I wonder if the Sony Xperia Play guys take this much heat for the Playstation games. Money talks and bull**** walks. Nokia paid either directly to other companies or their own devs to make these apps, the others didn't gve a crap.
I find this so stupid about WP7
- Thread starter cp2_4eva
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Well with OEMs unable to tweak WP as much as Android, how else would you suggest that they attract customers besides differentiation in hardware and first party apps? If every OEM has roughly the same type of first party app, is that really enough to change the mind of a customer (e.g. Samsung and HTC both have a news/weather hub app; HTC and Nokia both have a flip phone to silence ring feature)? I would think an OEM would need a stronger edge and if time delayed exclusives are it then why not?
On a related note, this isn't any different from time specific DLC exclusives game developers/publishers grant on consoles, and yet I haven't seen much of an outcry (i could be wrong though since I don't follow gamer discourse that much).
I don't understand why everyone gets annoyed at Nokia.
HTC, Samsung, et al, had like an 18 month head start, and did nothing, they just sit there counting their Android cash, and don't promote WP.
Nokia have gone all in on WP, they got a hefty chunk of cash from Microsoft for doing so, and they are using that cash to push themselves, and the platform forward.
Nokia's nice devices, and heavy promotion have really shown that WP can sell, and with any luck, HTC, Samsung, etc will all start putting a bit more effort into WP in future.
Samsung already seem to be showing interest, by delivering their most popular new phone (slightly modified) to WP. Lets hope it continues, and users actually do some buying.
HTC, Samsung, et al, had like an 18 month head start, and did nothing, they just sit there counting their Android cash, and don't promote WP.
Nokia have gone all in on WP, they got a hefty chunk of cash from Microsoft for doing so, and they are using that cash to push themselves, and the platform forward.
Nokia's nice devices, and heavy promotion have really shown that WP can sell, and with any luck, HTC, Samsung, etc will all start putting a bit more effort into WP in future.
Samsung already seem to be showing interest, by delivering their most popular new phone (slightly modified) to WP. Lets hope it continues, and users actually do some buying.
TaliZorah
New member
I actually miss HTC's flashlight app. No ad's and it had a simple on/off button. I don't want ad's, morse code, strobe-light... etc. Dont need it. Just give me an ad-free app that will turn on my LED and turn it off.
thzman
New member
One should not forget the fact that Nokia have had their own navigation apps long before WP. Why should they not continue that tradition?
If the other manufacurers don't bother to develop something like that, why do you expect Nokia to just give their apps away just because they now happen to share the same phone OS?
If the other manufacurers don't bother to develop something like that, why do you expect Nokia to just give their apps away just because they now happen to share the same phone OS?
The Nokia branded apps aren't what I'm complaining about here. That's fine and dandy. That is theirs to claim. But when you have an app that isn't OEM branded and we all can't get it, then whats up with the OS? So, HTC has it's apps, but it's not like you don't have alternatives. The recently announced ESPN fantasy football app is ONLY on Nokia phones and to my knowledge there is no other ESPN FFL app available. Only yahoo clients. So lets say I am that customer is is teetering on the edge between Android and WP. And If I could just carry over my ESPN FFL league to my WP I'm going to change...but I don't like the Nokia phone design and the camera. Then what am I to do? I don't hate Nokia. I rather like Nokia. It's the OS thats bugging me. Maybe things will change with WP8. who knows.
GoodThings2Life
New member
Consider:
I go out and buy a Nissan Altima, because it's the car that I like and can afford.
You show up in a shiny, new Lamborghini with the most awesome car stereo ever.
Clearly, I should be able to demand the car stereo company to force Lamborghini to allow me to listen to your stereo any time I want.
I go out and buy a Nissan Altima, because it's the car that I like and can afford.
You show up in a shiny, new Lamborghini with the most awesome car stereo ever.
Clearly, I should be able to demand the car stereo company to force Lamborghini to allow me to listen to your stereo any time I want.
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rockstarzzz
New member
It is not stupid at all.
