I find this so stupid about WP7

[Reflexx]

Finally someone who gets it and is not all over the Nokia stick. I love Nokia for what they are trying to do, but all in all MS simply wants people to use their OS. And Nokia isn't paying for those app. MS basically is writing them check to push the OS.

Nokia IS paying for the apps.

If you pay for something, should we say that you aren't paying for it, but your employer is?

MS paid Nokia for the use of Nokia's world market licenses and some of their techology, like their maps. This stuff is getting integrated for WP users of all OEM handsets. This is Nokia proprietary technology.

MS is also paying Nokia as part of their commitment to exclusivity.

Nokia takes the money the rightfully earned and uses it to bring in apps from 3rd parties that would otherwise not be bringing their apps to WP7 at all. In return, they want an exclusivity period.

MS is also doing what they can to get devs to make apps for WP. But MS can't go after everyone. And you don't notice or appreciate what MS is doing because you have access to the apps. You only notice the work that Nokia is doing and are upset that other OEMs aren't benefitting right away from that work.

The next time you buy something for yourself, remember to also buy one for everyone else that didn't earn that money. After all, it's not your money right? You're not paying for it.

 

[Squatting Hen]

Love can be blind. Whether it's for a person, device, or a company I guess. I do see the point that if Nokia paid for it, it should be theirs...but this should not be happening in an OS that is trying to gain customers and support. Wouldn't this be considered a lack of effort by MS, if Nokia is just taking MS's money and buying the apps? Why isn't MS going around the middle man (Nokia) and getting the apps on their own? Seems pretty odd to me. Does MS not care? I hope that is not the case. MS should be the one bringing Universal apps to the WP OS.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. This is the way WP works for now. It is wrong, and should not be this way. A lot of things in life don't work the way they should. Just add this to the list.

 

[blehblehbleh]

Finally someone who gets it and is not all over the Nokia stick. I love Nokia for what they are trying to do, but all in all MS simply wants people to use their OS. And Nokia isn't paying for those app. MS basically is writing them check to push the OS.

It took a while to flush out what you were really getting at. Your first post didn't wasn't very clear. I don't think it's really a detriment to WP, and really that's a doomsday scenario. Worst comes to worst, I wouldn't put it past MS to start pumping out its own devices, finding other OEMs that are more receptive, or creating product bundles for failing OEMs.

Yet, it's not like MS is playing favorites. All OEMs are on equal footing save for the special arrangement that Nokia and MS made, but that's a special circumstance because Nokia is betting the farm. Outside of that Samsung and HTC could've grabbed exclusives too but they didn't and it's really no duty of MS to help them out or demand that they do beyond the original terms of their partnerships, absent some renegotiation.

I don't understand how you can cast blame on MS when really the blame lies with other OEMs for not taking a risk/creating differentiation, except the arguments that MS isn't being flexible enough with WP or hasn't made WP as compelling for OEMs. Those are the arguments that should be at issue not Nokia grabbing third party exclusives and MS letting it happen. Nokia's just making do with what it has however it can.

 

[Reflexx]

Love can be blind. Whether it's for a person, device, or a company I guess. I do see the point that if Nokia paid for it, it should be theirs...but this should not be happening in an OS that is trying to gain customers and support. Wouldn't this be considered a lack of effort by MS, if Nokia is just taking MS's money and buying the apps? Why isn't MS going around the middle man (Nokia) and getting the apps on their own? Seems pretty odd to me. Does MS not care? I hope that is not the case. MS should be the one bringing Universal apps to the WP OS.

MS is going after devs and trying to pay them to bring over apps. Even paying some. You just don't notice it because all you see is an app in the Marketplace.

But MS doesn't have relationships with everyone for every app.

Nokia has taken the initiative to go after some developers on their own.

Just because Nokia is doing it doesnt mean that MS isn't.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. This is the way WP works for now. It is wrong, and should not be this way. A lot of things in life don't work the way they should. Just add this to the list.

What is "wrong?"

