2 Minutes made you change your opinion??

wpn00b

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Um, sorry to break it to you but hamburger menus and awkwardly placed controls are still garbage. You might not realize it it but your thumb stretching to the top of the screen will.

The only useful info that the the ex-MS fry cook and his crayon drawings bring up is the sad realization that MS is no longer a leader but a follower. Instead of putting in some real effort to compete with Android and iOS they go ahead and butcher just about everything that made WP unique and easy to use. How much do you want to bet that live tiles are on the list of things to axe? They're a part of Metro so why not be consistent and throw that out too. They've already added a transparency option to dial them down. So the end result is a bland generic OS that's slower to access (no hubs, no pivots), no style (no Metro) and pretty much no reason to exist. Universal apps? Yeah, good luck with that. I'm sure Android and iOS users are on the edge of theirs seats in anticipation.

Exactly! Why even have choice when it comes to a mobile OS if they are all the same? I chose WP because it's unique and beautiful. It is useable. The keyboard used to be the best at word prediction but I seems to have taken a step back lately. I don't get why they are trying to blend in so much. Android and iOS get all this credit for innovation and design when from my standpoint they completely misuse the ellipsis by placing it vertically in the right corner on Android and not using it at all in iOS. It indicates that there is more that was left unspoken when writing, and illustrates that there is more info underneath it. Makes. Perfect. Sense.

Shift the ellipsis from right to left for left handed users vs right handed users and put the ribbon at the top under the beloved hamburger. I don't get why everyone hates the ellipsis and if you don't like the hamburger you are the hater...?
 

MDK22

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Maybe the hamburger is there to generate revenue ...

Imagine McDs (Burger King, In N Out, 5 Guys, etc.) sponsors the hamburger menu (icon w requisite corporate labeling) and pays $.002, everytime it's clicked, that right 5 clicks for a penny! Talk about your product placement ...
 

Torcher Death

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I don't get why you would want to change something that is not a problem & turn it into a problem, rather than focusing on the real issues. Prior to the adoption of hamburgers into WP, I hadn't seen or heard a single request for it. Its like a proverb we have in Tamil which roughly translates to "Taking a chameleon, that's just minding its own business, putting it into your shirt & then crying that its biting you".
The real issues being:
1) App gap both in terms of lacking apps & quality - at the very least Microsoft apps must give preference to WP rather than the other two in terms of updates & features. Lead & ye shall be followed.
2) Lack of a new & true flagship devices - 1520 (2013).
3) Availability of phones in stores - lack of proper displaying & low stocks, turns away even those people who want to get a WP.
4) Marketing & deals with carriers - MS really sucks in this area, dull & easily forgettable ads.
5) Getting rid of the US exclusive attitude - Bing clearly sucks outside US. Needs more localisation, seeing as more sales are outside US.

Microsoft makes great things, but then keeps rolling back just cause 'the others don't have it yet' (I miss the hubs).
& speaking of consistency, what about the consistency thats been built into the apps up till now in WP with ellipses & pivot. Why would you want menus to keep popping up from everywhere.
As the OP says, next thing you know start screen & live tiles are going to be removed, cause its not on iOS & Android.
 

DCTF

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as far as that goes ... long ago (Windows 3.0 or before) MS trained users how to interact w computers ...
& everyone else followed suit.

In fact, at the time Microsoft got a lot of stick for having stolen the early Windows concept from Apple's Macintoshes, but people forget that!


I think you and the OP are making the common mistake of looking at an online community of hundreds/thousands of people and visualising it as a single entity. Who is this "you"? Who called out the "iSheeps"? I don't see many people doing that, and nobody who does that speaks for me.

It's not as if Microsoft is just throwing darts at the wall. When they say their research bears these decisions out, they mean that. This is WP's best shot of success, you are not correct, and the recent years of unique test features have not made the OS a contender in the market. We all amplify the opinions we see that chime with ours and diminish the ones that oppose us, but market research is the only reliable yardstick (not infallible, but the most reliable).

Windows has great strengths as a mobile OS. The things that make my friends express interest are things like the Start screen, where I can completely transform the look and feel of the phone in seconds and have it feel new. They're envious of the longevity of the system, where I can be using my flagship from two and a half years ago and it's still supported so well as to be competitive in the current market (whereas their phones' manufacturers have pretty much forced them onto one or even two new handsets in that time) and still have life ahead of today. Those are the things that matter - not being so divergent that your phone is unintuitive to the uninitiated.
 

