Very unhappy with my 830's performance!

[tortex73]

Still, though- excluding the possible worse performance (and incompatibilities), those problems you listed are only as big as YOU decide to make them. And if you know about and use xposed, I'm not buying that there'll be any learning curve worth mentioning.

Also, you specifically addressed one word (fear) of my post rather than the content there of. Call it what you will, you should be updating unless there is an actual problem with the update and your hardware.

If we are talking about updates that don't change the look and feel of the OS, then generally I have no problem taking them. But the ones in question change the overall look and feel of the devices I use, and they are changes that I don't like. I have used practically every version of OSX past 10.6.8 on other machines, and I don't LIKE them. I don't like the core functionality changes that were made. Why should I update then when I don't actually like what I'll be updating to? Same goes for Android- I have a Lollipop ROM on my Nexus 5 as a secondary via MultiROM and have used it a whole bunch. I prefer KitKat. Again, why should I update when I don't LIKE Lollipop?

And to address the rest of your first post about vulnerabilities, Apple patches them in security updates for all versions of their OSes. I always take those updates, I just don't want to upgrade to the newer OS. In my 32 years of life, I have never gotten a virus or had any security related issues on any device I have owned. I don't live in constant fear of crap like that because I am extremely cautious with what I do on the Internet and things I install on my machines. I use common sense, which after all this time is still the best protection against digital attacks. I am not your average ignorant consumer, I am very technically inclined and know my way around the digital world. It's not only a hobby of mine, but I work in the technology industry. For the average person, yes I agree they should stay current. But for me, I am perfectly fine, and perfectly safe where I'm at.



Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[link68759]

Careful about gloating over your street cred- you've never had a virus, or been on the receiving end of any vulnerability exploits as far as you are aware. Furthermore, leaving yourself open to them and saying you can avoid them is a bit like driving your car without wearing a seatbelt, claiming you don't need one because you've never been in an accident. Then one day someone rear ends you at a red light... Remember, it only needs to happen once.


While I agree that having experience and being cautious are a great first line of defense, it would be wiser to also have the flexibility of mind to adapt to UI and functionality changes. Since apple is back porting security patches to your device you'll be fine for now, but I don't know if you can say the same about Android.

 

[tortex73]

Careful about gloating over your street cred- you've never had a virus, or been on the receiving end of any vulnerability exploits as far as you are aware.



While I agree that having experience and being cautious are a great first line of defense, it would be wiser to also have the flexibility of mind to adapt to UI and functionality changes. Since apple is back porting security patches to your device you'll be fine for now, but I don't know if you can say the same about Android.

Oh I'm well aware of the implications of my attitude, and the day it bites me in the *** I promise I'll change my tune. But for now I just want to stick with what I am comfortable with. That said, I do not disagree with you at all and definitely do not recommend that other people follow my lead, for the exact reasons that you've outlined.

About Android, I know everyone who uses iOS and WP thinks it's so vulnerable (it's not) but if you know what you're doing and are as anal about your ROM and what's running on it as I am, you can keep yourself safe. One of the benefits of having a rooted device is having full control of anything and everything that runs on your phone. When you know what to do with that power, it's relatively easy to keep yourself protected. Seriously, my absolute last concern in life is a malicious attack on one of my Android phones.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

 

[link68759]

I specifically meant that lollipop might have vulnerability fixes that are not being back ported, not that Android is inherently insecure.

Although I would argue that having most of the functionality of the play store unavailable unless you remove your phones first line of defense, and also having a system where many OEMs and carriers can force bloatware and spyware upon you that can't be removed unless you take out your phone's first line of defense ... Is an ecosystem that just promotes horrible security practices and is fundamentally insecure to all but those with the knowhow and desire to root AND construct a properly secured environment. I'd argue that very few people actually do that. But that's a conversation for another day, another thread

 

[kristalsoldier]

Oh I'm well aware of the implications of my attitude, and the day it bites me in the *** I promise I'll change my tune. But for now I just want to stick with what I am comfortable with. That said, I do not disagree with you at all and definitely do not recommend that other people follow my lead, for the exact reasons that you've outlined.

