Will Windows Phone continue to avoid to make a File Manager?

[vish2801]

You obviously do not understand security. There is a reason an apps can only access their own files. If one app stores personal data or data that needs to be protected, do you want other apps to have access to that data? If Microsoft did what you want them to do, it would be easy for malicious apps to be created and have access to data they aren't supposed to.

You will probably think: "All apps must be certified and checked by Microsoft first so they can just look for malicious code to prevent that". But no. Microsoft doesn't need to worry about checking this stuff in their apps because of how they designed it. It's designed like this for security.

Who the hell says anything about app's own data or app saving anything feom our personal data ??? I'm talking about our personal files...And I'm not saying that MS should let 3rd party to make file manager, they can make an exclusion and develop file manager which can access our personal files. And again, such kind of security restricts features which should never be pardoned, infact your other part of post makes sense, MS must make a filter or so to restrict malicious apps instead of not giving features to users....Seriously, I know many people who don't buy wp because of this only restriction, many sold their windows phone with swearing not to buy this OS again....

 

[Squachy]

Why don't they do it the other way around then?
If the file manager itself would compromise security because of the allowance of data of any kind to access it, why don't they create a file manager 'hub' where you get to choose which apps you want to freely access it?
give it three options:
-Secure access (like it is now)
-Limited access (pick and choose the apps you want to allow access...if you have a long app list....you're going through this list a long time)
-Full access (well just open it up and if there are consequences...well...sucks to be you)
Kind of like an app firewall I suppose.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I have to admit that I have not read the other four pages on this thread so not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not. Just reading this page I think what is being missed here by a lot of people is this.


We are already allowed access to personal files on the phone when attached to a computer. What a file manager on the phone would allow you to do is access those same folders. That's all anyone really wants when they talk about a file manager. Since we already have that access when attached to a computer I don't see a reason why this would be impossible to impliment on the phone. As for access to those folders via an app, that's something that can be done via an update to the app. It's really not that hard is it? In what way is that different than say using Skydrive?

 

[a5cent]

We are already allowed access to personal files on the phone when attached to a computer. What a file manager on the phone would allow you to do is access those same folders. That's all anyone really wants when they talk about a file manager.

No, this is not all anyone really wants. A file manager which does only that fails to address one of the most common issues people raise. It was discussed a few posts back.

 

[N_LaRUE]

No, this is not all anyone really wants. A file manager which does only that fails to address one of the most common issues people raise. It was discussed a few posts back.

Um you obviouisly didn't read my entire post. I did state that apps should have access to the same folders as well via an update. My point was that having access to those five folders that exist (though I believe you can make more) should be pretty straight forward and I don't see how it would breach any security on WP. I also don't see how having access to those folders turns WP into Android either. The arguments presented in this thread against having access to file folders via some type of file manage and apps are bogus. Symbian allowed access to folders for years before Android did.

I know someone has gone on about phone security if the OS but I am at a loss to understand what breaches of security this would cause since we can access these files already when attached to a computer. I do find it sad that if the OS is that vulnerable to attacks by just allowing someone access to persoal folders I really wonder if I'm on the right platform then.

Not having access to folders is a limitation and I know many people on Apple who have the exact same issues as people on WP and really hate it too. So it's not just us who are finding this type of limitation frustrating. Apple does what it wants, doesn't mean WP should be like Apple. There no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds.

Lastly if accessing folders on the phone is a security issue, then so should accessing Skydrive because it's pretty much the same thing isn't it? All Skydrive is a file storage in the cloud that you can access via your phone. I don't see the difference.

 

[a5cent]

Um you obviously didn't read my entire post.

I did. You just failed to understand mine.

You are suggesting the same solution napocensis already had, and I had already explained why that isn't enough, specifically, it doesn't allow us to attach any file stored on our smartphone to an e-mail (that is just one example). I wont rehash the details again here.

and I don't see how it would breach any security on WP.

Obviously. That is also why this topic isn't reasonably discussed with the militant pro file manager crowd, whom you share that lack of knowledge with.

If I could sum it all up for you in a short post I would, but I don't poses such miraculous teaching skills. Maybe some other developer does?

That those people who develop software for a living all come down on the same side of this argument should be telling, but that is apparently lost on many.