Nokia's sole OS is WP.
HTC and Sammy have WP and Android.
Nokia has one love, one life. Of course it should get all the exclusives! It must have all the attention and love from MSFT (and $$$). MSFT pays out nearly $2.5m a quarter to Nokia for this marketing and exclusivity. Why? Because Nokia isn't warming up Android's bed. Nokia has only WP in its heart. Nokia wouldn't get all these sizzle if MSFT wasn't paying out so much cash each quarter.
Why won't MSFT do this to HTC and Sammy?
Because they are sharing bed with Android too! They don't care so much about WP as Nokia does. MSFT gave them nearly 1.5 years worth of head start to see if they can love WP as much as Android and we all know how **** that turned out to be. So no exclusives for HTC and Sammy with or without economics classes totally makes sense. MSFT cannot invest in these companies if they don't invest back. Simple rule of life.
I don't see a reason NOT to like Nokia if you want a WP. So the argument that new buyers who may want to try WP won't like Nokia is BS. It's like saying you want to eat McFlurry but you won't go to McD!
Nokia's sole OS is WP.
HTC and Sammy have WP and Android.
Nokia has one love, one life. Of course it should get all the exclusives! It must have all the attention and love from MSFT (and $$$). MSFT pays out nearly $2.5m a quarter to Nokia for this marketing and exclusivity. Why? Because Nokia isn't warming up Android's bed. Nokia has only WP in its heart. Nokia wouldn't get all these sizzle if MSFT wasn't paying out so much cash each quarter.
Why won't MSFT do this to HTC and Sammy?
Because they are sharing bed with Android too! They don't care so much about WP as Nokia does. MSFT gave them nearly 1.5 years worth of head start to see if they can love WP as much as Android and we all know how **** that turned out to be. So no exclusives for HTC and Sammy with or without economics classes totally makes sense. MSFT cannot invest in these companies if they don't invest back. Simple rule of life.
I don't see a reason NOT to like Nokia if you want a WP. So the argument that new buyers who may want to try WP won't like Nokia is BS. It's like saying you want to eat McFlurry but you won't go to McD!
This analogy makes no sense. There are a few reason why people could not like a Lumia 900 or 800 now.
-Not everyone like the design of the phone.
- Camera is subpar, even wih the tweak
- Can't hold wifi connections for long without have to reboot or restart connections
why do I say this, because I was one of the first to get a Nokia Lumia 900. And so has my wife. I chose to sell my Lumia 900 and get a Titan 2. Love my Titan two more than my Lumia 900 because the camera is better and the wifi connection NEVER fails on me. Design in the 900 is better though. Also, my wife has the L900 as well...she complains all the time about her wifi and camera, but damn I sure wish I had those EXCLUSIVE APPS.
And you Nokia fanboys are not understanding my point. My problem is not with Nokia. And app is an app is an app if it isn't Nokia, HTC, Samsung branded. On the other OS if it isn't OEM branded then everyone gets it. But not on WP. So yes, HTC and Sammy are part to blame, but why aren't those non OEM branded apps on the market for everyone? Not NOKIA Maps. Not HTC Hub. I'm talking about those official third party apps.
AngryNil
New member
Try Flashlight XT. Also, CameraLight is currently free - pretty cluttered UI, but allows for flashlight while screen is locked.
Reflexx
New member
Consider that without Nokia, these apps may not go to WP7 at all.
It's not a choice of having it on Nokia or all OEMs. It's a choice of having it on Nokia or NO OEMs.
Nokia is paying to get these apps made. They deserve exclusivity for however long they negotiate.
Are you saying that if HTC, Samsung, and other OEMs can't have it, then NOBODY should? Because that's what it comes down to.
It's not a choice of having it on Nokia or all OEMs. It's a choice of having it on Nokia or NO OEMs.
Nokia is paying to get these apps made. They deserve exclusivity for however long they negotiate.
Are you saying that if HTC, Samsung, and other OEMs can't have it, then NOBODY should? Because that's what it comes down to.