Would it be less "wrong" if these apps didn't make it to WP at all? Then everyone could equally miss out entirely?

 

[power5]

Fast food analogy should be
Mobile market= fast food
os=McDonald's, burger king, wendys
nokia=Mcdonalds
Nokia Wp apps=McDonald's entire menu
All other apps exclusive to nokia=coca cola soft drinks

But you can not get coke at burger king any more because it's exclusive to mcdonalds and burger king and Wendy's customers can not have it anymore. But if you go with sonic or rally's you can still get coke. Only Wendy's and burger king are not able to get it.

Not favorable for the WP customers.

Hopefully more acceptance of WP will get rid of this though.

 

[Squatting Hen]

MS is going after devs and trying to pay them to bring over apps. Even paying some. You just don't notice it because all you see is an app in the Marketplace.

But MS doesn't have relationships with everyone for every app.

Nokia has taken the initiative to go after some developers on their own.

Just because Nokia is doing it doesnt mean that MS isn't.



What is "wrong?"

Would it be less "wrong" if these apps didn't make it to WP at all? Then everyone could equally miss out entirely?

Again, we just disagree. MS should be in charge of bring these apps to their OS, not one of their manufactures. It just breaks the ecosystem. I do not believe these apps would not be coming to the market without Nokia. They will. The developers should want to bring them and MS should be helping with that. Granted the install base is very minimal at the moment which may cause developers not to publish to WP. Maybe we can get some of those cheap Android manufactures to make a windows phone and purchase top apps that are not out yet. Would that make you as happy?

I am glad that HTC and Samsung are not doing this. It would be even more upsetting. You shouldn't need three different phones on the same OS to access the same apps that other devices on other OS's have. Take a step back and see how this can get really bad if it starts a trend. If this continues, and other manufactures start following in Nokia's footsteps, it will just hinder WP.

It's good business for Nokia, just bad business for WP cusomers.

What we don't need:

If I want instragram on WP I have to use a HTC Phone.
If I want to play EA games I have to get a Samsung.
If I want Big Fish Games I have to get a Nokia.

Screw it, I just get an iphone or an Android so I can have everything.

 

[blehblehbleh]

The developers should want to bring them and MS should be helping with that. Granted the install base is very minimal at the moment which may cause developers not to publish to WP. Maybe we can get some of those cheap Android manufactures to make a windows phone and purchase top apps that are not out yet. Would that make you as happy?

He just said and it's known that MS has been putting down cash to not only court developers but help them in building their apps for WP.

I am glad that HTC and Samsung are not doing this. It would be even more upsetting. You shouldn't need three different phones on the same OS to access the same apps that other devices on other OS's have. Take a step back and see how this can get really bad if it starts a trend. If this continues, and other manufactures start following in Nokia's footsteps, it will just hinder WP.

It's good business for Nokia, just bad business for WP cusomers.

What we don't need:

If I want instragram on WP I have to use a HTC Phone.
If I want to play EA games I have to get a Samsung.
If I want Big Fish Games I have to get a Nokia.

Screw it, I just get an iphone or an Android so I can have everything.

I agree to an extent, but it's doomsday scenario and in that worst case people would make their complaints known through their wallets, particularly against app developers.

If a trend is started then the only ecosystems that would be safe would probably be iPhone or BB. You don't think that all parties would do the same for Android? Of course they would.

But even if it did happen how do we know the fallout would be that bad? The void would leave open a chance for upcoming app developers to dominate on other manufacturer phones at the loss of the developer who thought it was smart to stay exclusive, and in that instance there could be an even better app.

Nevertheless, I think it's an unfounded belief to think that things wouldn't correct themselves before they got that far into that doomsday scenario. Exclusivity deals come at a price for both parties, whether in how much money is being dropped or how much opportunity is lost by staying exclusive to one party. I would think all parties aren't needlessly foolish or greedy.

 

[Reflexx]

Again, we just disagree. MS should be in charge of bring these apps to their OS, not one of their manufactures.