 

[vish2801]

Um you obviouisly didn't read my entire post. I did state that apps should have access to the same folders as well via an update. My point was that having access to those five folders that exist (though I believe you can make more) should be pretty straight forward and I don't see how it would breach any security on WP. I also don't see how having access to those folders turns WP into Android either. The arguments presented in this thread against having access to file folders via some type of file manage and apps are bogus. Symbian allowed access to folders for years before Android did.

I know someone has gone on about phone security if the OS but I am at a loss to understand what breaches of security this would cause since we can access these files already when attached to a computer. I do find it sad that if the OS is that vulnerable to attacks by just allowing someone access to persoal folders I really wonder if I'm on the right platform then.

Not having access to folders is a limitation and I know many people on Apple who have the exact same issues as people on WP and really hate it too. So it's not just us who are finding this type of limitation frustrating. Apple does what it wants, doesn't mean WP should be like Apple. There no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds.

Lastly if accessing folders on the phone is a security issue, then so should accessing Skydrive because it's pretty much the same thing isn't it? All Skydrive is a file storage in the cloud that you can access via your phone. I don't see the difference.

I've been saying this from beginning. I just read above post and if it's really so called sensitive issue of breaching security then not you and me,even Nokia should start considering that whether they are on right track or not. I always saw Nokia as open platform by playing with Symbian and maemo a lot and Nokia still trying very hard to bring the fixes and middle solutions like ringtone Maker, storage check to the platform for users very fast. I hope when unification of wp,winrt,win8 happens in blue update we can see some openness on wp.Or somebody jailbreak it like iOS, this is one of the reason why iPhone is in high demand.

 

[N_LaRUE]

I did. You just failed to understand mine.

You are suggesting the same solution napocensis already had, and I had already explained why that isn't enough, specifically, it doesn't allow us to attach any file stored on our smartphone to an e-mail (that is just one example). I wont rehash the details again here.



Obviously. That is also why this topic isn't reasonably discussed with the militant pro file manager crowd, whom you share that lack of knowledge with.

If I could sum it all up for you in a short post I would, but I don't poses such miraculous teaching skills. Maybe some other developer does?

That those people who develop software for a living all come down on the same side of this argument should be telling, but that is apparently lost on many.

Not a big fan of the term 'militant' used for people who are passionate about something. I find that term used to give the impression that people are overly agressive and used to stop conversation.

I want the same features you appear to want, which for some reason isn't getting across. I want a full acces to the files on the phone to share from, send email attachments etc. This only makes sense.

I went to the Feature Suggestion site for Windows Phone 8, I suggest to those who haven't gone already please do so: Feature Suggestions: Hot (27303 ideas)

The file manager has the second largest amound of votes for it which means people want it as a feature. It isn't some niche crowd.

Next I searched for the security problems involved with a file manager. Maybe you can post a link so that people can read for themeselves if there is a site somewhere? I couldn't seem to find one. The only issue I could see is some developer doing something corrupt with your personal files.

Keep in mind I don't want access to system files and it would appear neither does anyone else, I just want personal flies. I don't see a reason why Ithis can't be done.

 

[ohgood]

Not a big fan of the term 'militant' used for people who are passionate about something. I find that term used to give the impression that people are overly agressive and used to stop conversation.

I want the same features you appear to want, which for some reason isn't getting across. I want a full acces to the files on the phone to share from, send email attachments etc. This only makes sense.

I went to the Feature Suggestion site for Windows Phone 8, I suggest to those who haven't gone already please do so: Feature Suggestions: Hot (27303 ideas)

The file manager has the second largest amound of votes for it which means people want it as a feature. It isn't some niche crowd.

Next I searched for the security problems involved with a file manager. Maybe you can post a link so that people can read for themeselves if there is a site somewhere? I couldn't seem to find one. The only issue I could see is some developer doing something corrupt with your personal files.

Keep in mind I don't want access to system files and it would appear neither does anyone else, I just want personal flies. I don't see a reason why Ithis can't be done.

the linked portion has 31 current pages and almost 30000 requests. voicing your wishes here is only shouted down, save your time and exercise your wants _there_ , where it has support and makes a difference.

 

[N_LaRUE]

the linked portion has 31 current pages and almost 30000 requests. voicing your wishes here is only shouted down, save your time and exercise your wants _there_ , where it has support and makes a difference.

I added my votes to the File Explorer request. It's on the first page.

I have done some more research regarding iOS status on the file management side of things and found out there are a few apps out there that help with this situation. They're not perfect but I think for most people it would provide a solution for most things. If we can at least have something similar it would be nice.

 

[a5cent]

the linked portion has 31 current pages and almost 30000 requests. voicing your wishes here is only shouted down, save your time and exercise your wants _there_ , where it has support and makes a difference.

C'mon. Are you really that dense? It really should be obvious by now that N_LaRUE and I (and probably most people in the pro file manager camp) all have the exact same wishes! I actually want even more than you guys do, but most don't get it.

It's not the wishes I'm opposed to. I am opposed to mental inflexibility, the obvious lack of interest or inability to separate the familiar (file manager) from the actual requirements and the apparent prioritization of ignorant yelling over a desire to learn and understand.

Despite what you assume, even 30'000 votes for a file manager on uservoice won't get you one... at least not something I would consider worthy of being called one.

Not a big fan of the term 'militant' used for people who are passionate about something. I find that term used to give the impression that people are overly aggressive and used to stop conversation.

TBH I'm not a fan either, but from my point of view that is what it comes across as. As such, I see no reason to waste more time explaining things to people that aren't interested (not referring to you). Right now I've got to run, but I'l get back to the rest of your post in a few hours.

 

[ohgood]

C'mon. Are you really that dense? It really should be obvious by now that N_LaRUE and I (and probably most people in the pro file manager camp) all have the exact same wishes! I actually want even more than you guys do, but most don't get it.

It's not the wishes I'm opposed to. I am opposed to mental inflexibility, the obvious lack of interest or inability to separate the familiar (file manager) from the actual requirements and the apparent prioritization of ignorant yelling over a desire to learn and understand.

Despite what you assume, even 30'000 votes for a file manager on uservoice won't get you one... at least not something I would consider worthy of being called one.



TBH I'm not a fan either, but from my point of view that is what it comes across as. As such, I see no reason to waste more time explaining things to people that aren't interested (not referring to you). Right now I've got to run, but I'l get back to the rest of your post in a few hours.

well, ooooook. enjoy.

 

[OzRob]

I know someone has gone on about phone security if the OS but I am at a loss to understand what breaches of security this would cause since we can access these files already when attached to a computer.

A malicious app (or hacked one) on the phone can't access your PC to then access files on the phone. So having access to certain files via your PC poses no security risk (unless you have some malicious code or virus on your PC, but that's an entirely different kettle of fish).

I do find it sad that if the OS is that vulnerable to attacks by just allowing someone access to persoal folders I really wonder if I'm on the right platform then.

It's not about allowing access to personal folders, it's about how file access and control has been implemented within the OS. WP8 has not been built for general file access. So it's not a simple matter of "giving access". It's a question of adding systems and APIs to the platform to allow secure shared file management. This will add complexity and overheads to the OS. Adding complexity and overheads generally has one of two consequences - lag in OS or the need for more powerful hardware. This pretty much counts against WP8s strongest selling points - its smoothness and fluid UI, even on low ends handsets. So it's NOT simply a matter of flicking a couple of switches and giving everyone access their files. MS would need to include a much more sophisticated low-level file handling system in the OS.

Not having access to folders is a limitation and I know many people on Apple who have the exact same issues as people on WP and really hate it too. So it's not just us who are finding this type of limitation frustrating. Apple does what it wants, doesn't mean WP should be like Apple. There no reason why we can't have the best of both worlds.

Actually, there is a reason. Both Apple and Microsoft have put an emphasis on keeping their respective phone OSs light, fast and secure. One could argue that Microsoft has gone even further down this path than Apple. Once you start embedding general computing functions in an OS, it starts to become more like a general computing OS and less like a dedicated phone OS. More like...like...Android.

 

[a5cent]

The file manager has the second largest amount of votes for it which means people want it as a feature. It isn't some niche crowd.

Okay, I'll repeat it again: People are misusing the term "file manager" to express a need for a certain set of requirements in the form of a solution. When questioned what that solution actually implies we are usually confronted with either one of these two scenarios:

• one that is nowhere close to solving all the issues we have with WP's very limited file access capabilities (because they never thought about the actual requirements).
• one that would completely circumvent/bypass/destroy/render-useless WP's current security model (as your suggestions would).

The former isn't interesting, while the later is theoretically possible, but extremely unlikely. No amount of votes on uservoice will make it any more likely.

Next I searched for the security problems involved with a file manager. Maybe you can post a link so that people can read for themselves if there is a site somewhere? I couldn't seem to find one. The only issue I could see is some developer doing something corrupt with your personal files. in mind I don't want access to system files and it would appear neither does anyone else, I just want personal flies. I don't see a reason why this can't be done.

I wish I could provide a URL to a simple and authoritative page on that subject. I would have done so long ago. I'm not aware of any either, at least nothing specific enough to be directly applicable to WP.

The only approach I can think of (beyond sending people to advanced computer science classes) would be to pose questions about how you imagine certain aspects of your proposed "file manager" solution would function, obviously with the intent of shedding light on some areas where such a solution would fall apart (a.k.a increase the attack surface). As always with these types of things, the devil is in the details.

I'd start by posing the question how you imagine a "file manager" app would differentiate between system files and "everything else" and if users could use the "file manager" to read, write and delete files that fall under the "everything else" category.

I have done some more research regarding iOS status on the file management side of things and found out there are a few apps out there that help with this situation. They're not perfect but I think for most people it would provide a solution for most things.

Although I don't know what you are referring to (URL?), I'd bet any such iOS alternative is likely to be a better indicator of what an eventual solution might look like for WP... surely it is a much better indicator than an Android or Windows like file manager. Like I've always said, there are a lot of potential solutions to any of these file access related issues.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Although I don't know what you are referring to (URL?), I'd bet any such iOS alternative is likely to be a better indicator of what an eventual solution might look like for WP... surely it is a much better indicator than an Android or Windows like file manager. Like I've always said, there are a lot of potential solutions to any of these file access related issues.

Here is one example of what I'm talking about, if you do a google search on iOS File Manager you'll come across more. Cult of Mac ? Files App Is A Beautifully Designed File Manager For iOS [Review]

I guess I'll just leave it there. I am disappointed by the inability of access pesonal files on the phone (not including song/video and photos here). Not sure what terminology to use for that anymore as it would appear 'file manager' is incorrect. Simply for me I would just like to use files from a specific set of folders which I can use on my phone in apps (I guess for me the biggest one is PDFs and other files that are not 'standard' on WP) and transfer between my PC and phone or via Bluetooth without the need for a cloud drive. That's all I want.

 

[chunky2055]

A file manager HUB from Microsoft itself will be able to solve the problem. No need to provide other apps with this access ( but hey whats app have access to your photos but not vids( that's strange lol)... isnt it). The idea of apps having access to there own data is not bad at all... but this should not put limitations on the basic functionality of a "Smart Phone".

 

[a5cent]

Here is one example of what I'm talking about, <snipped>.

Hmm... It sounds like that "iOS file manager" app works only for a predetermined set of file types. Apparently, it is also restricted to accessing only it's own private file storage space, from where it can send or receive files only through a predetermined set of services (usb, dropbox, skydrive, etc). As far as I can tell, that app also wouldn't help us attach an arbitrary file, such as a PDF file, to an e-mail.

I certainly wouldn't call that a "file manager" app. That type of solution is what we would get stuck with if Microsoft does absolutely nothing. I do hope Microsoft does more then nothing.

 

[N_LaRUE]

Hmm... It sounds like that "iOS file manager" app works only for a predetermined set of file types. Apparently, it is also restricted to accessing only it's own private file storage space, from where it can send or receive files only through a predetermined set of services (usb, dropbox, skydrive, etc). As far as I can tell, that app also wouldn't help us attach an arbitrary file, such as a PDF file, to an e-mail.

I certainly wouldn't call that a "file manager" app. That type of solution is what we would get stuck with if Microsoft does absolutely nothing. I do hope Microsoft does more then nothing.

I did state there are others. That was but one. I believe some others may be more powerful (cost more too) but use similar methods. I would personally like to avoid this type of solution.

 

[chris mostert]

Quote; "There's more to this world than your own opinions" that's for sure, and yours is not mine. My job totally depends on File manager as I have on my older Omnia So I am very disappointed finding my new Nokia Lumia does not have it.

 

[Dave Blake]

Quote; "There's more to this world than your own opinions" that's for sure, and yours is not mine. My job totally depends on File manager as I have on my older Omnia So I am very disappointed finding my new Nokia Lumia does not have it.

What do you do at your job that requires a file manager? If you don't mind me asking. There might be other options.