04-28-2015 07:41 AM
156 12345 ...
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  1. DCTF's Avatar
    You're still stuck in this mode of thinking that the menu stack icon was ever an Android thing or an iOS thing. It's ubiquitous, and it ran through tons of software and website designs before it hit any phone OS. Sure, it doesn't need to be on every single thing. I don't know why people are crowing about Android's app store or the YouTube app; for what reason would you need a menu key in places like those? It doesn't matter if Win has it and the others move away. All that matters is that you can use the phone and get to the things you want to do, which, by the way, WP8.1 was not very good at doing. And it crashed, many times a day, doing simple things like browsing a long news article. If they don't at the very least fix up the visual side to allow tighter design then I'll be away right behind you to one of their competitors, because I've put in too many years hoping for something better. To my eyes, the signs are good.

    W8 had the right idea about unifying the phone/tablet/desktop OSs, but they made the mistake of letting them stagger forward alongside each other and they retained too many vestigial features from previous versions. That's the big mistake they're trying to rectify this time, by making these OSs complete on launch and with as little legacy detail as possible. The changes have to be sudden and major so that we don't have a Frankenstein's monster again.
    04-19-2015 10:26 AM
  2. Keith Wallace's Avatar
    I care little about menus. However, the one thing I hate is the term "hamburger menu." It's such a silly name, and it's kind of annoying to hear/read.
    HeyCori and TheJoester09 like this.
    04-19-2015 10:40 AM
  3. ep1's Avatar
    what are hamburger menu
    04-19-2015 10:42 AM
  4. Slovenix's Avatar
    You're still stuck in this mode of thinking that the menu stack icon was ever an Android thing or an iOS thing. It's ubiquitous, and it ran through tons of software and website designs before it hit any phone OS. Sure, it doesn't need to be on every single thing. I don't know why people are crowing about Android's app store or the YouTube app; for what reason would you need a menu key in places like those? It doesn't matter if Win has it and the others move away. All that matters is that you can use the phone and get to the things you want to do, which, by the way, WP8.1 was not very good at doing. And it crashed, many times a day, doing simple things like browsing a long news article. If they don't at the very least fix up the visual side to allow tighter design then I'll be away right behind you to one of their competitors, because I've put in too many years hoping for something better. To my eyes, the signs are good.

    W8 had the right idea about unifying the phone/tablet/desktop OSs, but they made the mistake of letting them stagger forward alongside each other and they retained too many vestigial features from previous versions. That's the big mistake they're trying to rectify this time, by making these OSs complete on launch and with as little legacy detail as possible. The changes have to be sudden and major so that we don't have a Frankenstein's monster again.
    I know that.. Every single piece of it. And I own both Android and WP.. There was a reason I ever bothered to get a WP.. Now it's gone because it's like going back and not forward. And Android uses it's hamburger way better, design got far better with Lolipop, and you know what, I can use Launchers for one hand use by swiping from the corners to open actions lol. Not that I care about one hand use, but when you need it, it's there. And honestly almost no one cares about universal apps because they don't use PCs that way. And as an Industrial designer I'm not taught to just copy things, but to make them better. Where did all the talent go??
    04-19-2015 11:01 AM
  5. Slovenix's Avatar
    Plus people will be like "So it looks like an Android, but without apps" .. Seriously no one (99%) cares about your security and stealing Google and nonsense like that, I couldn't care less. People care about what looks nice and what works.
    04-19-2015 11:04 AM
  6. ajayden's Avatar
    I know that.. Every single piece of it. And I own both Android and WP.. There was a reason I ever bothered to get a WP.. Now it's gone because it's like going back and not forward. And Android uses it's hamburger way better, design got far better with Lolipop, and you know what, I can use Launchers for one hand use by swiping from the corners to open actions lol. Not that I care about one hand use, but when you need it, it's there. And honestly almost no one cares about universal apps because they don't use PCs that way. And as an Industrial designer I'm not taught to just copy things, but to make them better. Where did all the talent go??
    I think its still early days to talk about the UI. I can change by September or October.
    04-19-2015 11:06 AM
  7. Slovenix's Avatar
    I think its still early days to talk about the UI. I can change by September or October.
    I actually really really believe that they are focusing on the inside and not the looks just yet :) but I beg them to be creative. Only thing that will save Windows
    FAHMI BASSEM likes this.
    04-19-2015 11:11 AM
  8. Slovenix's Avatar
    I love the changes on Windows 10 for Desktop/Modern, but Windows phone version needs more work, at least put in on pair in every single direction like colors, wallpapers, UI elements, transparency, etc :)
    FAHMI BASSEM and rollindice like this.
    04-19-2015 11:23 AM
  9. Ten Four's Avatar
    One of the things that attracted me to WP is to have something different, attractive, and interesting, and because I loved the way the interface worked. So far it looks like Windows 10 is going to continue the trend of moving away from all the things that attracted me to WP in the first place, making the value proposition less for me. I'm not knee-jerk opposed to hamburger menus, but obviously there is a lot of blather being leaked and pushed to justify the marketing decision to make WP more like Android and iOS. You can come up with "facts" and "studies" to support almost anything. It's how you end up with products like New Coke that flop, and why most cars on the road have no personality and look like every other car. It's how you end up with the stupid ribbons interface in Office that gets worse and worse with each iteration, IMHO. I have worked professionally with Office since it existed, and it gets harder to use, not easier, despite all the focus groups I'm sure they use. I hope Windows 10 isn't headed down the same path.
    04-19-2015 11:29 AM
  10. fatclue_98's Avatar
    It's just a phone guys and gals. Look what happens when people take it too far:

    Fight over Apple iPhone 6 vs. Samsung Galaxy S6 leads to drunken brawl, stabbing
    HeyCori likes this.
    04-19-2015 11:31 AM
  11. pericle's Avatar
    Oh man, the amount of hate in the community against the hamburger button is just hilarious.

    I personally don't see why there is so much resistance to this. Even buttons on the top left can be reached with one finger by simply sliding the phone a little downwards in your palm.
    04-19-2015 11:32 AM
  12. Slovenix's Avatar
    Who ever invented Modern UI on Windows Phone should be proud. I shall find out later. I should get back to work now :D
    04-19-2015 11:34 AM
  13. Slovenix's Avatar
    Of course its just phones, but phones and design are my passion :)
    04-19-2015 11:35 AM
  14. Slovenix's Avatar
    No it's not hate, at least from me, It's called looking for something new and better, thats my moto.
    FAHMI BASSEM likes this.
    04-19-2015 11:36 AM
  15. Slovenix's Avatar
    This.
    04-19-2015 11:37 AM
  16. Ma Rio's Avatar
    I'm not wasting anymore of my life on this. I've said what I had to say, and I still stand by it. Hamburgers are bad, Microsoft is stupid for playin' catch-up, and bad solutions are bad.
    Most of your are defending MS not because you really like the idea of a hamburger menu (nobody likes it because it's really bad), but because you feel the need to defend them because you use their products. This thread won't go anywhere from here. We can only wait and see what will happen, but it's pretty obvious that we'll be forced to use hamburger menus whether we like it or not. However, some will easily accept it and not think too much about it, and some will realise what is sacrificed in order to make place for the hamburger.

    I'm sad it will go this way. I really thought Microsoft was different.
    Slovenix, Yazen and Kram Sacul like this.
    04-19-2015 12:22 PM
  17. slickxsparkie's Avatar
    I like the hamburgers. Heck I even like the dots. But I'm adaptive and I can get used to stuff fairly easily. Whether it's either one, I'll know how to use my phone by the end of the day. I'll go read your arguments now.
    fatclue_98 and Laura Knotek like this.
    04-19-2015 12:46 PM
  18. fatclue_98's Avatar
    I like the hamburgers. Heck I even like the dots. But I'm adaptive and I can get used to stuff fairly easily. Whether it's either one, I'll know how to use my phone by the end of the day. I'll go read your arguments now.
    Really, what's so hard about that?

    Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-19-2015 01:16 PM
  19. Yazen's Avatar
    Here is why Microsoft wants hamburger menus in Windows 10 for phone | Windows Central

    Just yesterday, most of you were complaining about HAMBURGERs, and now you accept it??

    BTW here's a story:
    I bought Lumia 720 two years ago, I switched from Symbian so the most confusing part was the start screen, one page instead of 6, vertical instead of horizontal + it's something new different, IOS nor Android has it, so why not killing live tiles, bring the stupid simple icons so that IOS users won't be confused when switch.

    being unique, being special, is not an issue, Ellipses, live tiles are inventions.

    this is my opinion: I hate Hamburgers, the new outlook UI is terrible, 4.3inches killed my thumb, what would I do with 5.0!

    oh! Lumia 1520 users, no body cares about you.
    It is not about being different for the sake of being different, rather being the same for the sake of being the same.
    For instance, why change black backgrounds to gray? What UI advantage does this give Lumia owners, especially ones with AMOLED displays?

