This Surface Laptop is the First Overpriced Device With a Surface Branding

[someoneinwa]

I thought that was the only odd spec decision given the attention they paid at the event to college students and pitching the Surface Laptop to them. It has been a while since I graduated, but we used to record lectures now and then. If students still do that, laptop rear cameras are a natural. If that isn't happening so much anymore because lectures are online or otherwise archived, then the rear camera isn't so important on this device.

 

[anthonyng]

I thought that was the only odd spec decision given the attention they paid at the event to college students and pitching the Surface Laptop to them. It has been a while since I graduated, but we used to record lectures now and then. If students still do that, laptop rear cameras are a natural. If that isn't happening so much anymore because lectures are online or otherwise archived, then the rear camera isn't so important on this device.

It would seem cumbersome with a laptop... these days, for work, in meetings, I use office lens on my phone to send whiteboard/presentation caps to the same notebook I'm taking notes on...

I guess fully recording a lecture would be easier from a laptop with rear camera! But man, going through a whole lecture again would kill me lol

 

[MrElectrifyer]

Wow. Debbie Downer is here. First, all Surface devices are premium priced. Not one has ever been released without someone on Windows Central complaining it was overpriced and/or underspeced.

First off, money isn't the problem here, it's about what it offers to justify that price tag. The Surface line of products have always offered advanced functionality to make that price tag easy to justify compared to the cheaper or similar priced OEM competition. If they wanted to merely offer a classic Laptop design, it should have offered more ports (at least an additional USB Type C Thunderbolt 3 port and a full SD Card read for storage expansion) and possibly take it further with a discrete GPU like the Surface Book. But no, they simply scrapped the advantages of the similar priced Surface Pro and kept the same price tag.

To take your specific points: regarding touch, all Surface devices are touch. Touch on a laptop isn't new and a Surface without touch would be a very radical change.

Touch on a Laptop isn't new, but it has always been merely a half-assed gimmick if the device can't be converted to the Tablet form-factor to take full advantage of it. When you try using it for a continuous touch experience, a touchscreen laptop makes your arms fatigue and has terrible ergonomics compared to the tablet form-factor offered by the Surface Pro. Seriously, let me see you doing this or this on a Laptop, touchscreen-equipped or not.

I really don't want to see anymore people waving laptops or tablets around as cameras

It's just saddening how some silly folks have made people blind to the productivity benefits of a rear camera on a Tablet (not a Laptop). A rear camera on a Tablet enables the following:

- Scanning notes/documents and instantly annotating on them (via OneNote with Office Lens, https://is.gd/IaxXHM )

- Capturing of physical objects and adding them to your ongoing 3D model (that's what 3D Capture is to enabled)

- Taking a picture of something and adding further explanation to the photo via Windows Ink before sending it off (that's best off on a phone like the Samsung Note series, but it's also useful on Tablets)

Panay had promised Surface customers that 4th gen devices would work with 3rd gen peripherals and vice versa. I guess they decided that promise was more important than needing to add a USB C.

First off, this isn't a 4th gen device dude, it's a first gen, so that promise doesn't even apply anymore, it has long been fulfilled by the Surface Pro 4. Second off, you talk as if USB Type C needs to replace the Surface connect port, guess what dude, they can all co-exist on the same device, OEMs have long been offering such devices. Finally, if it's on a Surface, I'd expect the USB Type C port to be fully Thunderbolt 3 capable, enabling the use of eGPUs when docked. That's the high-end application of USB Type C and frankly, it should be on any "premium" priced device in 2017, otherwise, it's simply an overpriced joke compared to the competition ( https://is.gd/JqZnjr ).

Also, I really like the mag safe connection used by Surface Connect. Apple got tons of grief recently for eliminating that feature on the new Macs.

I really love it on my Surface Pro 2 as well, that's the major reason why I don't want a Thunderbolt 3 USB Type C port replacing the Surface Connect port. Instead, it should simply replace the Mini DisplayPort on the Surface Pro 4 and I'd proudly upgrade my Surface Pro 2 to such premium, yet great bang for buck device.

 

[MrElectrifyer]

I actually know a lot of people who don't like using Surface simply because they aren't laptops. They want to be able to actually use them on their laps more easily without getting a kickstand just right to have it get knocked out of place and fall over.

I don't mind using my Surface on my lap, but I get why some people don't like it. People want a device that best suits how they will use it, and for many people a traditional laptop fills that need much better than a Surface tablet will.

I understand that, but for the 66% drop in versatility (mono Laptop vs 3-in-1), they should have significantly made up for that in performance and ports, just like the OEM competition. If they wanted to live the lower price margin for the OEMs, they could have simply offered only the i7 variant.

To make it clear, nothing wrong with offering a Surface mono Laptop, point is, it shouldn't be merely high priced for the logo. That's only expected from crapple, who's synonymous with separating fools from their money. Money isn't the problem here, bang for buck compared to the competition is what's significantly off with this new Surface.

 

[Steve78UK]

We are not paying for the Surface logo! We're paying for the premium construction, exceptional screen (most people underestimate just how important this component is), fast storage and the fact that Microsoft will provide solid driver support for years.