About Android, I know everyone who uses iOS and WP thinks it's so vulnerable (it's not) but if you know what you're doing and are as anal about your ROM and what's running on it as I am, you can keep yourself safe. One of the benefits of having a rooted device is having full control of anything and everything that runs on your phone. When you know what to do with that power, it's relatively easy to keep yourself protected. Seriously, my absolute last concern in life is a malicious attack on one of my Android phones.

Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

Originally, I liked the idea of Android, but the reliance on Google (which is to be expected) killed the experience for me - unless something has changed since KitKat. And since I am no longer familiar with Android, tell me, can Google's services be totally avoided on Android if a user so wishes? TBH, I have (perhaps irrationally) more faith in MS (and probably in Apple) than in Google.

 

[tortex73]

Originally, I liked the idea of Android, but the reliance on Google (which is to be expected) killed the experience for me - unless something has changed since KitKat. And since I am no longer familiar with Android, tell me, can Google's services be totally avoided on Android if a user so wishes? TBH, I have (perhaps irrationally) more faith in MS (and probably in Apple) than in Google.

Aside from needing a Gmail account to access the play store, you can get away without using any other Google service, though I don't understand why you would want to. The thing I like most about Google over MS and Apple, is that their services work across all platforms, whereas MS and Apple keep people locked to their respective products. So no matter what phone I use, be it an Android, iPhone, or WP, I can put in my gmail account and have all my contacts. Google even has a great Drive app for iOS, though there isn't one for WP. I use Google wallet too, and can use that on iOS as well. I have an iPhone and an iPad and I don't really use any of Apple's services because Google's work so well cross-platform.

I'm curious, what is it about Android that you think is so heavily reliant on Google?

 

[poddie]

Aside from needing a Gmail account to access the play store, you can get away without using any other Google service, though I don't understand why you would want to. The thing I like most about Google over MS and Apple, is that their services work across all platforms, whereas MS and Apple keep people locked to their respective products. So no matter what phone I use, be it an Android, iPhone, or WP, I can put in my gmail account and have all my contacts. Google even has a great Drive app for iOS, though there isn't one for WP. I use Google wallet too, and can use that on iOS as well. I have an iPhone and an iPad and I don't really use any of Apple's services because Google's work so well cross-platform.

I'm curious, what is it about Android that you think is so heavily reliant on Google?

????

You're saying MS locks you into their platform and Google does not? I'm afraid you simply couldn't be more wrong... that's completely backwards.

 

[kristalsoldier]

Aside from needing a Gmail account to access the play store, you can get away without using any other Google service, though I don't understand why you would want to. The thing I like most about Google over MS and Apple, is that their services work across all platforms, whereas MS and Apple keep people locked to their respective products. So no matter what phone I use, be it an Android, iPhone, or WP, I can put in my gmail account and have all my contacts. Google even has a great Drive app for iOS, though there isn't one for WP. I use Google wallet too, and can use that on iOS as well. I have an iPhone and an iPad and I don't really use any of Apple's services because Google's work so well cross-platform.

I'm curious, what is it about Android that you think is so heavily reliant on Google?

No, its not the case that I think there is anything about Android and Google per se. I used to be a very heavy Gmail user and still have a Gmail account which I use to access G+. But, I have also noticed that progressively (since 2005, that is), Google has been increasingly mining my mails and throwing up apps. Now, I don't mind that - free service etc. - but its their very in-your-face data mining activities that has turned me off Gmail services. I also prefer OneDrive (though MS does have an app for Android) as compared to GDrive. I don't use any of the Wallet features nor do I use its equivalents on any other platforms. My regret, however, is that usually, Android phones are quite cheap as compared to MS alternatives and some of the new devices that I have seen are quite drool-worthy actually.

 

[kristalsoldier]

????

You're saying MS locks you into their platform and Google does not? I'm afraid you simply couldn't be more wrong... that's completely backwards.

Correct! Each eco-system does try to lock users into their services. However, even in this scenario, MS is probably the most flexible eco-system considering their recent activities in pushing out their services to other platforms.

 

[tortex73]

????

You're saying MS locks you into their platform and Google does not? I'm afraid you simply couldn't be more wrong... that's completely backwards.

