Will Windows Phone continue to avoid to make a File Manager?

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N_LaRUE

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Ok, I ran out of patience after the first 3 pages of replies lol. Basically the discussion seems to be a 'to be or not to be' type situation for a file manager. I will start by saying that I am an average user, i.e. not a techie (can't write code) but well versed in using technology, so not a basic user (call and txt only type user :p). And I can say that I'm on team file manager! Let me explain why, someone did point out that a file manager type facility should be there to download files and re-attach files to emails on the move, and that is one the many situations where it is definitely needed! Another is due to windows weird storage issues, the problem I am facing is that, I have a 32 GB external card installed. But despite that I am constantly out of memory only because videos i pre-load for watching on metrotube or books that I've bought in kindle and audible ALL load onto my phone storage taking up it's very limited 8gb(-1.9 gb) space. This requires me to constantly delete and re-load them to constantly make space. I am wasting time and DATA doing this regularly. Now if only there was a file manager type facility ( while I do understand apps need to be contained and run in their secured environments but some ability does need to be given to us to move non executable files to the external storage cards!!) I could move the files out of the app data storage (in my phone) to the external storage devices! Now before I get stupid responses like 'get an android' I will say I love my windows phone and OS but it definitely is not perfect!! and this is a very basic and genuine need I don't understand why it is so controversial. I want to free up space in my phone's storage and move stuff to my external storage, plus what about transferring videos downloaded to my pc/laptop? I can't even see those videos on windows explorer.............
this is a problem and does need a solution........... I am sure there can be a compromised solution that gives us secured control unlike the structure in android (which is so open that mistakes can and are made requiring recovery :p)

Since I don't have a WP with a SD card and don't download videos from Metrotube or books from Kindle I'm not 100% certain what I'm going to tell you will work but you can look into it and report back that would be great.

I believe in the Storage settings you can have photos and videos saved to SD card. You should check your apps in their settings to see if you have the option to save to SD card in them.

When you attach your phone to the computer is comes up as Phone storage in My computer in Windows Explorer. In the Phone storage you'll have files in there. I've noticed that when I take videos on the phone they end up in Camera Roll. It's possible that your videos you download end up there or in one of the other folders.

Since I'm in the pro file manager camp it is things like this that I think people misunderstand as to why some form of management is required instead of the half baked idea that exists in WP.
 

vish2801

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So much doom and gloom and so unnecessary. Have you seen the numbers? Windows Phone is being adopted by many and is out pacing even Android in new adopters. Relax and take a step back for the disaster wheel people. Its not all bad news. Microsoft will get to adding more features. We are not on your time scale it will happen when it happens. The members of this community that find WP appealing and enjoy using the OS are not wrong. Not everyone needs what you need from an OS.

You came here from somewhere. Why? What brought you to buy a WP? Most are tired of the same old same old so think about that. WP SO does most thing mentioned in this thread it is just done differently. Microsoft has decided some things need to be done on a table or PC. That is a different way of doing things. You wanted something different you got it make the best of it until Microsoft decides to add the feature you are requesting.

Does anyone here really think that Microsoft is done adding features to the OS?

Why all the doom and gloom. Be patient enjoy what you have now. The fastest most productive stable OS on the market.

Don't be happy by seeing so called adoption rate of wp,it's just a spin in favor of wp by wp ****** sites. WP has very very tiny market share compared to Android.
And mind you, most of wp users are converted Nokia users. And most of them think wp serves all those old features of symbian in wp. And that's obvious, why Nokia should adopt an OS which doesn't provide same user experience but most of them become disappointed. Nokia actually lost many users during wp7 era because so called tight security by MS. People couldn't even send files via Bluetooth and that unacceptable, it's just an example. That's why people making so much noise and telling MS to act fast. You can't even set any song as ringtone by default. How pathetic is that, believe me that kid's corner is actually not essential, MS shouldn't even have released OS without such basic features.
 

