2 Minutes made you change your opinion??

[Ebuka Allison]

Oh dear this reminds me of Xbox fans vs Playstation fans. Cant we all just get along! ��

We can. We'll be using phones as Microsoft intends, without a Windows logo

 

[rollindice]

"1) Swiping sucks. It hides content."

What? Menu doesn't hide content then? It doesnt show even a glimpse. And lets be honest, most apps have 1-3 views, not 5+. I'm not saying remove the menu, but these things can co-exist.

"The way average people hold phones..."

The average people hold their phones in a stupid way because the menus are at the top. I have seen this myself now with W10M TP. Mail app is unusable with one hand only and the only way to even try to use one hand is to hold the phone from the middle. In W8.1 eveything can be done with one hand, meaning driving a bicycle and writing an email at the same time. Impossible now.

"2b) You don?t use the hamburger very often."

Everytime when opening mail app to check different mail boxes is not "often"?

"2c) Once you have an app bar again, in order to put the hamburger, you?ll want to use that space."
Exactly. Menu being at the bottom of the screen on W8.1 allowed reply, refresh and other buttons to be there too, AT THE BOTTOM. The those are too at the top.


Look at an app like WhatsApp, there's multiple menu options on the top, so you can swipe and have visual indication there's more to the left or right. It doesn't show just the next page on top of the app, but multiple pages, which is fine. When using iOS WhatsApp has a lot of hidden and difficult to detect buttons all over the place

and why oh why for the life of me and many other users why in the phone app you can't swipe easily from left to right to switch between Speed Dial and History, you gotta stretch fingers to very top of phone and press directly on Speed Dial or History , yeah you wanna make apps universal for phones,tablets and pcs but tablets and PCs does not have a Phone app, implementations can be done much much better, really hope changes comes.

 

[FAHMI BASSEM]

In fact, at the time Microsoft got a lot of stick for having stolen the early Windows concept from Apple's Macintoshes, but people forget that!



I think you and the OP are making the common mistake of looking at an online community of hundreds/thousands of people and visualising it as a single entity. Who is this "you"? Who called out the "iSheeps"? I don't see many people doing that, and nobody who does that speaks for me.

It's not as if Microsoft is just throwing darts at the wall. When they say their research bears these decisions out, they mean that. This is WP's best shot of success, you are not correct, and the recent years of unique test features have not made the OS a contender in the market. We all amplify the opinions we see that chime with ours and diminish the ones that oppose us, but market research is the only reliable yardstick (not infallible, but the most reliable).

Windows has great strengths as a mobile OS. The things that make my friends express interest are things like the Start screen, where I can completely transform the look and feel of the phone in seconds and have it feel new. They're envious of the longevity of the system, where I can be using my flagship from two and a half years ago and it's still supported so well as to be competitive in the current market (whereas their phones' manufacturers have pretty much forced them onto one or even two new handsets in that time) and still have life ahead of today. Those are the things that matter - not being so divergent that your phone is unintuitive to the uninitiated.

So why did MS ask us for help? feedbacks?

 

[DCTF]

So why did MS ask us for help? feedbacks?

To get more ideas. If you see something change, it's because they've already decided against the old version. It would take a massive outcry to decisively turn back the clock on this, and there isn't one. Their primary research said "ditch this", and the response is at best (for your argument) mixed.

The old system was great in its time, for small format low-res phones. Now we've moved towards large screen high-res phones, the problem to which it was an answer no longer exists.

 

[ajayden]

Lol, I just love the hate towards Microsoft from all the Android user. It is justified.

Because, all the android users are the people who paid royalty to Microsoft for using their patents on the android phones.
So the hate is justified.

And because all android users pay for the patents for life, Microsoft can splurge the money away.

Now I leave it to your hands, to decide who is smart in business sense.

 

[Ebuka Allison]

To get more ideas. If you see something change, it's because they've already decided against the old version. It would take a massive outcry to decisively turn back the clock on this, and there isn't one. Their primary research said "ditch this", and the response is at best (for your argument) mixed.