While I may be wrong about MS, saying Google locks you to their platform is just absurd. The majority of their services are available across all platforms, and have been since before Android came to be. Remember, they weren't always in the OS business so with no platform of their own, they had to make their services available across the board. I use both OSX and Windows, iOS and Android, and all my Google stuff is easily accessed no matter what platform I'm on. The only reason why some of their stuff is limited on Windows Phone, is the same reason why everybody else's stuff is limited- WP just isn't that popular and doesn't have much market share at all, so developing for WP isn't a top priority.

Edit: Just wanted to add that on WP, you can't even change your search provider from Bing, just like Google is the default for Android. The only problem with that is who the hell uses Bing?? And on Windows 8, if you set a different browser as your default, Microsoft won't let you use the metro UI for IE. It's their browser or nothing.

No, its not the case that I think there is anything about Android and Google per se. I used to be a very heavy Gmail user and still have a Gmail account which I use to access G+. But, I have also noticed that progressively (since 2005, that is), Google has been increasingly mining my mails and throwing up apps. Now, I don't mind that - free service etc. - but its their very in-your-face data mining activities that has turned me off Gmail services. I also prefer OneDrive (though MS does have an app for Android) as compared to GDrive. I don't use any of the Wallet features nor do I use its equivalents on any other platforms. My regret, however, is that usually, Android phones are quite cheap as compared to MS alternatives and some of the new devices that I have seen are quite drool-worthy actually.

Yeah well the mining is how Google makes their money so it comes with the territory. All of their services are free to the end user, so they have to make their money somehow, and that's through mining and subsequently, targeted ads. But the nice thing is you can opt out of a lot of it. And yeah, Android does have some really, REALLY nice phones. I'm using the 2014 Moto X and it's probably the nicest smartphone ever made. I've had 20+ smartphones since 2009 and the Moto X is easily my favorite. I really wanted to love the Lumina 830, but Nokia cut the wrong corners. It is just way too underpowered. If the 930 was available for AT&T I would probably still be using WP. But I am glad the 830 ended up being a dud, because I returned it, and put the money towards a Surface Pro 3 which is the coolest thing ever. Typing on it now, I'm in love

 

[D M C]

Correct! Each eco-system does try to lock users into their services. However, even in this scenario, MS is probably the most flexible eco-system considering their recent activities in pushing out their services to other platforms.

MS only pushing their services to those who has higher market share..
Give me an eexample where MS offer their services which have lower market than MS.

GOogle and MS are doing same thing it's just their fan that call them evil or something.

 

[Ordeith]

MS applications and services are available for Mac OSX, and it has much lower market share.

 

[D M C]

MS applications and services are available for Mac OSX, and it has much lower market share.

I knew it some one will mention Apple.
yep Only Apple. What about others?

Everyone provide their application/services to apple because it got premium users base and it's very popular in USA.
Even Google provide their services too.

If anyone tell that Google is evil then so does MS

Now tell me what is difference between Ms and Google.
Both provide services to only those who got higher market share.(with exception of Apple).

 

[tortex73]

I knew it some one will mention Apple.
yep Only Apple. What about others?

Everyone provide their application/services to apple because it got premium users base and it's very popular in USA.
Even Google provide their services too.

If anyone tell that Google is evil then so does MS

Now tell me what is difference between Ms and Google.
Both provide services to only those who got higher market share.(with exception of Apple).

All of Google's services are available on literally every platform that has an internet browser. From Gmail, to Drive, to Docs, etc... all available online.

 

[a5cent]

yep Only Apple. What about others?

Well, for one, MS just open sourced a decade's worth of .NET research & development, while also contributing to its reference implementation on Linux, which I think has around 2% desktop market share.
That's a billion dollars+ worth of effort they gave away for free to anybody that wants it.
That will also further strengthen ongoing efforts like Mono or Xamarin, which already do a god job of leveraging Microsoft's development technologies (C#, xaml) on competing platforms... oh yeah... all of that will also be coming to Chrome OS... a platform with even less market share than Linux.
When was the last time Apple or Google contributed anything to the developer community, that wasn't focused specifically on there own ecosystems? Did they ever? Sun did it. IBM does it. MS has done a lot of it...
You need look no further than these company's business models and culture to recognize that they can't possibly all behave identically. IMHO those differences matter, or at least they matter to me.

