so MS finally talks and says nothing.

[spitothec]

If it's not broken, why is every WP7 user I know, and most people on this forum, drooling over a patch that gives us one added feature and a short list of bug fixes? We can disagree on this until we're both blue in the face, but as the phone sits, I consider it a glorified feature phone. For 2011, I can't justify calling this a premier smartphone. If you're happy with it, I'm happy for you.. I'm not sure why you're taking it personally.

I'm not sure where yer going by attacking my knowledge of the english language, and I'm also not really sure what it has to do with anything. I've already clarified in a previous post that when I say bug, I actually mean "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way". The word "bug" is just a little easier to type, so my apologies for being lazy. You really got me

I can't think of any features this phone has that aren't on other phones in a broad sense, but I got it for two main reasons - 1. Microsoft promised to roll out updates quickly to catch up with the competition, and 2. I love(d) the Zune subscription service.

I'm starting to think I need to put this in my sig - I've used BB, iOS, and Android for extended periods of time. WebOS aside, I'm just as aware as you are of their own OS issues, and I can't possibly see how you can consider any of them less stable or feature rich than WP7. If you're happy with having an underperforming OS with a lack of control over nearly anything that's missing basic features that other OS's have had for nearly a decade, then I'm not going to hate you for it.. I just don't get it. Honest question, what do you tell people who ask you about your phone and want an Android/iPhone comparison? For me, that's one of the hardest things about owning this phone.

I'm not sure why you think that the competition's update cycle is a load of crap, but you are more than welcome to google the patch history of the competition. I know that iOS is the most popular thing to compare to, and I believe they had 8+ update in their first 6 months.. which is about 8 more updates than I've got haha

I'm fully aware of how software updates roll out. I guess the only thing I really don't understand is how you find the situation we're in to be acceptable. I purchased my phone ins November, and I'll be lucky to have my first patch by May. If you're happy with that, I'm jealous because I can't seem to find any way to justify that as an acceptable timeframe to patch my "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way".

and I'm good on the quoting, I don't think this is getting published or graded

 

[Exomondo]

If it's not broken, why is every WP7 user I know, and most people on this forum, drooling over a patch that gives us one added feature and a short list of bug fixes?

Probably because they want said features and bug fixes. That in no way makes it 'broken'.

We can disagree on this until we're both blue in the face, but as the phone sits, I consider it a glorified feature phone. For 2011, I can't justify calling this a premier smartphone.

And that's up to you, it's still not 'broken'.

If you're happy with it, I'm happy for you.. I'm not sure why you're taking it personally.

How could i possibly be 'taking it personally'?

I'm not sure where yer going by attacking my knowledge of the english language, and I'm also not really sure what it has to do with anything.

Using words incorrectly to describe a situation means your description of that situation is incorrect so of course that has everything to do with your communication.

I've already clarified in a previous post that when I say bug, I actually mean "numerous software glitches, design flaws, blatant oversights, poor application management, a disregard for user experience, and an unfinished operating product in nearly every way". The word "bug" is just a little easier to type, so my apologies for being lazy. You really got me

And 'feature requests' or hardware-specific issues don't fit into that, and if they did it wouldn't make any sense since those aren't anything to do with the OS or company being 'broken'.

I can't think of any features this phone has that aren't on other phones in a broad sense, but I got it for two main reasons - 1. Microsoft promised to roll out updates quickly to catch up with the competition, and 2. I love(d) the Zune subscription service.

Well there you go, Zune subscription, there's also Office and XBL (which is why i got it). Also i really like bing maps.

I'm starting to think I need to put this in my sig - I've used BB, iOS, and Android for extended periods of time. WebOS aside, I'm just as aware as you are of their own OS issues, and I can't possibly see how you can consider any of them less stable or feature rich than WP7.

Well im glad i don't have to do periodic battery pulls (like the BB), iOS (my ipad, my old iphone 3g, wife's iphone4) has no less crashes than wp7 (on my Omnia7) nor does Android and Android suffers from a lot of laggy scrolling and zooming issues even on the Nexus One and galaxy tab (haven't tried the S) that my omnia7 doesn't.