And I am someone who has been using Macs alongside my Windows machines for years. Macs have always been superior products (consistently the best notebooks for years and years), but it's good to see Surface catching them up fast when it comes to build quality.

 

[mtf1380]

@MrElectrifyer, you make some very, very excellent, and valid points.

That said, I don't believe MS is intending this laptop to replace anything in its line-up, but as an 'introduction' to a niche product category. This 1st generation laptop may not be appropriate for you (nor many others), but its next successor may be? and if this laptop was to be any help to you, it may be in the form of an ADDITION to your Surface Pro, not its replacement (I know that would be its only use for me, in unison with a Pro, or at least a 950XL).

All that said, I am quite sure that this laptop will be welcomed, for various reasons, to a great many people, both as a compliment to their current bag of tools; as well as a stand alone for the person that want a great laptop without all the bells and whistles that THEY may not need.

Regardless, I am happy to see MS going down this path, and bringing new product to the market, for they will only get better (i.e. the first Surface Pro vs. Surface Pro 4

 

[MrElectrifyer]

We are not paying for the Surface logo! We're paying for the premium construction, exceptional screen (most people underestimate just how important this component is), fast storage and the fact that Microsoft will provide solid driver support for years.

The Surface Pro 4 has long offered all of the above, even a higher screen resolution (funny how they increased the screen size and gimped the resolution), yet it was never overpriced compared to the competition.

Macs have always been superior products (consistently the best notebooks for years and years)

Lol, nice joke. Them donglebooks have long been left behind in the dust by the Surface Pro/Book in terms of build quality, performance and versatility. Nothing objectively superior about them, besides their usual overpriced price tag...

 

[MrElectrifyer]

That said, I don't believe MS is intending this laptop to replace anything in its line-up, but as an 'introduction' to a niche product category. This 1st generation laptop may not be appropriate for you (nor many others), but its next successor may be? and if this laptop was to be any help to you, it may be in the form of an ADDITION to your Surface Pro, not its replacement (I know that would be its only use for me, in unison with a Pro, or at least a 950XL).

All that said, I am quite sure that this laptop will be welcomed, for various reasons, to a great many people, both as a compliment to their current bag of tools; as well as a stand alone for the person that want a great laptop without all the bells and whistles that THEY may not need.

Regardless, I am happy to see MS going down this path, and bringing new product to the market, for they will only get better (i.e. the first Surface Pro vs. Surface Pro 4

Yeah, I guess the second gen might be a lot more reasonably priced. In the end, I wasn't going to buy it even if it were reasonably priced (mono-form-factor PCs have long been a thing of the past since I got my Surface Pro). But as it is now, this is first Surface device I wouldn't dare recommend to a friend, not even an enemy.

 

[davidsunsbk]

I guess since MS might be announcing SP5 in the end of this month, it would definitely use the same display technology as Surface laptop.

 

[davidsunsbk]

Not just look. But also lightweight - a very practical consideration when purchasing a laptop. I would not use a cheap but heavy laptop.

Overpriced? Can you suggest a similar, cheaper laptop with similar spec, and most importantly, a light and thin one? We should realize that the price includes the premium build quality.

There are quite a few options from hp and acer with similar price tag as surface laptop, and they are not targeting the education market. So yes, I think Surface Laptop is overpriced, for "education".

 

[MrElectrifyer]

I guess since MS might be announcing SP5 in the end of this month, it would definitely use the same display technology as Surface laptop.

What exactly is "improved" in the Surface Laptop's display compared to the Surface Pro 4? If you look at Microsoft's own Compare Surface Devices table, you'll see that it's actually a lower resolution and less sharp pixel sense display despite it being bigger. 2256x1504 [201 PPI] on Surface Laptop vs 2736x1824 [267 PPI] on Surface Pro 4.

 

[someoneinwa]

If they wanted to merely offer a classic Laptop design, it should have offered more ports (at least an additional USB Type C Thunderbolt 3 port and a full SD Card read for storage expansion) and possibly take it further with a discrete GPU like the Surface Book.

You want them to make another Surface Book, just one that doesn't detach. I can't think of a reason they would do that.

Touch on a Laptop isn't new, but it has always been merely a half-assed gimmick if the device can't be converted to the Tablet form-factor to take full advantage of it.

Ok. That's your opinion. I disagree.

It's just saddening how some silly folks have made people blind to the productivity benefits of a rear camera on a Tablet (not a Laptop).

This is quite a leap. Not putting a rear camera on its first classic laptop device (a decision I questioned myself) does not mean Microsoft will stop putting them on tablets and its detachable laptop.

First off, this isn't a 4th gen device dude, it's a first gen, so that promise doesn't even apply anymore, it has long been fulfilled by the Surface Pro 4.

Not at all. Surface Pro 4 was the first Surface device of the 4th generation of Surface devices. That's why Surface Book, the Performance Base and now the laptop have all been compatible with the current generation of peripherals. Just because this is the first laptop doesn't mean it is a first generation device, it is part of the 4th generation of Surface products, although it is an evolution in that generation as it is using aluminum rather than magnesium for its case.

