Is "Metro" dying already?

markfive

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I'm not sure it's a sudden 180 (although it's definitely a 90 :wink:)

I would argue that the original FB app wasn't a true Metro app anyway, so I don't see it as much of an issue. The redesign still has Metro elements but is closer to the FB experience that Joe Public know and love, which means it's more accessible for them - and here and now I'd say that's what's important.
 

theefman

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The discussion involves more the Metro Design Language that the Metro/Clean design as a whole. Metro as a whole is here to stay not only that but everyone is copying it or trying to, from Android (in many cases) to the new rumors of a "clean" design in the upcoming iOS 7.

Is the design language and guidance for apps that looks like it's fading away.

I dont think so, maybe being evolved to what works better but not fading away. Its obvious to me that in this case its a conscious decision to more closely align with Facebook's design language and experience rather than providing a completely alien look and feel that may be hard for new users to adopt. There are still elements of Metro in the app so its clear MS is not ditching it. And some apps are probably not as well suited to the original minimalistic design language so its natural for Metro to be less obvious in those cases.
 

rockstarzzz

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How isn't the original app non-metro? That was as close to metro as you could get in design without making it black and white of course! Not functionality wise, I agree it sucked big time on that. But in terms of design, the use of banner space, the panorama with content, no?
 

Chris_Kez

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I got on the forum basically to create my own post about this- so I'm glad to see this here. Couple of thoughts:
  • I'm glad to see updates to key cross-platform apps like Facebook and Twitter. Having these apps, and having them be feature-complete is critical.
  • That said, I'd prefer to see these apps custom-built for WP8 and be a bit more "metro/modern". Go ahead and scale down some of the fonts, reduce a bit of the blank space, introduce a little color or some icons here or there- but please be recognizably and distinctly a metro-style WP8 app.
  • So many people are touting this beta over the current one for feature/performance reasons- but that is not the issue. By all means, update the feature set and performance.
  • Why does FB or Twitter need to look and work identically across platforms? Sorry, but I don't care if an iOS or Android user can't instantly grasp how a WP version works.
  • If apps look the same on WP as they do on Android, then what exactly is the point of differentiation for WP? Please don't tell me integration with other MS products/services.

I'm hoping against hope that the MS will update this design with something more metro/modern so that the WP design language and UI experience remains a point of distinction. Also, I hope that they expand the capabilities of the People hub in general.
 

rockstarzzz

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I got on the forum basically to create my own post about this- so I'm glad to see this here. Couple of thoughts:
  • I'm glad to see updates to key cross-platform apps like Facebook and Twitter. Having these apps, and having them be feature-complete is critical.
  • That said, I'd prefer to see these apps custom-built for WP8 and be a bit more "metro/modern". Go ahead and scale down some of the fonts, reduce a bit of the blank space, introduce a little color or some icons here or there- but please be recognizably and distinctly a metro-style WP8 app.
  • So many people are touting this beta over the current one for feature/performance reasons- but that is not the issue. By all means, update the feature set and performance.
  • Why does FB or Twitter need to look and work identically across platforms? Sorry, but I don't care if an iOS or Android user can't instantly grasp how a WP version works.
  • If apps look the same on WP as they do on Android, then what exactly is the point of differentiation for WP? Please don't tell me integration with other MS products/services.

I'm hoping against hope that the MS will update this design with something more metro/modern so that the WP design language and UI experience remains a point of distinction. Also, I hope that they expand the capabilities of the People hub in general.

THAT should have been my first post! Well put together.
 

squire777

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I would rather see MS venture out and do different things in terms of UI and design, rather than get tunnel vision and stick to rigid guidelines.
 

theefman

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I got on the forum basically to create my own post about this- so I'm glad to see this here. Couple of thoughts:
  • Why does FB or Twitter need to look and work identically across platforms? Sorry, but I don't care if an iOS or Android user can't instantly grasp how a WP version works.
  • If apps look the same on WP as they do on Android, then what exactly is the point of differentiation for WP? Please don't tell me integration with other MS products/services.

I'm hoping against hope that the MS will update this design with something more metro/modern so that the WP design language and UI experience remains a point of distinction. Also, I hope that they expand the capabilities of the People hub in general.

Two things: if the blurb on the WP blog is accurate and not just a general comment its possible FB is now actually involved with the app development in which case, and taking into account their recent moves to unify the FB experience, the new look is probably driven by them in exchange for a better WP experience. Speculation, but possible.

Secondly, WP will always remain unique; its live tiles will not be duplicated anywhere (unless google steals it, apple wont cos of agreements with MS), lock screen integration, lenses and yes, the design language. Its still there, still based on typography but there are going to be obvious exceptions. I doubt we are going to see all WP apps suddenly revamped to give them an ios or google look so Metro will continue.

Microsoft does need to continue to work on evolving and expanding WP's capabilities UI wise, just as they've done with Windows 8, making things more discoverable, adding more tile sizes, etc. I would hope that same evolution will continue for WP but only MS knows what direction it will take but we should certainly expect the Metro UI to continue to evolve and improve.
 

Chris_Kez

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When you look at it from an App/Service>OS in terms of importance perspective. It all makes sense. Now 100s of millions of FB users are going to open the WP FB app and take to it like duck to a water. Earlier, they would be disgusted with the "metro" app.
This is undoubtedly a good thing for WP

Wrong. First of all, where are these 100's of millions of Facebook users sampling the WP app? There aren't anywhere near that number of WP users worldwide. The people who see this and other flagship apps are overwhelmingly those who have purchased a WP device. And presumably they purchased that device precisely because they prefer WP to Android or iOS. Do you really think the problem with the original FB or Twitter apps was about metro design language? It wasn't about poor performance or missing features?
 

markfive

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It wasn't completely a Metro app - the fonts, spacing, panorama etc were all spot on. But once you were further into the app (for example at the wall post level) it lost some of that and IMO was worse for it.
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a *bad* Metro app. But it wasn't a *flagship* Metro app.

Can't believe I'm sitting here *defending* the old FB app lol....
 

ttsoldier

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I'm no app developer but if it is possible, maybe they just want to get the "background" right. The foundation of the app, basic functionally etc working properly. Then when all that's good, they'll just slap on a metro styled theme :p
 

Chris_Kez

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...But once you were further into the app (for example at the wall post level) it lost some of that (Metro design) and IMO was worse for it.
I think you're right. It was almost like they just cut up the app into a few big buckets, slapped on some "metro" design elements and called it a day. What they should have done was re-design it from the ground up as a new app. Might it have taken users some time to figure everything out? Sure, but the integrated people hub functionality could have nursed users through that learning period.
 

abel920

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Metro just doesn't work 100% all the time. Like this one for instance. It's all red and dull and... undesirable..

Nokia%20Lumia%20822%20Hand.jpg


Look at my home screen from a few days ago.. Doesn't it look better? If we stick too much to Metro, there won't be life. Just information from the live tiles. That sounds too boring as it is. :p If we want WP8 to be better, we need to make the most of the features! I used to whine so much about backgrounds because I felt that my home screen was too dry and lifeless, but since I found Wiztiles Pro and Skinery, things have gotten so much livelier.

abel920's summer homescreen, I hope you like it. :)
View attachment 32858



I like the richer features and UI. And no, I'm not moving to Android.

It's not dying per-se, it's refining. It's becoming more and more like Windows. :)

Minimalistic is subjective, it doesn't work for everyone. I want lots of user customizations and what not, you like minimalistic UI. But we both agree that Windows Phone is awesome. :)
 

JonnieLasVegas

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I agree with OP. The look of Facebook beta looks like s h i t! It's an ugly mobile wrapper! Luckily I don't need to use it (no Facebook). But looking at it on my gf's phone we both hated it. Why wouldn't they just add extra functions to the already beautiful, METRO style Facebook app they already have?
 

Darkgift

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I agree. I prefer the style of the original Metro FB app to the beta. I feel like I'm just on the mobile site with the beta app.
 

Jupast

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Can't be dying if Apple is apparently going to blatantly rip it off for their next iPhone.

When done right, Metro is beautiful, although i do think there are some instances where it doesn't work as well.

I'm probably in the minority in thinking that the (mostly) one colour tiles interface works well on the Phone, but looks like a Unicorn puked a rainbow on a Windows 8 machine. Reminds me of a Fisher Price toy.
 

spaulagain

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To me, the core aspect of Metro is that it is flat design and typography is well thought out. While I agree that the new FB ventures away from the standards swipe with large navigation titles at the top, its still very metro.

The main point of Metro is to be honest of it's medium and bring the content forward. The gradients of other UIs do the opposite.

The new Facebook app is fine, but it doesn't excite me.
 

ah06

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Metro is definitely evolving. Its pain points (wastage of space, too heavy emphasis on images and text which sometimes clash, monochromatric "too flat" textures n lack of colours) are all being addressed. Some who called this out will be called trolls but the ones defending "old" metro will be left behind as MS itself changes.

Just have a look at the WP home screens from 2 years ago and even upto a year ago. Flat, dull monochromatic front screens, ugly tiles not approaching the vibrancy of even iOS homescreens, let alone Android. What IS metro, is it complete lack of colour as judged by start screen monochromatic look or extreme vibrancy given by picture background as shown in apps (Photos, Music Hubs etc). There were all these inconsistencies.

Have a look at the advertising and marketing once Nokia came in and with its latest Lumia lines (the 520, 720 etc). Goto their website and notice the STARK difference in how the start screen looks. They're now using vibrant colourful varied live tiles to more accurately demo the "alive" nature of the homescreen as in real life. Nokia is doing this to the point where they are pushing default MS and their own apps tiles away from the home screen in marketing (presumably because of their monochromatic tiles) and have put what can only be called utterly random tiles (in terms of functionality, Vogue? Xyz Saint??) but which are quite good to look at.

I personally have large photos tiles, pinned contacts, people tile and Nokia Music tile on my start screen and it looks the most active and vibrant homecreen compared to any other OS or platform, but out of the box by default, I cannot describe how ugly the neon blue tiles occupying my homescreen looked.

The biggest challenges in converting people to WP for me have been getting them to see how the homescreen can be customised to not look so ugly and to show them that is a first class app platform (i.e a "glorified app launcher" is precisely what many people seek)

Wrong. First of all, where are these 100's of millions of Facebook users sampling the WP app? There aren't anywhere near that number of WP users worldwide. The people who see this and other flagship apps are overwhelmingly those who have purchased a WP device. And presumably they purchased that device precisely because they prefer WP to Android or iOS. Do you really think the problem with the original FB or Twitter apps was about metro design language? It wasn't about poor performance or missing features?

The 100s of millions of users are Facebook's users. Users who will never give WP a shot if they don't find FB on WP to be a native comfortable full fledged experience. Crucially, here I mean native to THEIR expectation of FB from everywhere else. Not to WP. The 100s of millions who do come into contact with WP but do NOT give it a shot because they have read or heard or personally felt their apps are not yet first class experiences on this platform. I suspect you like most other enthusiasts have a OS>app notion. This is not what most people want, they indeed do want glorified app launchers. They literally use any phone or OS as a mere platform to get to the apps they want in order to accomplish the tasks they want. This is where the 'FB should be Metro' argument completely falls flat. FB should be whatever it requires to be the best and most comfortable experience for its users. There is no reason it should artificially conform to Metro design especially because if anything, Metro is simple and Facebook is anything but.

Another very important point to keep in mind is Android and iOS did not just forge a unique way out of zilch. WP did. Android and iOS use traditional home/desktop/icons/menus models that were established even prior by Symbian and Windows Mobile (or in a way by desktop OSes like Windows and OS X). So that particular way isn't just "a" way, its the default way. Its what people expect, know and are comfortable with.

Metro is radically new, different and as I have explained before, not necessarily better in ALL ways. Uniqueness and differentiation is only good when it is clearly better. That's business strategy 101 but people just run with the differentiation part forgetting the better part.

If I make you change your workflows WITHOUT demonstrating to you a clear and perceivable benefit, you will complain. Its only natural, you will only invest in relearning and familiarising when the value in it is apparent.

Metro's core apps and general system UI provides a very vibrant n beautiful interface especially for easy/llight UIs. However the reliance on background imagery to provide the vibrance, the large text as chrome, the generous spacing all fall down when you start getting into heavy apps. Can people imagine Metro first person shooters? The HUD in Metro text? Photoshop in Metro? That cluttered toolbar and palette with Metro amount of spacing? Horses for courses. Where Metro doesn't work, adapt the UI and adapt Metro to find a middle ground.

The new FB app does this adequately, if you look at the fine details, the edges are squared (not rounded like Android or iOS), the whole UI is flat without drop shadows and textures, there is no faux 3D, swiping to text heavy areas reveals consistency in fonts with Metro design. Metro is woven into this new FB app as opposed to the old FB app which was puking Metro right at you the moment you opened it. The previous app's only claim was "look I am metro, I am different, look at me, its all Metro". The new Facebook Beta is Metro in all the right places whilst maintaining consistency with FB's other properties (Which is the more important thing).

Another critical things that might help sort out what should and shouldn't be pure Metro: Anything thats small, utility, light, or infrequently used should follow OS design guideless to provide expected behaviour to user and ease transition. Such as Dialler, flashlight, Calculator etc etc

Anything that is heavy, UI intensive, primary app for many people with which they might have extensive prior experience or basically 'more important than OS apps" should optimise around their own workflows: examples of this would be FB, Whatsapp, Twitter, Gaming, Email, Video Conferencing for work.
 

Mad MilkMan

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I'd rather have a *less* Metro Facebook app that offers more functionality, than have a *busted* Metro Facebook app. This app is still in BETA as well.
 

Gurggles

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I think a bigger issue is that the hubs are becoming less and less important IMO. Wasn't the promise of WP a unified experience through the me & people hubs, & not having to open & close individual apps? Now since Skype has replaced IM the whole experience is disjointed, with the result being multiple notifications for IM messages from both Skype & messaging. The same could be said for Twitter there is built in integration but also Twitter apps, & if the apps aren't updated regularly people complain. So are the hubs/integration not being used, & if that's the case what is the big difference between WP & the others?

The hubs were never fleshed out to 3rd parties, only microsoft (and the stupid ATT bloat) were true hubs of the WP7 days. WP8 lets the user tailor the experience to their needs, that is why the start screen is different now. As for Facebook lacking a metro-feel, I say good ridiance because the old app was buggy (if you clicked a link and backed out it would send you to the top of the page that you were on). Yes it is less Metro but it is more Facebook, and if we want more users to join they need to feel a slight sense of home. If we don't then this will be the platform of Metro fans only, and WP will not succeed.

In the end remember its facebook, there will be a new look in 4 months and at that time we will have the same conversation all over again :p
 

rockstarzzz

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I'm no app developer but if it is possible, maybe they just want to get the "background" right. The foundation of the app, basic functionally etc working properly. Then when all that's good, they'll just slap on a metro styled theme :p

I highly doubt that sort of UI overhaul will come from Microsoft in their own app! :p
 

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