GoodThings2Life
New member
Actually, the analogy makes perfect sense.
You're saying you don't like McDonald's offerings because they're fatty, unhealthy, and don't taste very good... but oh, they do have good milkshakes! They should be forced to sell McD's milkshakes at Burger King and Wendy's too!
I'm not saying your opinions of Nokia's (or McD's) products are wrong... but I AM saying your premise that everyone else should get the same stuff is wrong.
And on that note, I'm going to find a more productive thread to follow.
Oh, PS-- I'm not a Nokia ******. I've always been an HTC guy. But now that I see Nokia is throwing everything they've got at the Windows Phone platform that I love so much, well, they're starting to catch my eye, and my attitude is changing about Nokia... they're doing things right.
Daniel Ratcliffe
New member
It makes sense. Personally, I feel Nokia should get permanent exclusivity on these apps. After all, they're forking out the money to get these apps made, why shouldn't they be for Nokia only, permanently? Let's consider each company demands $10 million per app, that's a TON of cash to be parting with.
Yes, I'm a HTC user on Windows Phone, my next phone will be either HTC (WP) or Nokia. But tell HTC and Samsung etc to get off Android for good and get on WP only if you want to see them get money for it, so they can get the exclusives. Like someone said, Samsung, HTC, etc, are primarily Android, couldn't give two hoots about WP, whereas Nokia are determined to see Windows Phone succeed, and want Android to fail.
Sure, other OS's don't do the exclusive phone brand apps (that aren't their own, things like ESPN), but that's because people flock to Android for development. If WP8 really takes off then it won't be needed as developers will also flock to WP8. Without those apps, WP8 will have a much higher chance of failing. So it becomes a case of either get them to Nokia for x months, or we never get them on WP PERIOD.
Exactly, in fact, at least in the UK, you could go to McD's, and order a milkshake there, and nothing else. I do it quite a lot. So they have even LESS reason to demand that KFC, Burger King, etc, also sell those milkshakes.
Yes, I'm a HTC user on Windows Phone, my next phone will be either HTC (WP) or Nokia. But tell HTC and Samsung etc to get off Android for good and get on WP only if you want to see them get money for it, so they can get the exclusives. Like someone said, Samsung, HTC, etc, are primarily Android, couldn't give two hoots about WP, whereas Nokia are determined to see Windows Phone succeed, and want Android to fail.
Sure, other OS's don't do the exclusive phone brand apps (that aren't their own, things like ESPN), but that's because people flock to Android for development. If WP8 really takes off then it won't be needed as developers will also flock to WP8. Without those apps, WP8 will have a much higher chance of failing. So it becomes a case of either get them to Nokia for x months, or we never get them on WP PERIOD.
Exactly, in fact, at least in the UK, you could go to McD's, and order a milkshake there, and nothing else. I do it quite a lot. So they have even LESS reason to demand that KFC, Burger King, etc, also sell those milkshakes.
Squatting Hen
New member
I think Nokia can actually ruin this for Windows Phone. Yes, every Nokia fan/owner will praise and defend this, but if you could just see the entire picture for a moment you can understand how this is not great for WP.
Again, Nokia, HTC, Samsung developed apps are fine to stay on their own devices. The issue is apps that are widely available on another operating systems phones are only available to Nokia WPs. This actually makes me want to go switch to another OS where I know when an app comes out, I don?t have to hope my phones manufacture paid the developer to have exclusive rights. All it does it break the bond and simplicity that WP is supposedly trying to build.
WP is trying to become a noteworthy competitor in the phone business, why is it good to alienate customers and other manufactures to universal apps? How is that good for the OS and WP in general? I would feel the same way if any of the manufactures were doing this.
Let?s say this does work and Nokia gets what they want by being The Windows Phone. If sales are still low, Samsung and HTC might just start phoning it in, or quit producing WP?s altogether. Then we would only have one device, like Apple, and no competition or choice.
