So, who's gonna get a Surface Pro 3?

[Reflexx]

No, argument from authority also applies to one claiming to be an expert on the subject matter and thus their opinion should be taken as factually correct.

From Wiki definition:
The argument from authority can take several forms. As a syllogism, the argument has the following basic structure:

A says P about subject matter S.
A should be trusted about subject matter S.
Therefore, P is correct.

Artists says that N-trig sucks.
Artists should be trusted on subject matter related to digital art.
Therefore, Artists are correct to say N-trig sucks.

This is classic argument from authority.

But that's not what most artists here are saying.

A more honest description would be:
Artists says that N-trig has been inferior in the past.
Artists should be trusted on subject matter related to digital art.
Therefore, Artists are correct to say that it's up to N-trig to prove they are better now before we believe them.

This is completely false. Again see my musician example regarding music compression or human biology of hearing. Even a person using tools of trade everyday may not know how their tools work. A digital artist may be using their Wacom digitizers everyday, but damn if they know how the actual electronics is calculating the cursor position or the pressure applied is communicated via the driver and API level better than the engineers who made and programmed it, in fact I would bet they won't know anything about it.

Only of subject matter of actual relevance. Just like I wouldn't put much trust a musician to tell me about how human ear evolution works or how signal processing works, I also don't automatically put faith in the artists telling me that they can "feel" the difference in 256 levels vs 1024 levels of very small pressure exerted on a tiny pixel because I know humans are actually very much prone to bias and errors and our senses are easily fooled by all sorts of tricks or even emotional state of mind.
Matters which I would automatically have more trust an artist on? Things such as colour coordination, how to draw anatomically correct human prosture, that sort of thing. But hell I would automatically listen to artists tell me about how they can feel the "wrongs" of electronics (I'm an engineer BTW, but then I would be arguing from authority too)

We don't claim to feel every level of pressure sensitivity. We claim that when we've tried low pressure sensitive products in the past they were inferior to the current high pressure sensitive products.

Because of that, we won't buy in to the claim that this current product is better until it's proven.

I don't mind if they are actually skeptical, but that is not what's happening. Go to this forum and look for the thread titled "N-triq over Wacom kills the Pro 3 for me. " Is that someone expressing skepticism? NO. He made the conclusion before having hands-on experience. And there are many of these people in EVERY SINGLE Surface thread all over the internet. We are calling out these people for being unreasonable.

And if you actually read the thread you'd see that his position isn't as hard liked as the thread title seems.

Again, they are not being skeptical when they flat out declare it DOA simply because it is N-trig.

Then take it up with those individuals. Or preface it by saying, "The people who are saying blah blah blah are unreasonable."

And what group would we be in?

Maybe I'd be able to think of one more easily if I liked to generalize and paint people into little groups.

Again, the few but also extremely vocal ones are giving the reasonable ones a bad image.

Why? Because we share similar professions?

You can't fault people for thinking artists are being unreasonable when the reasonable ones refuse to speak out and let the vocal ones speak so loudly and so unreasonably about something they haven't even tried by already pronounced DOA.

Actually, I can fault people for generalizing like that.

 

[Narr]

I'm looking to get a Pro 3 but I'll not be pre-ordering it as then I'll have to wait 3months for the device. I'm really surprised that Microsoft haven't sort out their supply chain to the extent they can't supply more than 2 markets in the first quarter of the Pro going on sale.

 

[jbaylon]

Yeah. Well I hope so. I want an i5, 128G one, but I'll have trouble justifying the purchase to myself. Never owned a tablet, have a 2 year old HP laptop I'm really happy with, but a few months ago I started looking around at the huge pile of notebooks and papers swirling around my desk. I've filled like 10 notebooks since starting grad school, and every time someone swings by my desk and asks a question, I grope around for the nearest napkin or scrap paper to scribble a semi-legible diagram or equation. Not to mention all the times I scribble a few equations down to figure out problems and whatnot.

Anyways, if this thing can actually take notes fluidly and neatly, I'm in. I just want confirmation that the writing experience is precise/accurate/fast enough for legit note taking.

Question: does anyone know if the SP3 has a thing that can read handwritten equations and convert them to the kind of thing you'd find in MS Word? That'd be sick. I read that Samsung has a thing that does that, but the device didn't look nearly as appealing overall.

 

[mozman68]

Really glad I didn't do a good job of convincing my company to get an SP2 for me (not because of the machine, but because of 8.1)....I'm planning on buying this one myslef.

 

[houkoholic]

But that's not what most artists here are saying.

A more honest description would be:
Artists says that N-trig has been inferior in the past.
Artists should be trusted on subject matter related to digital art.
Therefore, Artists are correct to say that it's up to N-trig to prove they are better now before we believe them.