Nobody is "in charge" of this. Both MS and Nokia want to bring apps to the ecosystem. HTC and Samsung SHOULD want to. But apparently when they don't do squat, they get a pass. Instead, you blame the company that is actively trying to provide extra value to its customers.

It just breaks the ecosystem. I do not believe these apps would not be coming to the market without Nokia. They will.

It does not break the ecosystem. Where do you even get that idea? Nothing is broken. I'm not even sure if you know what you mean when you say "breaks the ecosystem."

As for the apps coming... they weren't. It took a company to actually take real initiative to bring these apps over.

The developers should want to bring them and MS should be helping with that.

MS has been trying to help with that. They haven't been sitting on their butts. They've been actively trying to recruit developers to make apps. What makes you think that they haven't been trying?

Granted the install base is very minimal at the moment which may cause developers not to publish to WP.

This isn't a small issue. It's a BIG reason why devs don't make WP apps. It's hard to make money with a small install base.

Heck, it's hard to make money with a big install base like Apple and Android have. It's super hard with a small install base.

Maybe we can get some of those cheap Android manufactures to make a windows phone and purchase top apps that are not out yet. Would that make you as happy?

If some of those companies took the initiative and spent the time and resources to bring those apps over, then more power to them. Good for them. I hope it works out for them. Much better than it not coming over at all.

And if the exclusivity period isn't permanent, but only a few months, then that's a bonus. That means that they spent their own time and resources so that eventually everyone could benefit.

But then there would be people that would complain about it because they want the benefit of other peoples' work.

I am glad that HTC and Samsung are not doing this. It would be even more upsetting. You shouldn't need three different phones on the same OS to access the same apps that other devices on other OS's have. Take a step back and see how this can get really bad if it starts a trend. If this continues, and other manufactures start following in Nokia's footsteps, it will just hinder WP.

This is only while WP has a small install base and developers aren't choosing to come of their own accord.

If Samsung and HTC did the same thing as Nokia, that would be awesome.

Why?

Because 3-6 months later, after the exclusivity period ends, we'd have tons more apps available for everyone.

It's good business for Nokia, just bad business for WP cusomers.

No.

Not having the apps come at all would be bad.

Some people having to wait a few months for an exclusivity period to end isn't that big a deal.

What we don't need:

If I want instragram on WP I have to use a HTC Phone.
If I want to play EA games I have to get a Samsung.
If I want Big Fish Games I have to get a Nokia.

Screw it, I just get an iphone or an Android so I can have everything.

Then go get an iPhone or Android.

Because until WP has a bigger install base, these devs won't come over unless someone entices them to.

Most of this may be moot soon enough anyway with Windows Phone 8 being so similar to Windows 8, making it cheap for devs to port apps. That, and the support of the Unity game engine which allows easy and cheap ports.

 

[Squatting Hen]

That's great. We still disagree. You think it's great, I don't. It doesn't matter. Have a good night.

 

[power5]

I'm sorry, how is MS helping? I have not seen a single windows phone ad. I have seen a few Nokia windows phones ads, but not MS ads.

 

[Reflexx]

I'm sorry, how is MS helping? I have not seen a single windows phone ad. I have seen a few Nokia windows phones ads, but not MS ads.

The conversation was about apps. MS has been courting developers.

Perhaps you're in the wrong thread? MS's lack of advertising is a whole different conversation.

 

[Reflexx]

That's great. We still disagree. You think it's great, I don't. It doesn't matter. Have a good night.

I didn't say it's "great." Ideally the market would be big enough where this wouldn't be necessary to bring in devs.

But that's not the reality we live in.

So in order to bring more apps in, devs have to have their risks minimized. That is often done with money.

I just believe that a company deserves to benefit from the time, labor, and money they expend to negotiate a deal.

I guess you believe otherwise. And such differences are pretty fundamental in value systems, so it's probably unlikely we'd ever agree.