If you're happy with having an underperforming OS

But it isn't 'underperforming' (assuming you mean in terms of performance).

with a lack of control over nearly anything

What do you want/need control over?

that's missing basic features that other OS's have had for nearly a decade, then I'm not going to hate you for it.. I just don't get it.

because i don't need copy/paste or multitasking, yes i'd like to have them and im glad they are being added but if i needed them then WP7 would have been the wrong choice.

Honest question, what do you tell people who ask you about your phone and want an Android/iPhone comparison? For me, that's one of the hardest things about owning this phone.

I bought it because of its smoothness (over Android), its UI, its Office support, its XBL integration and its Zune functionality. If i needed copy/paste or multitasking i wouldn't have bought it, i like that it will get them in the future but i wouldn't have bought a device that lacks features that i need on the hope they will be added in future.

I'm not sure why you think that the competition's update cycle is a load of crap, but you are more than welcome to google the patch history of the competition. I know that iOS is the most popular thing to compare to, and I believe they had 8+ update in their first 6 months.. which is about 8 more updates than I've got haha

Read the description that i wrote below regarding the platforms, for iOS (and BB to a degree) it's easy, for every other platform it's difficult if they want to avoid fragmentation.

I'm fully aware of how software updates roll out.

Then why is it so difficult for you - in knowing they want to avoid fragmentation - to understand that when they have problems with a 3rd party manufacturer that this is going to take time to resolve?

I guess the only thing I really don't understand is how you find the situation we're in to be acceptable.

Because, like i said, i bought it based on it having what i needed rather than hoping what i needed would be added later. Same reason i didn't get the original iphone, i waited until it had the features i needed.

and I'm good on the quoting, I don't think this is getting published or graded

Are you sure? because you're doing it wrong.

TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.

 

[Averry]

TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.

Here's a number of devices that have changed in the time I've owned them through updates...sometimes drastically.


PS3
XBox360 (quite honestly...a Microsoft product...and the most dynamic shift...even if it was slower..but it was up against the PS3 and Wii after all)
HTC Droid Incredible
HTC Droid Eris
Zune HD/Zune Software

List of Popular Devices that have changed, and sometimes Drastically in a 1 to 2 year span.
All of the iPod touch models.
All of the iPhone Models.
All of Motorola's Android phones (except the most recent models)
Some of Samsung's Galaxy phones
Most of HTC's Android phones in the last year.


Most consumers.....are probably expecting software overhauls on their devices anymore. So don't try to take some sort of false high road.

 

[Exomondo]

Here's a number of devices that have changed in the time I've owned them through updates...sometimes drastically.

Of course, i didn't say they didn't, nor am i suggesting WP7 won't in the future. I mean exactly what i wrote.

Most consumers.....are probably expecting software overhauls on their devices anymore. So don't try to take some sort of false high road.

I agree, but most consumers don't buy something that lacks necessary features until those features have been implemented.
How is it a 'false high road'? It's simply basic logic that if you need a feature you don't buy the device that doesn't have said feature.

 

[spitothec]

TBH i think im beginning to understand the issue, you bought your phone on the idea that it would become what you wanted it to be in the future - since your list of grievances was mostly feature requests - whereas i bought it the same way i buy all devices, for what it is when i buy it.
I also understand you feel MS has wronged you but unforeseeable problems come with the territory.

I bought the device because Microsoft sold it as a platform they were working towards making competitive, and expecting a phone that wasn't quite caught up. I bought it because I was SUPER excited about what the phone was capable of. My problem is that I'm STILL super excited about what the phone is capable of, and I'm upset because I'm not seeing any of it's potential being used. I see a beautiful, amazing, snappy OS sitting here on my 5 month old phone with the same issues, bugs, and lack of promised features that it's had since last year. It's getting hard for me to keep telling myself that MS is going to fix it, when every other OS is being updated and patched while we sit here stagnant.

