HTC beat Nokia at it's own game.

[Reflexx]

What about girls? They have weak limbs and tight pants.

Most of the tiniest girls I know could more than handle carrying around a 920.

So some of you guys have got me perplexed!

 

[brmiller1976]

R&D spending 2011

Nokia 7.3 billion$
HTC 550 million$

Now how much of the Nokia R&D went into Symbian, Asha, MeeGo, 3G patents, and other stuff with little connection to the WP lineup?

HTC has only two areas to focus: Android Phones and Windows Phones. Nokia focuses (and spends on) dozens of other areas.

 

[DungMasterFang]

Now how much of the Nokia R&D went into Symbian, Asha, MeeGo, 3G patents, and other stuff with little connection to the WP lineup?

HTC has only two areas to focus: Android Phones and Windows Phones. Nokia focuses (and spends on) dozens of other areas.

Well for comparision Apple spent 2.6 billion$ and they have alot of areas to focus. Nokia spent 7.3 billion$ last year and they are the highest spending tech company in the last decade.

 

[brmiller1976]

Lots of R&D spending can be wasteful, too. PARC, for instance, spend $15 billion during its time as a Xerox group and produced no useful products for Xerox (though it did birth the Mac, TCP/IP networking, ethernet, laser printing, the mouse, optical scanners, etc., etc.)

 

[crystal_planet]

Lots of R&D spending can be wasteful, too. PARC, for instance, spend $15 billion during its time as a Xerox group and produced no useful products for Xerox (though it did birth the Mac, TCP/IP networking, ethernet, laser printing, the mouse, optical scanners, etc., etc.)

The only money that was "wasted" was on security by letting Jobs in for a tour of the facility.

 

[brmiller1976]

Investors didn't put money into Xerox to "benefit humanity." They put it in to get a return on investment.

R&D that doesn't lead to sales and profits is waste, by definition.

 

[Aykazu]

Well, I prefer waiting for the sales and right now it would seem to me that most people will go with Nokia (Sorry Americans, everyone does not have that ridicilous exclusive battle between phones and carriers, and the smartphone market is not only in US either)

Theres one way of having some knowledge of what will happen in the future. Or well not in the future but what kind of "hype" does the product have and thats Google Trends, now correct me if im wrong but the HTC 8X is barely existent out of Wpcentral. It has not created buzz unlike the Lumia 920.

 

[crystal_planet]

Investors didn't put money into Xerox to "benefit humanity." They put it in to get a return on investment.

R&D that doesn't lead to sales and profits is waste, by definition.

Well, the business model was different then. PARC was a skunkworks facility - end of story. There was no "this is the future we are cooking at Xerox" stuff - no press releases or teaser shots of a mouse. Nothing.

PARC was a place Xerox put their geeks to go nuts. The higher ups had no vision and certainly no inkling of how this cool new tech could benefit their bottom line. When Jobs asked permission for a tour, some administrative idiot gave the go ahead. The PARC engineers were vehemently against the visit.

If the money guys at Xerox were so interested "to get a return on investment" they would have let Jobs view the tech from behind glass and done everything to safeguard this cool stuff. They didn't and Jobs stole.

That kind of garbage would never happen today.

PARC is the ultimate cautionary tale.

 

[a5cent]

R&D spending 2011
Nokia 7.3 billion$
HTC 550 million$

Now how much of the Nokia R&D went into Symbian, Asha, MeeGo, 3G patents, and other stuff with little connection to the WP lineup? HTC has only two areas to focus: Android Phones and Windows Phones. Nokia focuses (and spends on) dozens of other areas.

This time you hit the mark in terms of criticizing Nokia. Nokia's management incompetency wasn't demonstrated just by their lack of R&D focus (R&D budget distributed amongst far too many unrelated efforts), but mainly by their inability to bring any of those innovations to market... almost none of it set foot outside a Nokia research lab. That was their biggest failure.

This article (from Feb. 2011), highlights a lot of the problems related to Nokia's R&D policies. Apparently, at least a third of their R&D budget went to Symbian (which includes Asha) and MeeGo. However, since then, all efforts not related to WP have been abandoned or shifted to maintenance mode. Those developers Nokia didn't transfer to WP have since left the company.

From what I've heard, Nokia has drastically downsized R&D, but I'm told it is still around two billion (take that as a very rough estimate or a guess). That would still amount to four times HTC's annual R&D budget though... and most of that actually does go to Nokia's mobile phones division.