The old system was great in its time, for small format low-res phones. Now we've moved towards large screen high-res phones, the problem to which it was an answer no longer exists.

Mixed response? Are you drunk, the only ones who are supporting it will support anything Microsoft does in any case.

 

[DCTF]

Mixed response? Are you drunk, the only ones who are supporting it will support anything Microsoft does in any case.

You're angry, so you're loud, and you're rude to people: you have big voices. Those who are relatively happy about the way things are going don't react like this, and their voices are quieter, but they exist and there are lots of those too.

I wouldn't use one website, one forum, as a barometer for what's happening. We can't measure things that way. We can make sensible deductions from the events we're seeing, though. MS didn't begin this new OS without spending a lot of money on research first, so we know they're not going in blindly. We also know that whatever happens, the tablet/phone OS is going to be tightly integrated with the desktop W10, and that means W8's style is the past.

I don't know where you get the idea that anyone positive about WP10 is just a sycophant. There are lots of things MS does that I don't like, and some I do. Desktop Metro apps like Mail were an absolute mess imo, failing to produce a format that suited either side well and amplifying certain mistakes of the mobile/tablet-side system.

On the other hand, and this is an illustration of how the seemingly best idea will not survive the market's wants, I really like the Win key toggle in place of the old Start menu. I thought it was much better: tap Win, get a giant list of everything on your machine (instead of a fraction in a pop-up panel, like W7), start typing the first letters of the thing you want, click it from the reactive list, done. It doesn't matter that there was a sizeable band of us who could explain exactly why that was better, because most people disagreed with us and the feature was not persuasive to people who weren't currently using W8, so it's out. I'll live.

 

[Jazmac]

Maybe there are bigger issues to be concerned about than this. If this very minor modification will remove some confusion on the device for those unfamiliar with WP, what is the big deal? What I don't get are those people that claim the hamburger is more of an issue than the OS itself. Enough so they will bolt to another OS that don't use the dots at all and never will. I still say it all about that Windows OS and if you must go to ios or android, go with my blessings but go quietly. Its just a phone, not your life.

These kinds of stories are very tiring and I hope those 2 minutes will reduce these kinds of stories on Windows Central. It won't, because people can't let it go but I can still hope.

 

[Slovenix]

It's gonna be funny when others make new designs without hamburger, which is already being used on Android. It's actually time to move on to the next level, not to go back like Microsoft. Yes I just don't get it why would you do that. Those 2 minutes doesn't make any sense, it's just being too lazy to think about a better solution. It's actually hilarious that they didn't figure out how to implement wallpaper and when they do it still sucks. Is it so hard to put a wallpaper on the whole system, so when you multitask you can still see it like on every other OS? I'm an ultimate Microsoft fan in my area and I "fight" to show the advantages of it, but I'm getting tired of this lack of common sense in design. Their Android apps are flawless if you compare them to WP, It looks like they don't even want to build for WP.. You can't build a perfect system without love. haha I like Hamburgers on Android, but it's time to move on.

 

[Slovenix]

Who ever asked for hamburger menus on user voice ? or comments ? anywhere ? not even on Android lol

 

[DCTF]

You're still stuck in this mode of thinking that the menu stack icon was ever an Android thing or an iOS thing. It's ubiquitous, and it ran through tons of software and website designs before it hit any phone OS. Sure, it doesn't need to be on every single thing. I don't know why people are crowing about Android's app store or the YouTube app; for what reason would you need a menu key in places like those? It doesn't matter if Win has it and the others move away. All that matters is that you can use the phone and get to the things you want to do, which, by the way, WP8.1 was not very good at doing. And it crashed, many times a day, doing simple things like browsing a long news article. If they don't at the very least fix up the visual side to allow tighter design then I'll be away right behind you to one of their competitors, because I've put in too many years hoping for something better. To my eyes, the signs are good.

W8 had the right idea about unifying the phone/tablet/desktop OSs, but they made the mistake of letting them stagger forward alongside each other and they retained too many vestigial features from previous versions. That's the big mistake they're trying to rectify this time, by making these OSs complete on launch and with as little legacy detail as possible. The changes have to be sudden and major so that we don't have a Frankenstein's monster again.