I'm glad yer happy with yer phone, I really am, but when Microsoft told me they would be aggressively rolling out updates and adding features, like a fool, I believed them. This has not been the case, and I find it to be unacceptable. I'd be a lot easier on MS if they'd man up and admit that they bit off more than they could chew, and it's going to take years for them to catch up with the rest of the market, yet they continue to tell us that updating and adding features is their priority, while their actions show the opposite.

They told us they have set standards for hardware and firmware so that we don't have fragmentation issues like Android, to make updates faster and easier, and it would help them roll out company-wide updates on an quick, efficient schedule. It turns out that their plan has backfired and this non-fragmented, multi-platform, multi-carrier update process is, in my opinion, the worst of each all rolled up into one. We're not fragmented, because none of us have been updated. We're not all getting update at the same time because we're not getting updates. I don't think MS saw it ending up this way, I sure didn't, but now that it's here and we're dealing with it, no one seems to be trying to figure out how to fix it for future patches. It would absolutely not surprise me in the least if I don't get NoDo on my phone until the end of Q3, and it's a terrifying thought. It's entirely up to AT&T at this point, but it's entirely possible that I could go nearly a full year without a single bug fix or feature added to my phone... and I shouldn't even need to say how long it could take for Mango to actually show up on my phone.

Is it too much to ask for Microsoft to hold up the commitments they make, are honest with us when they screw up, and not lie to us about what's going to happen in the future? In fact, I'd almost rather them take the Apple road and leave us in the dark. At least that way they're not lying to us.

Trust me, I respect yer opinion, I just have a different one. I wish I could be as optimistic and as patient as you.

 

[Exomondo]

I bought the device because Microsoft sold it as a platform they were working towards making competitive, and expecting a phone that wasn't quite caught up. I bought it because I was SUPER excited about what the phone was capable of. My problem is that I'm STILL super excited about what the phone is capable of, and I'm upset because I'm not seeing any of it's potential being used.

Well hopefully they follow through and this first update is an isolated incident simply because it's the 'first'.

I'm glad yer happy with yer phone, I really am, but when Microsoft told me they would be aggressively rolling out updates and adding features, like a fool, I believed them. This has not been the case, and I find it to be unacceptable.

I suppose you were sold on a promise, i can understand that's frustrating, it would be good if they were a little more transparent on 'why' this is all taking so long.

They told us they have set standards for hardware and firmware so that we don't have fragmentation issues like Android, to make updates faster and easier, and it would help them roll out company-wide updates on an quick, efficient schedule. It turns out that their plan has backfired and this non-fragmented, multi-platform, multi-carrier update process is, in my opinion, the worst of each all rolled up into one.

I hope it's just teething issues and the update process gets smoother, we've seen a major hiccup in the very first update so hopefully that was the only cause for the delay. At least the idea is that once updates are rolled out they are available to everyone and not just those who have capable devices or accommodating manufacturers.

Is it too much to ask for Microsoft to hold up the commitments they make, are honest with us when they screw up, and not lie to us about what's going to happen in the future? In fact, I'd almost rather them take the Apple road and leave us in the dark. At least that way they're not lying to us.

Yeah that is a tough one, on one hand it's nice to know what they're working on but on the other hand its great to see something announced and almost immediately (within a month or 2) available.

 

[spitothec]

If any of you have a few minutes, I think this is probably worth a read - (don't know how I missed it )

The carriers are not your customers: the Windows Phone 7 update mess

 

[Luisraul924]

If any of you have a few minutes, I think this is probably worth a read - (don't know how I missed it )

The carriers are not your customers: the Windows Phone 7 update mess

Yeah I remember reading that. It is too true. If and ONLY IF Android gets hardware acceleration (very highly extremely unlikely) for rich, smooth UI interaction (like WP7 and iOS) will i switch back. My faith in Microsoft is starting to fade to black.