As for USB C: It's time is coming but the evolution is moving far slower than some users want. I get that and nothing would make me happier than to see the death of the damnable mini A port. Microsoft could certainly have put a USB C port on the laptop, but they would not have done it in place of either the Surface Connect or the mini Display Port because of that commitment to generational compatibility. It would have been an additional port. That would have been OK by me, but I think there was another reason they chose not to do it. Microsoft wants to make quality hardware and innovate in design and they do, but they also want to leave lots of space for the OEMs. Creating a premium laptop without USB C leaves space in the market for OEMs to occupy with a similar device with more future proofing.

 

[Tsang Fai]

There are quite a few options from hp and acer with similar price tag as surface laptop, and they are not targeting the education market. So yes, I think Surface Laptop is overpriced, for "education".

So you have stated the fact there exists similar laptops in the market with similar price tag.

Your main point is Surface Laptop should not be targeted at students - but it doesn't mean it is overpriced.

You should better rephrase what you said - "Surface Laptop is expensive for students" instead of "overpriced".

In fact it is not the students buying the devices, it is their parents. If they come from a rich family, Surface Laptop is not expensive at all. Many parents buy Macbooks for their children just for web browsing & skype.... and they just don't care how much the devices cost.

 

[raqball]

Anyone who has ever spent 1.3 seconds on a college campus knows that Macbook Air ($1000) and Macbook Pro ($1400) dominate the scene... They are everywhere!

Will the Surface Laptop bite into that market? Maybe...

 

[MrElectrifyer]

You want them to make another Surface Book, just one that doesn't detach. I can't think of a reason they would do that.

That's pretty much what this Surface Laptop is, just even worse in terms of ports, display quality, and performance. Yet here you are defending it...such irony.

Ok. That's your opinion. I disagree.

Nothing subjective about the fact that you wouldn't be able to take full advantage of the touch screen with it stuck in Laptop mode, and everything you'd do with it (in a Laptop form-factor) can be easily and ergonomically accomplished with a proper trackpad and trackpad gestures, making it unnecessary in a Laptop-only form. Which fits the definition of a gimmick; to equip or embellish with unnecessary features...

Not at all. Surface Pro 4 was the first Surface device of the 4th generation of Surface devices. That's why Surface Book, the Performance Base and now the laptop have all been compatible with the current generation of peripherals.

That makes absolutely no sense. Where exactly did you read or hear this their promise from? I heard it during their Surface Pro 3 presentation in 2014 and it's also reported in the news here. Guess what, only device compatible with the Surface Pro 3's dock is the Surface Pro 4 with the free Microsoft adapter for the dock. No later Surface device was promised to fit that dock, and no later Surface device is in the 4th iteration either, so, that promise clearly doesn't apply. Now unless you can pin point out where you heard that promise you talk of, it's clear you're just delusional.

Microsoft wants to make quality hardware and innovate in design and they do, but they also want to leave lots of space for the OEMs. Creating a premium laptop without USB C leaves space in the market for OEMs to occupy with a similar device with more future proofing.[/I]

They've given OEMs years to adopt USB Type C and get a head start. I don't think them staying behind and making non-future-proof devices is going to put any pressure on OEMs. That's not what the Surface Pro nor Surface Book have been doing, shouldn't be the case with this one either, especially in 2017 where even budget devices come with USB Type C.

 

[MrElectrifyer]

Anyone who has ever spent 1.3 seconds on a college campus knows that Macbook Air ($1000) and Macbook Pro ($1400) dominate the scene... They are everywhere!

Will the Surface Laptop bite into that market? Maybe...

Maybe on your Campus. On mine here in Canada, the classrooms were all filled with Windows PCs and I saw a lot of Surface Pros/Non-pro (or clones). Macs were a rear sight. Even colleagues who were seeing me use only a Surface Pro 2 while they carried binders of 1000s of pages worth of paper along with their Mac were all looking to switch.

 

[raqball]

I'm not on a campus so to speak but I do go to a lot of them for my job and my guess is it's easily 8 Macbooks (of some sort) out of every 10 laptops on all of the campuses I visit...

Students, teachers, faculty = All of em have a Macbook...

No clue about Canada......

 

[mtf1380]

@MrElectrifyer , I believe we all understand where your thoughts are with regards to the new Laptop, and it is obvious this is not the devices for you, maybe the next version, of more likely the Book of Pro5. But, I believe this new laptop will be "just right" for others.

If I can be ever so humble, and suggest that we not so vehemently trash a device that others may feel is right for them, and not even available yet Just a thought":^)

 

[raqball]

If I can be ever so humble, and suggest that we not so vehemently trash a device that others may feel is right for them, and not even available yet Just a thought":^)

Kudo's and I wish more would follow this advise. Sadly, this sub forum will be littered with negativity from those who do not want the PC, will not buy the PC and are only looking to complain about something, anything.. No USB C or it's not a 2 in 1 or it's not a convertible or it only maxes out at 16GB of RAM or price or..................................................

My order is in and I am excited to get it!

 

[mtf1380]

My order is in and I am excited to get it!

In platinum...if I read right