 

[kristalsoldier]

While I may be wrong about MS, saying Google locks you to their platform is just absurd. The majority of their services are available across all platforms, and have been since before Android came to be. Remember, they weren't always in the OS business so with no platform of their own, they had to make their services available across the board. I use both OSX and Windows, iOS and Android, and all my Google stuff is easily accessed no matter what platform I'm on. The only reason why some of their stuff is limited on Windows Phone, is the same reason why everybody else's stuff is limited- WP just isn't that popular and doesn't have much market share at all, so developing for WP isn't a top priority.

Edit: Just wanted to add that on WP, you can't even change your search provider from Bing, just like Google is the default for Android. The only problem with that is who the hell uses Bing?? And on Windows 8, if you set a different browser as your default, Microsoft won't let you use the metro UI for IE. It's their browser or nothing.



Yeah well the mining is how Google makes their money so it comes with the territory. All of their services are free to the end user, so they have to make their money somehow, and that's through mining and subsequently, targeted ads. But the nice thing is you can opt out of a lot of it. And yeah, Android does have some really, REALLY nice phones. I'm using the 2014 Moto X and it's probably the nicest smartphone ever made. I've had 20+ smartphones since 2009 and the Moto X is easily my favorite. I really wanted to love the Lumina 830, but Nokia cut the wrong corners. It is just way too underpowered. If the 930 was available for AT&T I would probably still be using WP. But I am glad the 830 ended up being a dud, because I returned it, and put the money towards a Surface Pro 3 which is the coolest thing ever. Typing on it now, I'm in love

Yeah well, I have had the SP3 since June 20th, which I use everyday for over 12 hours per day and it goes with me wherever I go! I recently bought the L830 and I am quite happy with it. And, for the record, I also have an iPad Air (though I only use it as an e-reader) and the Nexus 10 (which I never take online - unless it is to install OS updates), which I use a dedicated video player.

Edit: I quite like Google's search engine, which I used to use all the time till recently. Currently, I am using Bing and its all right though I still think Google is better. I do use Google's search engine from time to time. At other times, I use DogPile.

 

[a5cent]

All of Google's services are available on literally every platform that has an internet browser. From Gmail, to Drive, to Docs, etc... all available online.

This is not quite correct. WP is a platform with an internet browser, but Google deliberately serves crippled HTML (stuff from the early 2000's) to any device identifying as WP. Try and use Google search or maps on WP. You'll feel you've been transported back in time by at least a decade.

 

[alacrityvirtue]

UPDATE: I did a hard reset and most of the issues are now ok, except the awful reception, which is a deal breaker for me, so now I need to try and find another phone that I will be happy with. Is there a site or list of phones that have really good reception, or is there something that I need to look out for in the spec's?

 

[D M C]

Well, for one, MS just open sourced a decade's worth of .NET research & development, while also contributing to its reference implementation on Linux, which I think has around 2% desktop market share.
That's a billion dollars+ worth of effort they gave away for free to anybody that wants it.
That will also further strengthen ongoing efforts like Mono or Xamarin, which already do a god job of leveraging Microsoft's development technologies (C#, xaml) on competing platforms... oh yeah... all of that will also be coming to Chrome OS... a platform with even less market share than Linux.
When was the last time Apple or Google contributed anything to the developer community, that wasn't focused specifically on there own ecosystems? Did they ever? Sun did it. IBM does it. MS has done a lot of it...
You need look no further than these company's business models and culture to recognize that they can't possibly all behave identically. IMHO those differences matter, or at least they matter to me.

Aren't you forgetting Android here sir.
Open source Android to Developers community.

I don't know what Apple did but MS didn't contributed more than Google to Developers community.

As I said in the end both Google and MS are doing same thing.
It's just the fan who think of evil but both are doing business.

 

[Noahma]

As I said in the end both Google and MS are doing same thing.
It's just the fan who think of evil but both are doing business.

Not quite. Microsoft is a Software company, they are there to sell their software, services and devices to customers. Google is an Advertising company. Their purpose is to mine data to SELL to companies wanting to sell their products, and push advertisements to potential customers for there products.

I trust Microsoft more than I do Google for the simple fact that Microsoft's main purpose is NOT to sell my data to companies, but to sell their products and services to me.