It?s nice to have a choice. Granted, Nokia and any other manufacture would prefer to be the only choice, but for WP, which is trying to develop and become more popular, what Nokia is doing is just not positive for WP in general. Hopefully this does not delay apps, as they know now that they can wait for Nokia to purchase the app instead of bringing it out on their own.
Anyway, this stuff just frustrates me a bit.
I just don't think it is good to make WP more confusing to customers. I can understand if certain apps are not on WP, but are on iOS or Android, they are different platforms. I just feel that within the OS, there should be a cohesive bond.
Again, Nokia, HTC, Samsung developed apps are fine to stay on their own devices. The issue is apps that are widely available on another operating systems phones are only available to Nokia WPs. This actually makes me want to go switch to another OS where I know when an app comes out, I don?t have to hope my phones manufacture paid the developer to have exclusive rights. All it does it break the bond and simplicity that WP is supposedly trying to build.
WP is trying to become a noteworthy competitor in the phone business, why is it good to alienate customers and other manufactures to universal apps? How is that good for the OS and WP in general? I would feel the same way if any of the manufactures were doing this.
Let?s say this does work and Nokia gets what they want by being The Windows Phone. If sales are still low, Samsung and HTC might just start phoning it in, or quit producing WP?s altogether. Then we would only have one device, like Apple, and no competition or choice.
It?s nice to have a choice. Granted, Nokia and any other manufacture would prefer to be the only choice, but for WP, which is trying to develop and become more popular, what Nokia is doing is just not positive for WP in general. Hopefully this does not delay apps, as they know now that they can wait for Nokia to purchase the app instead of bringing it out on their own.
Anyway, this stuff just frustrates me a bit.
I just don't think it is good to make WP more confusing to customers. I can understand if certain apps are not on WP, but are on iOS or Android, they are different platforms. I just feel that within the OS, there should be a cohesive bond.
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rockstarzzz
New member
+1 exactly my thoughts your words! I couldn't have wrote it any better!
And that! So lets call all these exclusives - "milkshakes" from now on?
I think Nokia can actually ruin this for Windows Phone. Yes, every Nokia fan/owner will praise and defend this, but if you could just see the entire picture for a moment you can understand how this is not great for WP.
Again, Nokia, HTC, Samsung developed apps are fine to stay on their own devices. The issue is apps that are widely available on another operating systems phones are only available to Nokia WPs. This actually makes me want to go switch to another OS where I know when an app comes out, I don?t have to hope my phones manufacture paid the developer to have exclusive rights. All it does it break the bond and simplicity that WP is supposedly trying to build.
WP is trying to become a noteworthy competitor in the phone business, why is it good to alienate customers and other manufactures to universal apps? How is that good for the OS and WP in general? I would feel the same way if any of the manufactures were doing this.
Let?s say this does work and Nokia gets what they want by being The Windows Phone. If sales are still low, Samsung and HTC might just start phoning it in, or quit producing WP?s altogether. Then we would only have one device, like Apple, and no competition or choice.
It?s nice to have a choice. Granted, Nokia and any other manufacture would prefer to be the only choice, but for WP, which is trying to develop and become more popular, what Nokia is doing is just not positive for WP in general. Hopefully this does not delay apps, as they know now that they can wait for Nokia to purchase the app instead of bringing it out on their own.
Anyway, this stuff just frustrates me a bit.
I just don't think it is good to make WP more confusing to customers. I can understand if certain apps are not on WP, but are on iOS or Android, they are different platforms. I just feel that within the OS, there should be a cohesive bond.
Finally someone who gets it and is not all over the Nokia stick. I love Nokia for what they are trying to do, but all in all MS simply wants people to use their OS. And Nokia isn't paying for those app. MS basically is writing them check to push the OS.
Your analogy would make since if you put it THIS way
Operating system = Fast food chain
Nokia = McDonald's
Burger = Lumia 900
Special sauce = exclusive app
Then this point you are trying to make would make more sense, but this isn't fast food. This is smartphones and apps. Another OS has it to where everyone gets special sauce. WP makes it to where only Nokia gets special sauce? Again, I am not faulting Nokia, lets be clear.
