Will an "unlocked" 950XL work on Verizon?

[oldpueblo]

what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.

It may work technically, but not realistically. Will it support Verizon's visual voice mail, hotspot, other Verizon features? Verizon want's total control, they install backup software and all sorts of Verizon tools. People bring up the Nexus 6 as an example of an unlocked phone working on Verizon, but last I heard Verizon actually sell the Nexus 6 on their own, so it makes sense that the Nexus 6 would work unlocked because it's already in the system. But an unlocked phone they know nothing about that isn't in their system? CDMA carriers have more back-end certification than just pop in a SIM. It's entirely possible that it went this way:

MS: We want you to carry the phone.
VZ: Sure, first let us modify the **** out of it.
MS: Nope sorry.
VZ: Okay then, no deal!
MS: Welp.

Maybe they disable bands to stave off customer support issues, there are band license issues, who knows? But if it's bought unlocked from MS and it won't work on Verizon, people won't be going to Verizon angry they'll be returning them to the MS store and yelling at MS. More than anything said in this thread, this is the scenario that makes the most sense and fits the relationship Verizon has had with MS in the past. It also jives with what MS said recently about carrier support/starting fresh on solid ground. Until I see proof, that's what it looks like to me.

 

[Charles Brown8]

what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.

Bingo!
I'm on straight talk Verizon LTE anyhow.. That's the upgrade path I intended, buy straight from a MS store.. Lol.. Just unlock the bands and slide my sim in from my icon, Hehe..

 

[feereless]

It may work technically, but not realistically. Will it support Verizon's visual voice mail, hotspot, other Verizon features? Verizon want's total control, they install backup software and all sorts of Verizon tools. People bring up the Nexus 6 as an example of an unlocked phone working on Verizon, but last I heard Verizon actually sell the Nexus 6 on their own, so it makes sense that that phone would work unlocked since they're already prepared for it. But an unlocked phone they know nothing about that isn't in their system? CDMA carriers have more back-end certification than just pop in a SIM. It's entirely possible that it went this way:

MS: We want you to carry the phone.
VZ: Sure, first let us modify the **** out of it.
MS: Nope sorry.
VZ: Okay then, no deal!
MS: Welp.

Maybe they disable bands to stave of customer support issues, there are band license issues, who knows? But if it's bought unlocked from MS and it won't work on Verizon, people won't be going to Verizon angry they'll be returning them to the MS store and yelling at MS. More than anything said in this thread, this is the scenario that makes the most sense and fits the relationship Verizon has had with MS in the past. Until I see proof, that's what it looks like to me.

The SD 808/810 by default have the cdma capability. any unlocked phone will work. same exact internals as the new nexus. visual vm, hotspot, all that jazz is by line, not device. as long as they are enabled on that line, they will work. those features have nothing to do with the device.

 

[Ben Schmidt1]

Would a jailbreak be possible to unlock the bands? I'm not 100% familiar with how that'll work.

 

[feereless]

Would a jailbreak be possible to unlock the bands? I'm not 100% familiar with how that'll work.

idk, msft is pretty good about keeping them on lockdown... only few htc phones have been able to be jailbroken.. so i highly doubt a msft branded one will be able to be jailbroken.

 

[TK2011]

Well, what I am saying is that Microsoft - per the Paul Thurrott post - says that Microsoft has "said they can NOT WIN" in the "current smartphone market" against Apple and Android and is "narrowing their focus"!

I am a business user on Verizon! I just happen to also use my Lumia Icon for "personal as well"!

They did NOT say they are "abandoning the Enterprise and Business" market for smartphones = BYOD is still a key focus!

Don't listen to Thurrott. He talks like he knows insider information but he really doesn't. He's been wrong with "scoops" so many times in the past.

 

[oldpueblo]

The SD 808/810 by default have the cdma capability. any unlocked phone will work. same exact internals as the new nexus. visual vm, hotspot, all that jazz is by line, not device. as long as they are enabled on that line, they will work. those features have nothing to do with the device.

Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.

 

[MikeSo]

by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network.

Which law is this? Sources, please. I have never heard of this before this thread.

 

[TK2011]

what i dont understand is all this stuff about msft and verizon. all msft needs to do is unlock the cdma bands and be done with it. by LAW verizon MUST accept any unlocked phone onto their network. none of this negotiation crap. thats if they want vzn to carry the phone in stores. if verizon ppl want it then they will pay full price anyway since (for those who still have it) they lose their unlimited data if they "upgrade".

unlock the damn phone microsoft. it will sell.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Are you sure there's such law for CDMA? And how about those reports that "unblessed" phones from outside don't work very well on Verizon perhaps because Verizon don't like them?

 

[MikeSo]

The Icon had Denim before anything on AT&T.

The important delay with the Icon was actually Cyan, which it received way after everyone else in pretty much the world. It was Cyan that enabled Bluetooth LE and the Lumia Motion sensor, which I personally use every day. Denim was more of an incremental upgrade, compared to Cyan.

 

[TK2011]

Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.

I don't understand what you are saying. You can buy an unlocked *Verizon* Windows Phone from another carrier???

 

[oldpueblo]

I don't understand what you are saying. You can buy an unlocked *Verizon* Windows Phone from another carrier???

Verizon lost a court case some time ago that forced them to unlock all their devices that were "world devices", aka could take a GSM SIM for when you wanted to travel overseas (or move to AT&T). So of course they had to lock certain things like functional MMS to keep their phones from being bought by people to use on networks other than Verizon. That's Verizon. So yes, I can buy any Verizon phone that has GSM bands and immediately use it on AT&T, I just won't have MMS and some other quirks I don't recall. Now that's just being a **** carrier, basically they say you want this fancy new phone you have to switch to us to get it. Meanwhile everyone else just launches a phone on GSM for the entire world to use.

 

[feereless]

Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.

that was before this law passed

Which law is this? Sources, please. I have never heard of this before this thread.

it falls under the "Unlocking Consumer Choice and Wireless Competition Act" which states that all fcc carriers must allow unlocked phones on their network.

 

[MikeSo]

that was before this law passed



it falls under the "Unlocking Consumer Choice and Wireless Competition Act" which states that all fcc carriers must allow unlocked phones on their network.

That law just states that consumers must be allowed to unlock their phones. It doesn't say that networks must allow unlocked phones. Is there another law you're thinking of? Or some minor provision in that law? If so, please point to that.

EDIT: the law you cite even points out that it's up to the owner of the network to allow the phone. From the summary:

Allows such circumvention (unlocking) to be initiated by the owner of such a device, by another person at the direction of the owner, or by a provider of a commercial mobile radio service or a commercial mobile data service at the direction of such owner or other person, solely in order to enable such owner or a family member of such owner to connect to a wireless telecommunications network, when such connection is authorized by the operator of such network.

 

[TK2011]

Verizon lost a court case some time ago that forced them to unlock all their devices that were "world devices", aka could take a GSM SIM for when you wanted to travel overseas (or move to AT&T). So of course they had to lock certain things like functional MMS to keep their phones from being bought by people to use on networks other than Verizon. That's Verizon. So yes, I can buy any Verizon phone that has GSM bands and immediately use it on AT&T, I just won't have MMS and some other quirks I don't recall. Now that's just being a **** carrier, basically they say you want this fancy new phone you have to switch to us to get it. Meanwhile everyone else just launches a phone on GSM for the entire world to use.

Got it. But your earlier post is phrased in a confusing way - it's not clear where you bought that phone and used where.

Anyway, the question people are more interested in is whether MS can sell "CDMA-unlocked" version of L950/XL from their stores that will work reliably on Verizon. Seems like it's an unanswered question.

 

[feereless]

That law just states that consumers must be allowed to unlock their phones. It doesn't say that networks must allow unlocked phones. Is there another law you're thinking of? Or some minor provision in that law? If so, please point to that.

cant post links yet.. but here
https:// www . govtrack. us/congress/bills/113/s517/summary#libraryofcongress

take out the spaces

 

[MikeSo]

cant post links yet.. but here
https:// www . govtrack. us/congress/bills/113/s517/summary#libraryofcongress

take out the spaces

Yes, see my previous edit to my post. The law doesn't say what you think it says. It doesn't force a network to allow all phones.

 

[feereless]

Yes, see my previous edit to my post. The law doesn't say what you think it says. It doesn't force a network to allow all phones.

yes it does.. click on the summary tab...

"The bill would allow consumers to use their mobile devices with any wireless carrier. It also expands the right to unlock devices from mobile phones to all wireless devices."

 

[MikeSo]

yes it does.. click on the summary tab...

"The bill would allow consumers to use their mobile devices with any wireless carrier. It also expands the right to unlock devices from mobile phones to all wireless devices."

Right. You're allowed to do this now, whereas before it was illegal to do it. It doesn't MANDATE the networks to allow your phone.

 

[djarchow]

I understand Microsoft's desire to narrow their focus. Selling fewer, but better models of phones makes sense. Targeting three segments of customers (value, business, and Windows fans) makes good sense too.

What doesn't make sense to me, especially if Microsoft intends actually sell any of these phones, is excluding 65% of the US market and all of Canada from getting the 950. Not to mention that except for some unconfirmed rumors, the 950XL won't be sold by anyone in the US or Canada other than Microsoft. Yes, I know that you can buy the phones in a Microsoft store or online; but at least today, far more phones are sold by the carrier than in the phone manufacture's store or website. (eg. only 15% of iPhones are bought directly from Apple.)

To me a better strategy would be to first try to repair the relationships that haven't been productive in the past so that you can make your products, even if a niche item available, to everyone that wants to buy them. If that doesn't work, then circumvent those carriers that don't want to play nice and use the capabilities in the hardware MS already paid for to allow those customers who do want to buy your phones to use them anywhere.