Juhi Dhar

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Hi N_LaRUE,

Thanks for your reply. Believe me I tried checking for all other solutions first since I was confident that windows must have provided a way for me to do this. I would have been fine with the ability to access it and move/delete/copy files via PC connection and a 3rd party program if needed. But so far it is not there. I cannot see the files downloaded in metrotube, getthemall, flash video player, kindle and audible on the phone storage area that shows up when I connect to the PC neither do I get an option in their individual settings to change storage to SD Card. Although at least getthemall does provide a way to link to PC via home wifi network and move files to PC, only issue with that is I am effectively downloading the file twice then :p. I think at the very least in the absence of a file manager maybe that setting should be introduced....??.....
Funny thing is I have a Lumia 620 with 8GB internal storage (of which only 7.7-1.9 is accessible to me) so I have installed a 32 GB external SD card, and in my settings I have set ALL photos and videos to be stored to SD card. Even so, my phone storage is constantly running out (sometimes I can't install newer apps because of this) when my SD card has like 25 GB free!!!
Solution needed for sure! :)

Thanks!
 

Juhi Dhar

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Since I don't have a WP with a SD card and don't download videos from Metrotube or books from Kindle I'm not 100% certain what I'm going to tell you will work but you can look into it and report back that would be great.

I believe in the Storage settings you can have photos and videos saved to SD card. You should check your apps in their settings to see if you have the option to save to SD card in them.

When you attach your phone to the computer is comes up as Phone storage in My computer in Windows Explorer. In the Phone storage you'll have files in there. I've noticed that when I take videos on the phone they end up in Camera Roll. It's possible that your videos you download end up there or in one of the other folders.

Since I'm in the pro file manager camp it is things like this that I think people misunderstand as to why some form of management is required instead of the half baked idea that exists in WP.

Hi N_LaRUE,

Thanks for your reply. Believe me I tried checking for all other solutions first since I was confident that windows must have provided a way for me to do this. I would have been fine with the ability to access it and move/delete/copy files via PC connection and a 3rd party program if needed. But so far it is not there. I cannot see the files downloaded in metrotube, getthemall, flash video player, kindle and audible on the phone storage area that shows up when I connect to the PC neither do I get an option in their individual settings to change storage to SD Card. Although at least getthemall does provide a way to link to PC via home wifi network and move files to PC, only issue with that is I am effectively downloading the file twice then :p. I think at the very least in the absence of a file manager maybe that setting should be introduced....??.....
Funny thing is I have a Lumia 620 with 8GB internal storage (of which only 7.7-1.9 is accessible to me) so I have installed a 32 GB external SD card, and in my settings I have set ALL photos and videos to be stored to SD card. Even so, my phone storage is constantly running out (sometimes I can't install newer apps because of this) when my SD card has like 25 GB free!!!
Solution needed for sure! :)

Thanks!
 

andraeseus

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what about a maemo5 file manager? there are thousands of people requesting this feature on MS web site. I think "average" is such a subjective term. Non-Techies may not know that at the root of a request like say... saving mp3 attachment to the phone and later finding it in your music player would require a "file manager" of some sort. All they know is they can't find the darn song. average people just want it to work. I guess they would call it functionality. Those of us in the know call it a friggan file manager.

For the average person, a file manager on their phone is far from a must. I can honestly say that there has been maybe been one time I wanted an Android style manager, and I got over it pretty quickly. It is easy sometimes for techies to forgot that the average person doesn't use their phone like us.
 

andraeseus

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just a thought... do you use a closet? how about a dresser drawer? maybe you have a file cabinet at home. Have you ever open a frig and seen that little part at the bottom for vegetables? what about a Trapper Keeper back in school? My point is we ALL can benefit from being able to organize our things some fashion that makes sense to us. Yes, we can simply have MS do a crap job of it for us but if we had the ability I am sure we would do it. After all... look up the definition of an OS. the whole point is so the user can manage data. Not have the OS do it for you and then publish it to you like some SharePoint wiki site that you can't interact with in a way that works for you.