Not this guy.

Or this guy

Or this guy (and similar in the thread)

These aren't comments with a "wait and see" attitude. It's flat out refusal to try. Like I said before, you literally find one of these guys in every Surface Pro 3 threads all over the internet, and it IS damn annoying.

And if you actually read the thread you'd see that his position isn't as hard liked as the thread title seems.

But I did - let's find some quotes from that thread shall we:

Welcome to the world of Microsoft Logic, the self-destructive planning that has plagued this company since the dawn of the iPhone. Let's totally ignore the freakin' realities of the market and push something that makes sense to NO ONE.

That doesn't read like someone with an open mind.

Second, N-triq is limited to 256lvl's of pressure sensitivity. This KILLS it for me. I used a cheap digitizer before with 256, and its HORRIBLE. Its a huge downgrade from the Pro-2's 1024!

This is also another one jumping to conclusion before having actually test that particular pen.

Again, you in particular may not belong to this group, but the vocal artists are certainly giving you guys a bad image.

Then take it up with those individuals. Or preface it by saying, "The people who are saying blah blah blah are unreasonable."

I did - notice I was referring to people who say "no wacom is deal killer" (with exaggeration/sarcasm added) . You are the only one being antsy and defensive.

Actually, I can fault people for generalizing like that.

Again, if you let the vocal people represent you, you can't fault others for generalizing.

 

[anon(5445874)]

Not this guy.

Or this guy

Or this guy (and similar in the thread)

These aren't comments with a "wait and see" attitude. It's flat out refusal to try. Like I said before, you literally find one of these guys in every Surface Pro 3 threads all over the internet, and it IS damn annoying.



But I did - let's find some quotes from that thread shall we:

Welcome to the world of Microsoft Logic, the self-destructive planning that has plagued this company since the dawn of the iPhone. Let's totally ignore the freakin' realities of the market and push something that makes sense to NO ONE.

That doesn't read like someone with an open mind.

Second, N-triq is limited to 256lvl's of pressure sensitivity. This KILLS it for me. I used a cheap digitizer before with 256, and its HORRIBLE. Its a huge downgrade from the Pro-2's 1024!

This is also another one jumping to conclusion before having actually test that particular pen.

Again, you in particular may not belong to this group, but the vocal artists are certainly giving you guys a bad image.



I did - notice I was referring to people who say "no wacom is deal killer". You are the only one being antsy.



Again, if you let the vocal people represent you, you can't fault others for generalizing.

By the way, that person claiming to have used a cheep digitizer with 256 levels before is being kind of narrow minded. I've used cheep 1920x1080 monitors before too, and I've used other monitors with the exact same amount of pixels and it was a lot better. Just saying, you can't always compare the same specs. But these kinds of people don't want to take a wait and see approach, they just want to slam Microsoft for even existing.

 

[Zvjer]

I'm getting that 128GB version + keyboard as soon as it hits the shelves. 256GB is a bit out of my budget although I'm a bit afraid that 4GB RAM may not be enough sometimes if you use it as your ONLY device.

 

[wiederman]

Just bit the bullet and preordered the i7 256 with education discount... my wife is going to murder me..... first because I made this huge purchase... then cause she will realize that she will inherit my AMAZING Surface Pro 3

 

[Reflexx]

Just bit the bullet and preordered the i7 256 with education discount... my wife is going to murder me..... first because I made this huge purchase... then cause she will realize that she will inherit my AMAZING Surface Pro 3

Quick! Change your will! It's your only chance for survival.

 

[maflynn]

I threw my pre-order in. I was wanting the SP2 and kind of hoping for a price cut (that may still occur) but given the improvements in the SP3, It was worth it. Now of course is the long and painful waiting period between pre-ordering and receiving it. :grin:

I was surprised at how quickly my laptop sold - too quick, now I have to survive on my old 13" MBP until I get this bad boy

 

[McHendry]

I wanna...Indoneisia is Waiting For Surface3.

 

[McHendry]

I wanna surface 3.
Change my Laptop tobe a PC and Tablet.
Really want it.

 

[McHendry]

Want this thing to Help Me when Presentation in Campuss.
Just A little Hope

 

[McHendry]

Cant imagine if i have surface 3.

 

[GraceFA60]

I think the sp3 is perfect for me as a real estate agent. I'll buy the i7 with 8G ram.

 

[j7cux51]

can it be delivered in Russia?

 

[j7cux51]

i really hope it can

 

[j7cux51]

cause i want it)

 

[Charliejkv]

It would be nice to win Surface 3

 

[Charliejkv]

Nice tablet to replace my laptop