Ma Rio

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The reason why I said you is not because I think everyone else that doesn't agree with me is one group that doesn't matter to me,
it is because I don't want to make a list of people who actually are fanboys and who actually do call out iSheeps (and don't worry, there's A LOT of them).

And also don't forget that Microsoft is a company, and as a company they need money. So they won't be going towards a good OS that really rocks and makes the consumers happy, they'll be going towards anything that grants them money. I am sure they would destroy everything they've build till now only if it would give them +10% market share. And it's been proven so many times that it's not always what's the most popular that's the best.
 

stephen_az

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Yeah, I think you're right. Its the lack of hamburger menus that makes the WP Skype client so slow and lacking features, the inability to edit forwarded emails or reply with anything other than a picture, explains the lack of smart dialing, makes MS services crap outside the US, lack of led notifications, and even explains why WP's backup is so poor you lose data every time you hard reset. Yes, moving to the hamburger menu will fix all of these..... /s



Yes, not going with Metro would have fixed all the things I mentioned, not Microsoft actually paying some attention to their own platform....

Sarcasm is used at times when someone can't defend their position but 1) will not accept the alternative and 2) isn't satisfied with simply saying nothing. The story is not about any other features - it addresses one thing and does so in a logical and intelligent manner. How about sticking to the topic at hand or is it just that you have no response on this subject and feel the need to shift to alternate bits of whining?
 

stephen_az

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I really wish people would drop these silly images. They are not based upon statistically valid data. Beyond that reality, they do not take into account actual patterns of usage as described in the article (which are based upon user studies). Something may be "perfect" for one handed use (or not as the case may be) but it is irrelevant if actual studies demonstrate that is not how people use the devices in the real world. Perhaps the three percent crowd may want to consider that the 90+ percent aren't complaining bitterly about IOS and Android UI/UX. I would suggest some of the vocal complainers sit in an internet caf?, or just about anyplace with a crowd with smartphones, observe usage, and then try to defend how your positions are not inherently idiosyncratic and self motivated. It is not about what works but what a small number of people like.
 

hotphil

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Dude, you can't come on a thread like this and demonstrate an understanding of not only the issues, but real-world use too.
Hamburger haters just ain't got time for that.
 

wpn00b

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Dude, you can't come on a thread like this and demonstrate an understanding of not only the issues, but real-world use too.
Hamburger haters just ain't got time for that.

Again, not a hater of the icon in and of itself, just the implementation. Why not compromise and place the icon lower and slide the screen from the left or right (user choice) and be done with it?

People use it that way because 90% of the market belongs to the two OS's that use it. Not because people have chosen that it is the better way. 90% of people have not had the OPTION of the ellipsis at the bottom. So don't say the market had spoken when the market has never had the floor.

I'm not saying it needs to be one or the other, just that they need to seriously reconsider usability prior to implementing this tired excuse for a menu system.
 

theefman

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Sarcasm is used at times when someone can't defend their position but 1) will not accept the alternative and 2) isn't satisfied with simply saying nothing. The story is not about any other features - it addresses one thing and does so in a logical and intelligent manner. How about sticking to the topic at hand or is it just that you have no response on this subject and feel the need to shift to alternate bits of whining?


Sorry if I don't tow the line like everyone else and cheer the removal of what makes WP unique. And as for sticking on topic, the theme now is that it was Metro's design that made the platform undesirable, but the point was that doesn't explain why the apps (especially MS apps) on WP were so poor in comparison to other platforms which was, and still is the biggest problem of the platform. The UI has nothing to do with this.
 

manicottiK

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Lots of folks say that users don't buy WP because of the app gap and that firm don't develop for WP because of the customer gap. Some of that is just the normal chicken-and-egg issue, but some of it is because Microsoft may have been too revolutionary with WP7 in a way that alienated users and firms.