Like I said I'm not up on all things to do with WP. But do app updates get tested like the apps themselves?

Furthermore, why would ability be more important than Security? If that's the case, then surely you would have Android if Microsoft don't allow it?

I really don't get why it's so important to you, unless you are a hacker?
 

tgp

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I once agreed, but disagree now. That is how it should be, but experience has shown us that the average user simply isn't able to cope with that responsibility. Worse, at the end of the day, no matter how at fault a user may have been, it is the IT community that takes the blame. I know more than just a few MS employees who were frustrated with this. WP's though security model is a result of those experiences.

It is common knowledge that the open design of Android causes inherent security issues. WP & iOS are closed, and secure. I guess I have to wonder what actually happens in real life. Are Android device exploited due to their insecure nature? In the real world, would a file manager in WP actually cause security breaches? It could happen, but would it? Are viruses in Android devices a real problem? I'm sure it happens, but I've never heard of an actual case. I'm not necessarily challenging. I'm just curious. I honestly don't know. Maybe I'm way off base here.

I guess I think of it along the same lines as the the FAA occasionally reviewing the rule that allows lap infants on commercial airliners due to the danger. We all know that, theoretically speaking, in an actual crash a lap baby has a lower chance of surviving, not to mention causing danger to other passengers who could be hit by a "flying" infant. But have you ever heard of it happening? Neither have I!. :eek:rly:

My point is that we can take a theoretically possible situation and assume it's a real problem, when sometimes in real life it's rarely, if ever, actually happening, even if it could.

My 2?. I'd like to hear your thoughts. My flame suit is on; fire away!
 

a5cent

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My point is that we can take a theoretically possible situation and assume it's a real problem, when sometimes in real life it's rarely, if ever, actually happening, even if it could.

My 2?. I'd like to hear your thoughts. My flame suit is on; fire away!

lol, lay down your flame suite ;-) not required.

I just did a quick Google search and these were among the first few hits:

Mobile malware exploding, but only for Android
Google removes 32 apps from Google Play over malware concerns | Android Central

Neither article is very objective, but at least we get both sides of the argument. The Apple site is somewhat sensationalist, while Jerry (from Android Central) is overly apologetic and does his best to shift the blame for malware related issues from the OS to its users. While Jerry's points are valid, he is so utterly foolish to believe users will ever be able to take responsibility for their devices security. Like I said, that is the same false hope Microsoft once had for its Windows users, but the last 20 years of experience with malware on Windows hasn't left users any wiser. It will be no different for Android.

Many people in this thread expressed the belief that the existence of a monitored app store makes us 100% safe, but that is simply wrong. That single virus, mentioned in the Android Central article, managed to infect somewhere between two and nine million smartphones before Google was able to purge it from their Play Store. The thing to take away from this is that no matter how good of a Job Microsoft, Google and Apple do with their app stores, some Trojans will inevitably slip through the cracks. At that point, our phones security model is our last line of defence.

Here is another article:

Android Malware Surges With New Banking, SMS Attacks

That should be enough to convince you that malware on Android has long passed the point of being a purely theoretical threat. Money has been stolen from bank accounts. Smartphones have been taken over. Identity theft isn't uncommon.

However, we're still witnessing the very early stages of malware on Android. It's just the beginning and things will get much worse in the next few years. I'm positive Google will be forced to do something radical at some point. The question is only when. It wouldn't surprise me if this is the issue that ultimately causes Google to dump Android and replace it with a mobile version of chrome OS and an Android emulator (similar to BB's approach).

In the real world, would a file manager in WP actually cause security breaches?

Apparently the real issue here is a difficult one to grasp, likely because it is somewhat abstract. I've said it before, but I don't know how to say it any differently, so I'll just say it again:

The problem here isn't the file manager per se. What is problematic are the changes MS would have to make to WP's security model in order to accommodate a file manager app. It's about the security model, not the file manager!
 
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tgp

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lol, lay down your flame suite ;-) not required.

Thanks for the reassurance! I wasn't sure what type of reaction it would cause!

I wasn't necessarily trying to say that malware on Android isn't a problem, but rather asking whether it actually is in the real world. The links you gave certainly point to the possibility. Even so, they still seems to be somewhat isolated cases, and happening only in very specific situations. One of them, for example, was from an article from an Apple site (what else would you expect from them) and another article says how most of the bad apps were Russian language.

And just to show how you can find an article on the Internet to back up whatever you want to believe, check out this and this and this.

That said, the articles you linked and thousands of others to be found online indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Android security model leaves something to be desired. There is no question that most mobile malware is on Android. Part of that has to do with how the system is designed, and part of it I'm sure is due to market share (the same reason most malware found on desktop OS's is on Windows). Keep in mind that Android has around 70%, give or take depending on which article you read, of the market share. However, I still question how big of a problem it actually is in real life.

It was interesting that I didn't find anything indicating that any kind of malware was ever found on WP8. Microsoft must be on to something here. Again, at this point I'm sure the negligible market share plays a part in that. A teen prodigy from India did actually prove that malware is theoretically possible on WP8, and he did it just a couple weeks after WP8 was released.
16-year-old-builds-windows-phone-8-malware-prototype
 
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Thanks for the reassurance! I wasn't sure what type of reaction it would cause!

I wasn't necessarily trying to say that malware on Android isn't a problem, but rather asking whether it actually is in the real world. The links you gave certainly point to the possibility. Even so, they still seems to be somewhat isolated cases, and happening only in very specific situations. One of them, for example, was from an article from an Apple site (what else would you expect from them) and another article says how most of the bad apps were Russian language.

And just to show how you can find an article on the Internet to back up whatever you want to believe, check out this and this and this.

That said, the articles you linked and thousands of others to be found online indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Android security model leaves something to be desired. There is no question that most mobile malware is on Android. Part of that has to do with how the system is designed, and part of it I'm sure is due to market share (the same reason most malware found on desktop OS's is on Windows). Keep in mind that Android has around 70%, give or take depending on which article you read, of the market share. However, I still question how big of a problem it actually is in real life.

It was interesting that I didn't find anything indicating that any kind of malware was ever found on WP8. Microsoft must be on to something here. Again, at this point I'm sure the negligible market share plays a part in that. A teen prodigy from India did actually prove that malware is theoretically possible on WP8, and he did it just a couple weeks after WP8 was released.
16-year-old-builds-windows-phone-8-malware-prototype

Microsoft has made it easy for themselves. Only certain code can be used for malicious activity. Any code that qualifies for malicious activity gets categorized under a certain permission group. In order to use the code, they need to claim rights to that permission for the app package.

So as Microsoft gets these thousands of app submission, the apps tell Microsoft exactly which ones need to be checked. If you app requires no permissions, then there isn't anything it can possibly do to be malicious in terms of functionality. Anything that needs permission to access your contacts though, for example, will be sure to set a red flag during submission so that the code gets checked thoroughly.

Summary: Microsoft knows a lot about an app's malware potential before they even look a the source code. It let's them really focus on the important code, and it makes sure no app can slip by unnoticed.

Hope this helped! :)
 

a5cent

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I wasn't necessarily trying to say that malware on Android isn't a problem, but rather asking whether it actually is in the real world. <snipped> However, I still question how big of a problem it actually is in real life.
Well, I would ask you at what point a malware problem on Android (which you agree exists) becomes a problem in the real world? What is your yard stick?

Identity theft is recorded millions of times a year, primarily occurring through Android. Millions of dollars have been stolen through text messaging. To my mind, the fact that the later issue is primarily a Russian problem doesn't make it any less relevant to the discussion of security on Android, but you seem to think otherwise and I'm not sure why.

And just to show how you can find an article on the Internet to back up whatever you want to believe, check out this and this and this.
Absolutely! IMHO all those articles are primarily click bait! Not because they are wrong, but because any computer system can be infected. The fact that this is also true of iOS doesn't make iOS worse or better than any other mobile OS. Ultimately, we can't even fully trust security companies, because it is in their best interest to exaggerate the malware threat potential. So, yes, the media exaggerates the danger.

Still, there is a huge gap between what security companies world wide are reporting (hundreds of new Android viruses monthly, millions of security breaches annualy) and the idea that malware doesn't affect us in the real world. There certainly is a gap between coverage and the actual threat potential, but IMHO it isn't that large.

On a side note: security companies really have no choice but to claim "the world is ending". It's almost the only way you can get anybody's attention these days. If they were to approach this entirely rationally, calmly and by the numbers, nobody would give a damn or even listen until half the U.S. population's bank accounts were emptied. Of course, society would then blame the IT industry for not having warned anyone adequately. That's just human nature.

It was interesting that I didn't find anything indicating that any kind of malware was ever found on WP8# Microsoft must be on to something here# Again, at this point I'm sure the negligible market share plays a part in that..
Yes, WP is definitely "protected" by its market share, just as the Mac once was. Strictly speaking, WP has yet to prove itself under fire.

But also consider this: a security breach occurs in two stages, the infection and the actual attack. Infecting an Android device isn't much easier than infecting an iOS or WP device (a difficult feat on any platform). The real differences are in the attack opportunities offered by Android, once successfully infected. The Android philosophy, that the users software should be able to do anything on the users device, is a malware writers wet dream. For that reason alone, Android will remain the primary target for malware, even if iOS and WP were to catch up market share wise.

My point is that while market share is a very important factor, it isn't the only one that determines which platform gets targeted.

If you app requires no permissions, then there isn't anything it can possibly do to be malicious in terms of functionality. Anything that needs permission to access your contacts though, for example, will be sure to set a red flag during submission so that the code gets checked thoroughly.

While true, we shouldn't take that as being a perfect line of defence. Android supports the exact same mechanisms, yet some malware still manages to get through the cracks. It will be no different for WP should it become a more interesting target. The difference between WP and Android is not so much in the permissions system itself, but what those permissions actually allow an app to do once granted.
 
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andraeseus

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The best way to protect a computer and keep it secure is to turn it off and un plug it. Do not let users anywhere near it... that wouldn't be very functional though.
 

Andre o Botelho

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Microsoft has made it easy for themselves. Only certain code can be used for malicious activity. Any code that qualifies for malicious activity gets categorized under a certain permission group. In order to use the code, they need to claim rights to that permission for the app package.

So as Microsoft gets these thousands of app submission, the apps tell Microsoft exactly which ones need to be checked. If you app requires no permissions, then there isn't anything it can possibly do to be malicious in terms of functionality. Anything that needs permission to access your contacts though, for example, will be sure to set a red flag during submission so that the code gets checked thoroughly.

Summary: Microsoft knows a lot about an app's malware potential before they even look a the source code. It let's them really focus on the important code, and it makes sure no app can slip by unnoticed.

Hope this helped! :)
The question here is not clear, malware are apps and need to execute on the system to infect or make any other stuff. wp8 does not let the app self modify its code so problem would be let app execute apps outside the local storage, even if it can access and modify files on a shared filesystem it can't infect it(it will not execute anywhere), Google too knew what the apps needed to work but where lazy to test it before publishing on store(or coudn't test it properly), it is not system security proplem, every app in all mobile app stores can do only what the user and system creator lets it do(excluding exploits).
 

diktea

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[TIP]['The best way to protect a computer and keep it secure is to turn it off and un plug it. Do not let users anywhere near it... that wouldn't be very functional though."[/TIP]

I like this idea - let us not buy any phone... and no security threat from malware or virus. Though physical threat including stealing a phone is still in play. let us all get back to the Nokia 1100. just joking

OK one way or the other security breach will come. WP8 is still most secure but how long..... will they have to restrict all the functions when loopholes come?????

Some argued that by File explorer enabled -access will be unrestricted and so easy breakin..... Are not PDF apps or music player apps accessing our files??? otherwise how will it read or play??????

Why cant microsoft have a built in File Explorer (instead of third party app which will eventually come) and make the security better as they know exactly the details of the OS.
The third party apps need not access the files.... only a builtin microsoft file explorer... the other apps can run the files by a link (not internet linking anyway which would burn data services) just as it is working now.....

So many replys and threads discusses on 'WHAT THE PROBLEM IS' i think it is time to 'FIND SOLUTIONS' to this problem, any bright ideas????

I dont know the whole lot of things going on but i do know this.... file explorer missing i feel irritated when i could not find files transferred by bluetooth or some files i downloaded (mostly videos and mp3)
 

aondee

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its also my problem, really need a file manager, in need, i want my phone help some of my work as they ever did before this WP came, i usually work on my computer and transfer the file to my phone, then i can file some additional apps to edit, modify or at least to display it on my phone- but now, seem all function is impossible on this WP ;(

one more thing, abt skydrive, my phone has internet connection, but each time i access, mean i need to pay for each byte of upload/download instead of i can just copy and past the files to my phone on my computer!
 

Huime

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actually the skydrive app is the thing for file manager functionality. In fact it somewhat serve the purpose now. However, all those anti competition bull**** made MS reluctant to make a bundle with all WP/W8 product family. Made it a half *** effort so far.
 

vish2801

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Microsoft has made it easy for themselves. Only certain code can be used for malicious activity. Any code that qualifies for malicious activity gets categorized under a certain permission group. In order to use the code, they need to claim rights to that permission for the app package.

So as Microsoft gets these thousands of app submission, the apps tell Microsoft exactly which ones need to be checked. If you app requires no permissions, then there isn't anything it can possibly do to be malicious in terms of functionality. Anything that needs permission to access your contacts though, for example, will be sure to set a red flag during submission so that the code gets checked thoroughly.

Summary: Microsoft knows a lot about an app's malware potential before they even look a the source code. It let's them really focus on the important code, and it makes sure no app can slip by unnoticed.

Hope this helped! :)

But clearly made difficult for a lot of users, my friend just called me,he asked me from where he can get access of some documents he put on his SDcard ? I said you can't there's no file manager in wp.He was stunned that he never thought a 24k ph won't let him to do that, I said I told you about limitations, he was attracted because of the UI and fluidity but now he's facing issues. He said yar I should have bought Android, this ph is crap. He's gonna sell his ph and get new Android ph. This is the reality.
I own Android from past 1 year and I never ever had virus in my nexus 4. The prob is people here overestimated so called security model of MS. MS has closed the OS totally. This thing needs to be opened little bit.
 

mpt15

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But clearly made difficult for a lot of users, my friend just called me,he asked me from where he can get access of some documents he put on his SDcard ? I said you can't there's no file manager in wp.He was stunned that he never thought a 24k ph won't let him to do that, I said I told you about limitations, he was attracted because of the UI and fluidity but now he's facing issues. He said yar I should have bought Android, this ph is crap. He's gonna sell his ph and get new Android ph. This is the reality.
I own Android from past 1 year and I never ever had virus in my nexus 4. The prob is people here overestimated so called security model of MS. MS has closed the OS totally. This thing needs to be opened little bit.

Is it really all that bad? If your friend put his documents on SkyDrive then he can access it from his phone, make changes on the go, and access it on any computer. I find the SkyDrive integration very useful.
 

N_LaRUE

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Is it really all that bad? If your friend put his documents on SkyDrive then he can access it from his phone, make changes on the go, and access it on any computer. I find the SkyDrive integration very useful.

I've been trying to stay off this thread for some time but sometimes you need to enlighten people.

Not everyone has unlimited data and access to WiFi. This is the reason why people want some way to access files on their phone. Not only is it the documents issue but any file. It is one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me with WP that I hope gets fixed somehow. I don't know the best way to to implement some form of file manger system but it's something that I hope gets done. Skydrive is a great idea but if you can't use it all the time or if you're limited to the files you can use then I don't see the advantage.
 
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