 

[Keith Wallace]

I care little about menus. However, the one thing I hate is the term "hamburger menu." It's such a silly name, and it's kind of annoying to hear/read.

 

[ep1]

what are hamburger menu

 

[Slovenix]

You're still stuck in this mode of thinking that the menu stack icon was ever an Android thing or an iOS thing. It's ubiquitous, and it ran through tons of software and website designs before it hit any phone OS. Sure, it doesn't need to be on every single thing. I don't know why people are crowing about Android's app store or the YouTube app; for what reason would you need a menu key in places like those? It doesn't matter if Win has it and the others move away. All that matters is that you can use the phone and get to the things you want to do, which, by the way, WP8.1 was not very good at doing. And it crashed, many times a day, doing simple things like browsing a long news article. If they don't at the very least fix up the visual side to allow tighter design then I'll be away right behind you to one of their competitors, because I've put in too many years hoping for something better. To my eyes, the signs are good.

W8 had the right idea about unifying the phone/tablet/desktop OSs, but they made the mistake of letting them stagger forward alongside each other and they retained too many vestigial features from previous versions. That's the big mistake they're trying to rectify this time, by making these OSs complete on launch and with as little legacy detail as possible. The changes have to be sudden and major so that we don't have a Frankenstein's monster again.

I know that.. Every single piece of it. And I own both Android and WP.. There was a reason I ever bothered to get a WP.. Now it's gone because it's like going back and not forward. And Android uses it's hamburger way better, design got far better with Lolipop, and you know what, I can use Launchers for one hand use by swiping from the corners to open actions lol. Not that I care about one hand use, but when you need it, it's there. And honestly almost no one cares about universal apps because they don't use PCs that way. And as an Industrial designer I'm not taught to just copy things, but to make them better. Where did all the talent go??

 

[Slovenix]

Plus people will be like "So it looks like an Android, but without apps" .. Seriously no one (99%) cares about your security and stealing Google and nonsense like that, I couldn't care less. People care about what looks nice and what works.

 

[ajayden]

I know that.. Every single piece of it. And I own both Android and WP.. There was a reason I ever bothered to get a WP.. Now it's gone because it's like going back and not forward. And Android uses it's hamburger way better, design got far better with Lolipop, and you know what, I can use Launchers for one hand use by swiping from the corners to open actions lol. Not that I care about one hand use, but when you need it, it's there. And honestly almost no one cares about universal apps because they don't use PCs that way. And as an Industrial designer I'm not taught to just copy things, but to make them better. Where did all the talent go??

I think its still early days to talk about the UI. I can change by September or October.

 

[Slovenix]

I think its still early days to talk about the UI. I can change by September or October.

I actually really really believe that they are focusing on the inside and not the looks just yet but I beg them to be creative. Only thing that will save Windows

 

[Slovenix]

I love the changes on Windows 10 for Desktop/Modern, but Windows phone version needs more work, at least put in on pair in every single direction like colors, wallpapers, UI elements, transparency, etc

 

[Ten Four]

One of the things that attracted me to WP is to have something different, attractive, and interesting, and because I loved the way the interface worked. So far it looks like Windows 10 is going to continue the trend of moving away from all the things that attracted me to WP in the first place, making the value proposition less for me. I'm not knee-jerk opposed to hamburger menus, but obviously there is a lot of blather being leaked and pushed to justify the marketing decision to make WP more like Android and iOS. You can come up with "facts" and "studies" to support almost anything. It's how you end up with products like New Coke that flop, and why most cars on the road have no personality and look like every other car. It's how you end up with the stupid ribbons interface in Office that gets worse and worse with each iteration, IMHO. I have worked professionally with Office since it existed, and it gets harder to use, not easier, despite all the focus groups I'm sure they use. I hope Windows 10 isn't headed down the same path.

 

[fatclue_98]

It's just a phone guys and gals. Look what happens when people take it too far:

Fight over Apple iPhone 6 vs. Samsung Galaxy S6 leads to drunken brawl, stabbing