 

[scottcraft]

Considering WP has almost zero marketshare at this time, I think Microsoft has done a terrific job of reaching out to developers and getting some decent apps on WP. I know when Brandon Watson was with MS before he went to Amazon he did a lot of outreach. I don't see anything wrong with Nokia going above and beyond to get some apps to their phones. If Nokia had these apps under contract forever that would be bad, but having some exclusivity for a few months to set their phones apart isn't that horrible to me. Ideally this wouldn't be necessary, but with the rigid specs on hardware and software with WP7/7.5, there aren't as many ways to make a phone stand apart as their are on android. I think once WP gets close to 10% of the market these exclusive deals will be a thing of the past as more popular developers will see the platform as a viable alternative.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I'm sorry, how is MS helping? I have not seen a single windows phone ad. I have seen a few Nokia windows phones ads, but not MS ads.

The conversation was about apps. MS has been courting developers.

Perhaps you're in the wrong thread? MS's lack of advertising is a whole different conversation.

I did hear Windows Phone mentioned in an ad for an app.

While listening to FM radio in my car, Clear Channel ran an ad for iHeartRadio that mentioned getting the app on "Windows Phones including the Nokia Lumia 900". That device just happened to be mentioned, but the app clearly did not exclude other Windows Phones.

 

[btbam91]

Nokia paid ESPN for the app, so Nokia is entitled to the benefits. End. Of. Story.

 

[MrSean490]

Hopefully all these exclusivities will be nullified in WP8 and they're only active in WP7. If they're still going to be there in WP8 then my next OS will be an android.

 

[Squatting Hen]

I just believe that a company deserves to benefit from the time, labor, and money they expend to negotiate a deal.

I guess you believe otherwise. And such differences are pretty fundamental in value systems, so it's probably unlikely we'd ever agree.

Just wanted you to know that your guess about my beliefs is untrue. I just find it unfortunate that WP has to operate this way. It is sad but apparent not only from this thread but many others, the basis towards Nokia is overwhelming. I am not claiming this is you Wining Guy, but overall Nokia can do no wrong around here.

Its sad WP has to operate like this.

 

[mprice86]

Hopefully all these exclusivities will be nullified in WP8 and they're only active in WP7. If they're still going to be there in WP8 then my next OS will be an android.

They'll be nullified, or made irrelevant as and when the larger developers start bringing their apps to the platform on their own.

I don't mind the exclusives, mostly because I own a Lumia 800 anyway, and I think Nokia are well within their rights to keep apps for their handsets if they have paid the developer to produce the app.

However, I do think it sets a dangerous precedent, in that even when WP8 arrives, larger developers will hold off with releasing their apps in the hope that MS or Nokia will eventually pay them to make it.

 

[mprice86]

I am not claiming this is you Wining Guy, but overall Nokia can do no wrong around here.

I don't think it's that they can't do any wrong, threads like this are evidence of that surely? There was widespread displeasure at the battery life and bass sound on the Lumia 800 as well as multiple issues with the L900.

Any bias towards Nokia here is 99% based on one thing; regardless of the fact that they're getting money from MS, they are the only company currently producing WP devices that appears to be making any effort what so ever.

They won a lot of fans by acknowledging software problems and promptly issuing fixes and offering replacement devices. As well as that, their true "own brand" apps like Nokia Drive and so on, genuinely add value to the WP experience.

 

[jmshub]

I think Nokia should have an exclusive period with these apps. These apps in question are there because Nokia courted these developers (ie, they paid devs). Now you could say that this is unfair, they are using the money that msft paid them, and you'd be right. But Nokia could do what they wanted to with that money (within reason) they started investing in devs to build those killer apps to add to the platform. Microsoft, with all their money wasn't able to court these apps,whether they lacked the relationship with these devs, or just didn't have the insight to go talk to them.
And Nokia drive is widely considered to be excellent (I never used it, I'm on Samsung), but that is getting rolled into wp8 for everyone. Of all the oems, they are the only ones who are investing in any significant way to the platform in general.

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