 

[nodoisnodont]

As a long time user and supporter of Microsoft, I have given up hope that Microsoft can successfully enter the mobile market. They had a chance considering RIM and it's failures, Nokia (with or without MS deal would have failed) and Palm going nowhere. They could have entered third with a bright future - instead, their mobile OS needs alot of work and NoDo being a classic example of yet another Redmond failure. I switched to ATT from Verizon for the Focus on launch day and my wife received the iPhone. I am jealous every day - between the myrid of options, applications, settings, etc when comparing to WP7. Why is it that I cannot set a three hour notification on a calendar event (either 1 hour or 18 hour) nor I can't reschedule an all day even on consecutive days?!? Simple things cannot be done. The Android recently fixed a major problem with their marketplace - using Amazon's sevice to browse and display applications.

Visual Studio and several apps are the only things that Microsoft continues to do right (for the most part). My faith of MS is nearly gone and gone forever in all aspects of daily use and in business situations.

 

[Averry]

Of course, i didn't say they didn't, nor am i suggesting WP7 won't in the future. I mean exactly what i wrote.



I agree, but most consumers don't buy something that lacks necessary features until those features have been implemented.
How is it a 'false high road'? It's simply basic logic that if you need a feature you don't buy the device that doesn't have said feature.

When have I ever said I NEED any of those.

This is 2011. If you'r satisfied with paying $600 for a device and getting left in the dark, then be my guest.

I really don't think you get it.

What if Microsoft released the Xbox 360...and IMPLIED that it would get Halo 3...but then just......never......released it.

You'd be totally oooooookey.doke.happy.just.fine with that? I mean assuming you were a Halo fan. And to make matters as close to your example as possible...they never ever released any games at all from November 2005 and on. I mean...in your example.....somebody should have no ability to show any displeasure.

Nevermind that you just gave Microsoft $400 with the understanding that your purchase would gain value over time...........cause you shouldn't have bought it if it didn't have what you needed.

 

[Exomondo]

When have I ever said I NEED any of those.

Ok so the device fits your needs then?

This is 2011. If you'r satisfied with paying $600 for a device and getting left in the dark, then be my guest.

I'm not left in the dark at all, the pre-nodo update had issues (they communicated that) which delayed the nodo update.

What if Microsoft released the Xbox 360...and IMPLIED that it would get Halo 3...but then just......never......released it.

You'd be totally oooooookey.doke.happy.just.fine with that? I mean assuming you were a Halo fan. And to make matters as close to your example as possible...they never ever released any games at all from November 2005 and on.

Let's make actually close to my example instead of your flawed analogy (given that games on the 360 are directly comparable to games on WP7). Since we're talking updates to WP7 OS how about comparing it to XBox360 Dashboard updates, now that would be a direct comparison, and it wouldn't have bothered me if they didn't update the OS, it was already as capable as it needed to be, i didn't buy it because i wanted netflix and last.fm in the future, they were just value-adds.

cause you shouldn't have bought it if it didn't have what you needed.

It had everything i needed, the ability to play games.

 

[kalldrexx]

Who pays $600 for a phone these days, at least inthe US? I paid $100, which is less than my other options if I went with Android.

We get it, you guys feel like MS stabbed you in th back, give it a rest.

*edit* Also, if you seriously have that many issues with the phone, even if the phone was updated as much as iOS is it won't live up to your standard for at least a year and a half. All of those bullet points you keep mentioning aren't trivial updates (just look at the pace and how things are added to iOS). Give it up and find another device, no amount of updates are going to make you happy, because it's unfeasible to update all of that in a year (even if you were running the update schedule)

 

[Luisraul924]

Who pays $600 for a phone these days, at least inthe US? I paid $100, which is less than my other options if I went with Android.

We get it, you guys feel like MS stabbed you in th back, give it a rest.

*edit* Also, if you seriously have that many issues with the phone, even if the phone was updated as much as iOS is it won't live up to your standard for at least a year and a half. All of those bullet points you keep mentioning aren't trivial updates (just look at the pace and how things are added to iOS). Give it up and find another device, no amount of updates are going to make you happy, because it's unfeasible to update all of that in a year (even if you were running the update schedule)

I'm pretty sure the guy meant unsubsidized devices.

