. The idea that when I alt-lock the backspace and the dot"." are redefined. Just try to quickly use the calculator or enter an IP address.
Does it drive other nuts that the keyboard layout for "alt" keys is ********. The idea that when I alt-lock the backspace and the dot"." are redefined. Just try to quickly use the calculator or enter an IP address.
As I wrote in another thread, I installed "SPB Full Screen Keyboard" on my Mogul and, despite the too-small 2.8" screen, I think I really prefer it over the Mogul's hard keyboard. For those that may not know, I wrote a virtual thumbboard app for the Palm OS (originally optimized around the Tapwave Zodiac's 3.8" 480x320 screen), so the idea of using a virtual thumbboard isn't new (or distasteful) for me. I was worried that the 2.8" screen would be too small. Well, it's certainly not ideal for an app like that (typos will be more frequent), but I was pleasantly surprised by it (certainly compared to using the Mogul's hard keyboard). If I stick around with the Mogul (or return it and wait for the Vogue), my first order of coding business will be to develop a WM virtual thumbboard app (the SPB app is workable, but lacking in several areas).
Does anyone have any updates on the ETA for the Vogue? I don't want to have to wait until Q4, but if I'm not going to use the Mogul's hard keyboard, I'd prefer not to have to "pay" for it with the added thickness. Plus, I'm trying to avoid using a stylus as much as possible, and pressing the hard buttons around the Mogul's D-Pad is a bit difficult due to the fact that there are several of them and they're close together. The Vogue seems to clean that up as well.
Godstyle#WP
New member
If you can improve upon the SPB virtual thumbboard app, I'd certainly look at the Vogue myself. Although I am loathe to move away from my Treo.
I've heard no Sprint for the Vogue :thumbsdn:. That could change obviously.
Any reason not to go for the 800w on Sprint? 320x320 resolution should be quite spectacular...
TreoNewt
New member
I have searched but can not find the photo dial touch screen plug-in you seem to be using, can you point me in the right direction?
aznmode
New member
I don't recommend that plug in actually. If you tap to call one of the picture contact, it doesnt change to phone mode. You will still be at the Today screen. The only indication you're connected is on the bottom left of the screen, it would say "call status". If you press the left soft key then you will get the phone screen. I have accidentally called people not knowing I was calling them. You're better off using Contact-ing Pro. It will put the same picture icon on the Today screen but will change screen once you initiate the call. You will have to fork up $15 however but it will work better for you.
aznmode
New member
Also with Contact-ing you can have separate tabs above the photo contacts if you categorize your contacts. ie. Personal, Business, etc. You can create new category also in your Contacts and that will show up as well.
TreoNewt
New member
I found and downloaded the trial version of this application but was not able to make it work - installed three times with no luck.
The application appears on the launch menu and when I open it, I am able to select my picture contacts (only five though - is this a limit on the "real" program as well?) just fine. My problem is there is no plug-in to select or activate in the Today applet. The program offers a menu that has an option to update the plug-in but can not make it show on the Today screen...am I missing something?
BTW, thanks for your reply.
The application appears on the launch menu and when I open it, I am able to select my picture contacts (only five though - is this a limit on the "real" program as well?) just fine. My problem is there is no plug-in to select or activate in the Today applet. The program offers a menu that has an option to update the plug-in but can not make it show on the Today screen...am I missing something?
BTW, thanks for your reply.
TreoNewt
New member
Disregard the previous, seems I actaully downloaded some other stuff and not the one you are referring to. I will try Contact-ing today. Thanks.
bubbatex
New member
I am thinking about a Mogul - I have about 7-8 numbers that I call alot, otherwise, I don't mind looking up someone in contacts with two hands. Does this Contact-ing program allow you to set up multiple contacts to choose with one touch or one D-pad push? If so, how many can you set up?
Trending Posts
-
AVerMedia Elite Go GC313Pro review: This little charging brick is a must-have for streamers on the go- Started by Windows Central
- Replies: 0
-
Comprehensive Guide to Mitolyn: Science, Benefits, and Applications
- Started by awsdwards
- Replies: 0
-
Shock move by Microsoft: Hiring freeze in consulting to cut costs after significant recent layoffs
- Started by Windows Central
- Replies: 1
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram