Will Windows Phone continue to avoid to make a File Manager?

[DavidinCT]

Remember, Windows Mobile was what to Android is today. Windows Mobile TRIED to be Windows with file system access and 1/2 the features you could get on a desktop. At one time, you had a choice, Windows Mobile or Black Berry (the main ones). You can see what happened to Windows Mobile, as it was great for it's time it's no where near what is needed by people today.

No File manager is a good thing (in this aspect), Keeps the system secure. If you could access the file system, so could apps and in today's world, that is a Virus waiting to happen.

There should be some type of file manager for your SD card or the pictures, music folders that you have access to on the computer.

 

[anonymous934875938475938475]

Windows Phone will never again have a file manager in the true sense of the word, the new sandbox model will not allow it, to allow such a system would defeat the purpose of having a sandbox model. The OS is designed such that the User should not need to use a file manager, and applications are able to manage their own files, if the files are supposed to be managed, it is up to the app to let you manage them, if you cannot manage particular files, that is done by design.

Not good for people who want to root the phone........but good for most users as they can't "loose" files or stuff things up as easily!

 

[Charles Roddie]

Again, I don't have a background in computer science, but I think the problem with that is how do you prevent apps from accessing files they shouldn't? You're thinking that security = system files not be accessed, but that's not quite true. Let's say you download a photo you want to keep private. Well since your download goes to the "My Documents" folder which any app can access, what's stopping another app from accessing that photo without your permission? I wouldn't call that secure.

You didn't wait for the answer. Security is provided in the following ways:
1. The user/ an app that the user has chosen has decided to put the file in my documents rather than isolated storage.
2. The accessing app has been approved by Microsoft for publication in the Windows Store, which rules out most malicious software
3. The user has chosen to install this app, informed by reviews etc.
4. The user has explicitly given the app permission to access the files/folders, for example selecting them via an OS-provided file/folder picker

#4 is a strong guarantee of security, but even #1 to #3 are sufficient. All are present in WinRT apps.

Exactly, I'm not sure what people want other than a file manager. Like a5cent said, a file manager is just their idea of a solution to a problem, not the actual problem. The actual problem would be something like I can't download files in Internet Explorer.

Please explain how you can do the following on for example a Nokia 920 phone (WP8, without SD card).
- Put a 20GB collection of music on the phone with a folder structure and play it back gaplessly.
- Attach a pdf and two word documents to a single email.
- Transfer files from PC via USB.
- Store a collection of ebooks on the phone, for access from any ebook reader.
These are the sorts of problems solved, not by a file manager, but by a user documents folder (needed to allow a file manager).

It's really too much that people who know very little about computers come out with bold claims like files are not important. It is understandable that Microsoft's marketing department must advertise gaps and bugs as if they were features, just as all the gaps in WP7 that were filled in WP8 were originally advertised as features. What is harder to understand is how people are fooled by it.

 

[tungha]

Remember, Windows Mobile was what to Android is today. Windows Mobile TRIED to be Windows with file system access and 1/2 the features you could get on a desktop. At one time, you had a choice, Windows Mobile or Black Berry (the main ones). You can see what happened to Windows Mobile, as it was great for it's time it's no where near what is needed by people today.

No File manager is a good thing (in this aspect), Keeps the system secure. If you could access the file system, so could apps and in today's world, that is a Virus waiting to happen.

There should be some type of file manager for your SD card or the pictures, music folders that you have access to on the computer.

I don't think so. Building a file manager will make everything simply if you want to manage your personal file and transfer to other devices using bluetooth or usb connector. Why it will not make the OS secure? You know the OS is really "sandbox", so all the files stored in SD cannot be executed without permission and we just want an easy way to store our downloaded data, personal stuff,...even the files cannot be opened directly in the OS, we can open them when connect to PC later

 

[vish2801]

Thanks Vish. Got htc one x +. Saw this discussion at the right time and was saved from making a blusterous decision

Nexus 4 is available in India for 26k, but htc one x+ is also not bad as it has more storage, don't follow some of members here, they are die hard MS fan, for them what MS does is always right and if wrong they come up with some weird logic to justify the action or simply leave the discussion by saying adapt it or buy Android, I mean why MS can't put some features which moat users want. Whatever, enjoy your onex+....

 

[vish2801]

"And that's called hell lot of restrictions ..."

Not really, I wouldn't expect to have to go into a file manager to find my music to play it. That's where the Music + Video Hub comes in and pulls all my music and video, whether it's from the SD Card on stored on the phone so I go into one place to play it, same goes for all the other hubs.

"... why can't we simply attach files like the way we do in PC and why we have to go to individual files to attach them ..."

Because this isn't a PC it's a phone. If you want that sort of functionality then get a Windows MOBILE device or an Android phone.

"... why can't we attach files we can't be supported by wp ..."

Files that are unsupported by the phone itself shouldn't be downloaded on the phone then, plain and simple. For example, if I'm downloading drivers for a PC then I download them on another PC, not on my phone.

I can't stop laughing, who the hell wants file manager to play music ??? Come up with better explanation, we can do a lot of task by using file manager.


See, that's kind of attitude I hate to see, it's a smart phone, even feature phone like asha can do that but not wp, that's plain idiotic. Ever used Outlook or Hotmail app in android ?? Just see how file attachment works

Oh please, a feature phone can download unsupported file and you can delete it or tansfer it via bluetooth or mail it or send it to pc via usb. While with wp, even if we accidentally get any unsupported file we can't delete it even after attaching to pc via usb. What kind of functionality is this ??? Think beyond US, many people don't have internet connection to PC but they do have 2G activated in their smart phones. I'm accessing this forum by 2G connection. So, you can understand from where people get music,videos or other files on their phones. We don't even have online music store here, we have to download music from third party pirate sites. And frankly, nobody wants to spend money behind all this stuffs. Now you can figure out which market is most valuable for Nokia right now....And which countries are responsible for whatever market share for wp....

 

[vish2801]

The point that everyone seems to be missing is that file management is not something that is an 'addon' or app, it's a set of functions that need to be built into the underlying OS. I'm sure Microsoft could add this to WP, but at what price?

Consider this - WP8 is a lightweight phone operating system that has been almost universally praised for its responsiveness and lack of 'lag', even on relatively modest hardware. One reason for this is that the OS is not weighed down by excessive features and functions commonly found on a desktop OS (which runs on considerably gruntier hardware and serves a completely different purpose). Android, on the other hand, has been almost universally criticized because it lags on even the heftiest phone hardware. But it does have a lot of these underlying features and functions commonly found in a desktop operating system, of which an open and generalized file management system is one. And keep in mind that adding sub-systems such as generalised file management and then exposing this for use by third-party apps will compromise file security unless you add even more layers of code to protect that security.

There's a lesson here. The more features and functions you build in at the operating system level, the more you load up the hardware that the OS runs on. Creating a lag-free experience while catering for the functions and capabilities customers want is a balancing act. Microsoft - whether you agree or not - has opted not to add the overheads of a generalised file management system and the API to access it (and the security layers to protect it) to WP8. Personally, I hope they don't go down this route unless/until they can optimise the functions to the point where it doesn't impact on the overall responsiveness of the WP operating system.

Bottom line is WP is not a desktop operating system and doesn't have the overheads of such a system. If it did it would probably run a lot more like Android on similar hardware.

That said - and this is something that has been pointed out many times in this thread - Microsoft must (and I've no doubt it will) improve the functionality of systems (such as email) to allow easier attaching of files. But this is a far cry from implementing a 'file manager'.

Why do you keep saying by adding file management feature, OS will lag ??? Nobody wants to see what files an app contains, people want to see only personal files but unfortunately our personal files get locked down with individual app's storage which is very annoying and big sacrifice of functionality against so called security.

C'mon we are talking about basic features which a feature phone does have, nobody wants custom roms or file executing functionality on phones, nobody wants command prompt on phones. We need basic functionality only from a smart phone like just managing personal files whether files downloaded or received via Bluetooth or transferred via usb. Nothing more than tbat.

We are talking about the biggest software company here, don't doubt their ability, I'm sure they can even make OS lag free with hell lot of features. Ever used Maemo or Meego from Nokia ?? Both don't have lags like android but still both are far superior than Android in functionality....Don't come with excuse like lags here.

 

[OzRob]

Nobody wants to see what files an app contains, people want to see only personal files...

That's right. What you want is better handling of personal files within apps NOT a general file manager. And that's certainly possible and indeed, probably coming in future updates of the OS. Unfortunately you seem to be mixing the two things up.

If you read my posts carefully you'll note that all I am saying (and have ever said) is that generalised file management capabilities pose a risk to the fluidity and security of the operating system. I have also said that MS must improve file handling within apps to allow for the sort of things you want, eg. download a file to a specific location on the SD card and then attach this file to an email. So basically we are in agreement.

BTW I have used Meego. All I'll say is, it's not Windows Phone.

 

[vish2801]

Windows Phone will never again have a file manager in the true sense of the word, the new sandbox model will not allow it, to allow such a system would defeat the purpose of having a sandbox model. The OS is designed such that the User should not need to use a file manager, and applications are able to manage their own files, if the files are supposed to be managed, it is up to the app to let you manage them, if you cannot manage particular files, that is done by design.

Not good for people who want to root the phone........but good for most users as they can't "loose" files or stuff things up as easily!

Doesn't WinRT have somekind of sandbox ?? Still it has fole management system. Well, point is change that sanbox and give some opem ness to users...

 

[vish2801]

I don't think so. Building a file manager will make everything simply if you want to manage your personal file and transfer to other devices using bluetooth or usb connector. Why it will not make the OS secure? You know the OS is really "sandbox", so all the files stored in SD cannot be executed without permission and we just want an easy way to store our downloaded data, personal stuff,...even the files cannot be opened directly in the OS, we can open them when connect to PC later

People who're coming up here with own logic are fanbois of MS. Most people want this feature and that's the fact and MS can do something about it for sure.Big question is will it do something about it ?? Meanwhile, Ignore these people.....

 

[vish2801]

That's right. What you want is better handling of personal files within apps NOT a general file manager. And that's certainly possible and indeed, probably coming in future updates of the OS. Unfortunately you seem to be mixing the two things up.

If you read my posts carefully you'll note that all I am saying (and have ever said) is that generalised file management capabilities pose a risk to the fluidity and security of the operating system. I have also said that MS must improve file handling within apps to allow for the sort of things you want, eg. download a file to a specific location on the SD card and then attach this file to an email. So basically we are in agreement.

BTW I have used Meego. All I'll say is, it's not Windows Phone.

Yeah, all most of people want is to manage personal files only whether phone supports it or not and if we can have this, nobody can stop WP from being viral with best user experience.

I have used maemo and meego both, and I can say it's also not Android.... It has very potential and fluidity than Android but certainly not as fluid as WP...

 

[vish2801]

Remember, Windows Mobile was what to Android is today. Windows Mobile TRIED to be Windows with file system access and 1/2 the features you could get on a desktop. At one time, you had a choice, Windows Mobile or Black Berry (the main ones). You can see what happened to Windows Mobile, as it was great for it's time it's no where near what is needed by people today. No File manager is a good thing (in this aspect), Keeps the system secure. If you could access the file system, so could apps and in today's world, that is a Virus waiting to happen. There should be some type of file manager for your SD card or the pictures, music folders that you have access to on the computer.

Please follow the posts of people demanding file manager. Because we actually want limited file manager so we can manage our pwrsonal files or downloaded files only....There must be a way for this and I hope MS would do something about it....

 

[Lumio]

Think of a situation like this.

I copied hell a lot of videos only to know that, the format is not supported by WP. Since it's not supported, it won't be shown in Music+videos; I've to manually connect the WP to PC, and then i've to delete the unsupported video. With a file manager, i can straightly go to the folder (something like SD card\videos) and delete that particular video.

I mean what wrong the file manager going to do to WP, and for God's sake - even my old JAVA based Nokia mobile has an in-built file manager.

 

[Jrexxx]

Well clearly MS doesn't want you copying videos to your phone =P I guess that's a method for them to make you buy your stuff instead of pirating it...

 

[vish2801]

Well clearly MS doesn't want you copying videos to your phone =P I guess that's a method for them to make you buy your stuff instead of pirating it...

LoL, then MS is irrelevant in markets where Nokia has actually presence or I should say Nokia is relevant. If MS is irrelevant and Nokia is relevant, what would be the outcome ??? Is this your best excuse for nit having limited file manager on wp ???

 

[N_LaRUE]

I've stayed away from this thread for sometime now as I didn't want to continue talking around in circles with people who seemed to 'know' or 'understand' the OS system and it's security features but didn't have any way of explaining the issues. So after some searching I found this PDF which is from Microsoft explaining the secrity in Windows Phone which was a PowerPoint presentation.

https://www.msec.be/mobcom/ws2013/presentations/david_hernie.pdf

Now I'm no expert on the security side of things but it looks like they have a lot of security in place. The main part that interested me was the division between the OS kernel and the 'less previleged' parts of the OS and the fact the the apps are installed in 'sandbox' security methods. Even though I now have a better grasp on how things work I do however believe that implementing a file storage area which can be accessed by programs on the phone is still possible and I don't see how doing so would effect the security of the OS.

Please let me know if I'm off track.

 

[Jrexxx]

LoL, then MS is irrelevant in markets where Nokia has actually presence or I should say Nokia is relevant. If MS is irrelevant and Nokia is relevant, what would be the outcome ??? Is this your best excuse for nit having limited file manager on wp ???

It's not my excuse I don't care if there's a file manager or not. I personally don't watch movies on my phone, and don't like copying stuff on it through the mess that is the Windows Phone 8 app. All that I'm saying is that the argument of syncing video doesn't stand in the utopic world that we are supposed to be living in with these phones where you use Netflix, hulu, Xbox video etc.

 

[tungha]

i just don't get it people want the best for this OS, so they leave comments and then some crazy ****** come up and try to be an expert for everything...I've been with WP since it first announced with the HD7, i never give up my hope for this OS, BUT time's running and WE need something to believe Microsoft can do something with our feedback. At least, give a message or when will "basic" features will come.

 

[Gaichuke]

i just don't get it people want the best for this OS, so they leave comments and then some crazy ****** come up and try to be an expert for everything...I've been with WP since it first announced with the HD7, i never give up my hope for this OS, BUT time's running and WE need something to believe Microsoft can do something with our feedback. At least, give a message or when will "basic" features will come.

The message is that there's never going to be a file manager for WP. Deal with it or move on. It's up to you.

 

[tungha]

The message is that there's never going to be a file manager for WP. Deal with it or move on. It's up to you.

i hope you read everything i wrote, i've sticked to this OS for almost 2 years and NEVER give up my hope for this OS. If i'm not dealing with it i've already jumped to other platforms!
the thing we're discussing now related to HOW MSFT is doing with customers' feedback. Please respect others' opinion