 

[kalldrexx]

Yeah but anyone who pays an unsubsidized price is asking for hurt. If you really must have a device, get it from ebay for $200 or go to Verizon with a one year contract. I wish I had enough money in the bank to justify paying over $200 for a cell phone in less than 2 years

 

[Luisraul924]

Yeah but anyone who pays an unsubsidized price is asking for hurt. If you really must have a device, get it from ebay for $200 or go to Verizon with a one year contract. I wish I had enough money in the bank to justify paying over $200 for a cell phone in less than 2 years

Well some people dont feel like paying $120/mo. for a smartphone its the main reason I switched from them to T-Mobile. Another reason is; people just dont like contracts, if it fit my budget to be able to buy an unsubsidized smartphone, believe me I would. Sometimes things come up and you might have to miss a payment or two (I'm not exactly the richest guy in the world, college student+just-above-minimum-wage-job= tight, tight budget). So on a monthly basis plan I can cancel service if absolutely necessary to save a bit of cash to do what I need to do. I know they have the "deactivate service" option but the bastards still expect you to pay for service your not really using.

 

[spitothec]

@kalldrexx I'm not sure how else to put this. its not the bugs that bother me, its the lack of anything resembling initiative to fix them. I'm not upset because my phone isn't functioning properly, I'm upset because they are not showing me that they have any urgency in correcting it. this is the os I want and the os I love. i just want the people that built it to properly support it, and be honest with all of us about its past, present, and future.

this thread was never meant to be about the phone, but the pisspoor effort of ms to grow or even maintain it. their support has and continues to be setting the standard for industry worst, and them lying to us on top of that isn't exactly putting a smile on my face.

I'm not and never will expect a perfect phone from any company. all I to expect is for the company to at least attempt to make a perfect phone. right now, that's the difference between ms and Apple.

I hope this cleared up some of the confusion.

edit: as for yer "give it a rest" comment, I don't think anyone is forcing you to read and reply to this thread? lol

 

[Luisraul924]

@kalldrexx I'm not sure how else to put this. its not the bugs that bother me, its the lack of anything resembling initiative to fix them. I'm not upset because my phone isn't functioning properly, I'm upset because they are not showing me that they have any urgency in correcting it. this is the os I want and the os I love. i just want the people that built it to properly support it, and be honest with all of us about its past, present, and future.

this thread was never meant to be about the phone, but the pisspoor effort of ms to grow or even maintain it. their support has and continues to be setting the standard for industry worst, and them lying to us on top of that isn't exactly putting a smile on my face.

I hope this cleared up some of the confusion.

I think I ragged on mgarcia the most, but as of now, after reading the articles of o2 NoDo in early April and Deutsche Telekom late April, I fully agree with mgarcia. As a matter a fact, I fear that this platform is now doomed, if people are truly ditching windows phones like I read somewhere then yes this update bull**** is only adding insult to injury. I really really like windows phone 7 :/

 

[wheelerk]

I think I ragged on mgarcia the most, but as of now, after reading the articles of o2 NoDo in early April and Deutsche Telekom late April, I fully agree with mgarcia. As a matter a fact, I fear that this platform is now doomed, if people are truly ditching windows phones like I read somewhere then yes this update bull**** is only adding insult to injury. I really really like windows phone 7 :/

Weakling!!!

 

[Pete C]

I don't understand...how do you "ditch" your windows phone?? 99% of you are in a 2-year contract, most people are stuck with the phone. Once you choose a platform, you are stuck with it for a while so might as well make the best. The phone is certainly not bad enough to drop loads of $$$ to get a new phone without a discount.

Either way, MS can only take some of the blame. They do not have the clout that Apple had to basically strong-arm AT&T into how the update process will work. They could dangle the iPhone in front of any carrier and tell them how its going to be. How would MS ever pull that off being an underdog in this market and needing to get on every carrier they can?

 

[Averry]

One of two things will happen.


Either Microsoft will start releasing legitimate updates on a timely and competitive manner, or they won't, and they'll just limp along in another failed consumer market attempt.