WP7 looked and worked very differently from iOS and Android and it came to the market after those products were far enough along that most folks knew how things "were supposed to work." Although the launchers were different, apps were pretty similar on iOS and Android, but not on WP. The WP emphasis of text, truncating it, eliminating borders and dividers from touchable objects, and removing direct-access to tabs are all things that users can see -- and dislike as odd -- quickly. Android users found WP alien in a way that didn't apply to iOS and vice versa.

The good things -- easy swiping, controls at the bottom, one-handedness, etc. -- aren't things that are evident in the 30 seconds that someone gives a phone while browsing at a store. Sure, an explanation would help, but neither the customers nor the sales folks want to engage in an education session to pick a phone. (As my mom once said to me after I tried to explain the finer points of paragraph formatting in Word for Windows 1.0, "don't give me that concept sh** -- just tell me how to stop centering.") Android and iOS can be cross-shopped with ease - WP is an oddball (that we all love).

Hubs were designed to help users by gathering similar sources of standardized information (i.e., contacts or photos) and exposing them through a single interface. This saved the users from having to install and deal with a bunch of different apps. This was a revolutionary approach and it was decidedly pro-user. However, Facebook and the big firms do not want an OS to "normalize" them into a set of generic services because it pushes them down in importance to users (and mindshare of investors).

Contrary to popular belief, those big firms are not in the business of providing services to help people find and stay in touch with other people -- they are in the business of selling eyeballs to advertisers. The only way to do that is to control the app experience to differentiate themselves from similar services. WP7's user-focused hubs were an attack on the big firms and those firms reacted by refusing to engage with WP. (Twitter even went so far as to limit developers so that third-party clients could not succeed on any platform.)

Having said all of that, it's worth nothing that the current navigational patterns are a problem for some types of apps. Hamburgers can help in that kind of app and they can help without being shoved into every app. Also, there's no reason that backing off from the old model means fully embracing the others. If WP gets a bit closer, users can understand and move to it without having to take a 2 credit course in Metro. In a weird way, this is like Gates' old "embrace and extend." Like tiles ARE the icons of iOS and Android, but done better -- embraced and extended with more information that's automatically updated. Similar things could be lurking in W10 code that's unfinished in Redmond.

Finally, while I just defended their whole strategy, I'm not sure that I like it. My apps look better than the same ones from my colleagues who develop for iOS and Android. I don't want to loose that visual edge. I'm already thinking of ways that I can introduce a "one-handed" setting that rearranges the UI to better support single-handed use. But other developers and I can't go too far or even speak intelligently about what's happening until we get documentation. That should begin to happen at the end of this month when the Build conference occurs. My fingers are crossed.
 

Spectrum90

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I

7490d503a0c23b5f1698642ff4ad421b.jpg
 

Ma Rio

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I can't wait for this to go trough, and then FAIL. I can't see one way in which bringing hamburger menus will magically aid Microsoft towards victory.
It can only **** off the current users and make things even worse. And at the end MS will realise it can no longer fund the sinking and non-profitable OS, but then it'll be too late.

Yeah, I'm overexaggerating a little, but something similar will happen. There won't be one thing that will make you stay on this OS. And then, the app gap and the app (un)quality will certanly be way more noticeable, and will be a bigger problem.
 

Slovenix

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Now think which option is actually thought out well. The Old version. Only thing that it needs is new look, not hamburgers and top. Don't get me wrong I don't have anything against hamburgers / that design and sometimes it was annoying when I switched from Android, but I got used to WP style. Now going back .. As much as I know the positives of hamburger it's just ughhhhh boring and non practical anymore. Need a better solution. Always prefered swiping.. At least on mobile phones.
 
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D M C

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Now finally we have got serious issue with Windows for Phone.

Mr. X : With this new hamburger menu my thumb have to do little more extra work which is very painful for my poor thumb.
I am a very hardworking person but with this new design ,....... man it's called slavery. We are against it.

Mr. Z: Don't worry we got this problem covered for you guys who don't want to put strain on their thumbs
25914-106.jpg

PROBLEM SOLVED
 

sumton

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stop wasting your energy and time on this its not about you or me its about windows phone future, they are going to do what they think the best solution for their product if you don't like where they are heading with windows phone design simply switch to something else but before you do it upgrade to windows 10 and try the final product then decide if you are going to stay or leave. i'll be doing the same thing if i didn't like the final product i'll switch to ios.
 

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