The main R&D difference between HTC and Nokia is that HTC really doesn't do any research at all. HTC is focused exclusively on development, just like Apple. Nothing in a HTC device is truly a technological hardware innovation. Anyone in the market can buy the same hardware (ingredients), stir (assemble) and spice (tie it all together) with software:
- any OEM can get their device Beats Audio certified (add an equalizer profile, pay Beat's Audio a license fee and your done)
- HTC uses off-the-shelf display tech
- HTC uses off-the-shelf camera tech (combined with an off-the-shelf DSP and custom software)
- etc, etc, etc.
That isn't necessarily bad. You can make a good phone that way, and if you end up preferring that dish to Nokia's that is fine... everyone's can have their own opinion on the matter. What must be acknowledged however, is that there is no hardware component in a HTC device that is technologically unique... with HTC it is only about the mix.

 

[brmiller1976]

1/3 of R&D went to Symbian?!? Yikes.

there is no hardware component in a HTC device that is technologically unique

The same is true for most volume products, including most Nokia devices.

In fact, in order to succeed in the marketplace as a volume product, it has to be that way. That's one reason that Apple dumped SCSI, PowerPC, ADB and other proprietary tech and went with PC clone internals -- it allowed them to make Macs much, much cheaper.

 

[Winterfang]

Cheaper for them to make only. So unaffordable to me =(

 

[brmiller1976]

Rumor is that the HTC 8X will be around $400 to $500 all-in. That's not terrible for a new handset.

Switch to T-Mo, and your handset is effectively free every year, since you'll save at least $50/month versus the big two.

 

[anon(5348535)]

actually I had so little faith in HTC that I forgot to watch their keynote completely. I found out about the phone while casually browsing the verge.

Its just that the 8X is basically a thinner, lighter 900 yet Nokia fans acted like it wasn't possible.

In expects the 920 does have it beaten but the 8X is just on another category design wise.

Yes it is. A bit lower category, for sure

 

[anon(5348535)]

Most of the tiniest girls I know could more than handle carrying around a 920.

So some of you guys have got me perplexed!

Beside, that is why God created purses, and Prada & Co. improved them along the way

 

[brmiller1976]

At a certain point, why not just get a 7" tablet, if you're up for a thick, heavy phone loaded up with specs?

 

[Reflexx]

At a certain point, why not just get a 7" tablet, if you're up for a thick, heavy phone loaded up with specs?

So if someone prefers something that happens to be a few grams heavier, then you conclude that they might as well get something completely different?

That would be like asking you why you don't just use a sheet of paper.

 

[cpt_hero]

I couldn't disagree more. They're pretty ugly

 

[mmacleodbrown]

Most of the tiniest girls I know could more than handle carrying around a 920.

So some of you guys have got me perplexed!

Weight and size aren't an issue when in the hand, it is how the device feels in the pocket that has alot of us wary.
As stated lots of times, Im 99.999% certain I will get the 920 even though concerned about the size, the 0.001% bit will come when I go in store and actually hold it and put it in my pocket...

 

[a5cent]

there is no hardware component in a HTC device that is technologically unique

The same is true for most volume products, including most Nokia devices.

Even if that last statement is true (in Nokia's case, I doubt it is to the degree being implied, but I can't back that up), it isn't relevant to this discussion, because the devices being discussed here do incorporate a lot of unique technology, much of which can be traced back to Nokia's research labs.

For example, ClearBlack is just a marketing name, but the technology behind it holds the world record for low reflectivity displays. Also, the camera in the 920 is all custom built Nokia technology you won't get anywhere else. Nokia also has a lot of tech that isn't as "in your face". For example, many patents involving radio reception quality. The technology covered by these patents offer tangible benefits over the competition, but aren't talked about as much. Anyway, like I said:

There is no hardware component in a HTC device that is technologically unique. It is unlikely there ever will be, because HTC does zero research. For Nokia, the opposite is true, if not for the majority of their devices, at least for those we are discussing here.

 

[ImmortalWarrior]

Even if that last statement is true (in Nokia's case, I doubt it is to the degree being implied, but can't back it up), it isn't relevant to this discussion, because the devices of interest in this thread do incorporate a lot of unique technology which can trace their roots to Nokia's research labs.

For example, ClearBlack is just a marketing name, but the technology behind it holds the world record for low reflectivity displays. The camera tech in the 920 is all custom built Nokia technology you won't get anywhere else. Nokia also has a lot of tech that isn't as "in your face". For example, many patents involving radio reception quality that do offer tangible benefits over the competition, but aren't talked about as much. Anyway, like I said:

There is no hardware component in a HTC device that is technologically unique. It is unlikely there ever will be, because HTC does zero research. For Nokia, the opposite is true, if not for the majority of their devices, at least for those we are discussing here.

I can attest to the radio quality. I can't recall any time I've dropped a call on my Lumia 900. Calls are crystal clear, even when I was in Italy with it I had no problems.