Explain to me how it is possible for an app that is not OEM branded to be exclusive.
Non OEM branded apps on other OS aren't exclusive. So my question is not WHY, but HOW is it possible? What in the WP framework makes it possible for those exclusive apps that are Nokia branded to only be on Nokia?
rockstarzzz
New member
our analogy would make since if you put it THIS way
Operating system = Fast food chain
Nokia = McDonald's
Nokia WP = ALL McDonald Products
Exclusive Apps = Exclusive McD Milkshake range
This isn't fast food and hence the analogy.
Another OS = another type of food chain, not fast food chain. So we don't care what another type of food chain includes. Because Pizza Hut Pizza is not same as McD Double Cheese burger - different cuisine, different OS.
Now, if in this world McDonald's was the ONLY business that sells burgers i.e. fast food and no pizza, no chicken wings then of course it will need that added line of Milkshakes to market its value! So they add this milkshake as a meal deal with every McDonald product! Buy a burger, get milkshake free. Buy chips, get milkshake free. Buy an apple buy, get milkshake free. People start flocking to McD for just milkshakes at one point, because they are SO good!
Now in real world, smartphone scenarios - it is possible to get ESPN (a third party app) as an exclusive app because ESPN guys were sitting in the porch sipping their long island tea counting their money they made from that Android app they launched a year ago.
Nokia rep walked in, exchanged greetings and said "Guys here is the deal, those MSFT dudes provide us $2.5m each quarter and we have no freaking idea what to do of this. Someone suggested lets bribe those EPSN guys and get them on board. Pay them ****eload in advance so that they get off their porch and make an app. Are you interested?"
ESPN dude said "We want $5000 advance" Nokia guy smirks and says "It's MSFT money who cares, there $7500 now go and make me an app exclusive that runs only on Nokia and keep it ready in 5 days"
Nokia guy goes to MSFT "Listen up. You know those ESPN guys who never made even a pigeon sort of communication with you since Oct 2010, now in 2012 we've got them making an app for YOUR platform which will be ready in 5 days, but we had to pay them a little money and ask for it to be exclusive to us. Is it OK?"
MSFT goes furious "But WHY?! I can't be partial. You ain't the only ones making my phones. What about Sammy and HTC?"
Nokia "Well, ok we use only your OS and not other OSes. Sammy and HTC are already making all that money. We are broke, we will die, consider our partnerships we signed few months back and our loyalty?"
MSFT "Ok, lets make it look real. You keep doing what you just did. Get us LOTS more apps. Keep them exclusive for yourself. But NOT MORE than 6 months max. Deal?"
Nokia "Deal"
And they lived happily ever after.
Squatting Hen
New member
The fast food analogy is pretty ridiculous as you can cater it to however you see fit.
In other words, this situation can be like a McDonald’s Milkshake. You go in to McDonalds (the OS) and ask for a Chocolate Milkshake (specific app). Unfortunately to get a chocolate Milkshake you have to buy a Filet O Fish Combo (Nokia). But you don’t like fish or feel like fish right now.
The thing is, like everything else, people will defend or support things with emotions and not always be able to look at things from the outside. It’s great we are getting apps, but this is not the best way to do it for WP.
In other words, this situation can be like a McDonald’s Milkshake. You go in to McDonalds (the OS) and ask for a Chocolate Milkshake (specific app). Unfortunately to get a chocolate Milkshake you have to buy a Filet O Fish Combo (Nokia). But you don’t like fish or feel like fish right now.
The thing is, like everything else, people will defend or support things with emotions and not always be able to look at things from the outside. It’s great we are getting apps, but this is not the best way to do it for WP.
It most definitely isn't the best way, but it seems like folks think it's the ONLY WAY. Which I don't believe it is not. MS is leaving it to Nokia to do the leg work to get companies to jump on the development of an app. At least that's what it looks like to me. I'm not some scorned individual complaining about exclusive apps. I just don't get he logic in it. The only people that win are Lumia owner. Screw the rest of the people who also like WP.
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