    Considering a BlackBerry Passport, but I will probably opt for an Xperia instead. Hell, not renewing Xbox services either. Nothing good about Windows Phone except for Nokia and Metro.
    04-19-2015 01:19 PM
  20. HeyCori's Avatar
    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that WP apps are best when they use all three methods. I know a lot of people dislike the OneDrive app but I think it's great from a usability standpoint. Hamburger menu for the things I don't need immediate access too. Quick metro style swipes to change folders. Action buttons at the bottom.

    I honestly hope more universal apps follow that design. I don't believe in an all or nothing approach, where all your functionality is either at the bottom or top. And I think as apps grow in features it's going to be a lot harder to fit everything at the bottom or access everything with a quick swipe.

    For example, when I open the Xbox Music app, I have to swipe twice just to get to my collection. Why? Why couldn't a "collection" button be at the bottom with the other quick actions? What do I gain by all that swipe swipe swiping? Why is the settings link at the bottom? Why does it need to take up viable space at the bottom?

    I think Xbox Music could benefit from a more OneDrive like design. And vice versa, OneDrive would look a lot better if it stole a little from Xbox Music. Bigger more unique fonts for one. OneDrive is high functionality with little design and Xbox Music is all design with gimped functionality. There needs to be a way to meet in the middle.

    Right now a lot of apps are not meeting in the middle between functionality and design. But again, as many have said, we're still a very, very long way before Windows 10 is done and out.
    04-19-2015 01:26 PM
  21. Joshwin's Avatar
    people use action center more often than the hamburger menu which also requires two hands in bigger screens.So why the F**k are you complaining about hamburger menu alone?.Android is the largest mobile phone OS in the world but it has nothing but full of hamburger menus but no one is whining about it there, perhaps that is the reason why android is more matured.Here we have no decent apps and many features are still lacking yet we are whining about rotten hamburger menu. Just stop whining and concentrate more on new features rather than getting stuck on silly hamburger menu. because of this sh**ty fuss sure MS will get distracted and not be able to bring more features to WP10 then again you guys will cry about less features on wp10. Sure you wont be using hamburger 24hours a day..why not use the other hand just for a sec just like you use for bringing down the action center? for you one hand wankers out there,try using both hands, then you will find out totally new pleasure so please sod this rotten hamburger menu, we have had enough of it. concentrate more on what new features we can get on wp10 and give good feedbacks on it.
    Last edited by Joshwin; 04-20-2015 at 05:18 AM.
    04-19-2015 01:32 PM
  22. Karan Madhyani's Avatar
    Cant the ham burger menu be accesed by swiping from the left side of the screen/?

    Is it only me or m i missing something?
    04-19-2015 01:48 PM
  23. Slovenix's Avatar
    Cant the ham burger menu be accesed by swiping from the left side of the screen/?

    Is it only me or m i missing something?
    Yes on Android
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    04-19-2015 01:59 PM
  24. Slovenix's Avatar
    Don't worry I'm used to Hamburger, it's just not very cool in the way Microsoft uses it in some apps. I have never complained about it on Android, funny thing is that I was relieved when I started using WP, with this "new method" and using an Android again started to be annoying when I couldn't do things as fast as on WP.. That tells something uh??
    04-19-2015 02:08 PM
  25. Don Geronimo's Avatar
    For a lack of better words, I think too many people are getting their metaphorical undergarments in a bunch when complaining about the hamburger menu. I'm not happy about the UI changes going on in the Technical Preview either, but I'm willing to see what Microsoft is planning to do with the final product and give as much information, opinion, and feedback as I can to make sure the final product is a usable system in my eyes.

    However, I think people are forgetting that UX guidelines are just that; guidelines. From a consistency standpoint, it makes sense to me to go about this route in the future with the convergence of Windows-as-a-Service for all sorts of devices. If apps in the future have the power to be run on a phone, laptop, desktop, tablet, convertible, all-in-one, Xbox, and other platforms (as shown in iOS and Android); it makes perfect sense to me to unify consistency between all the platforms to make sure a Microsoft-designed app is a consistent look and feel regardless of what platform it may be running on. It's in Microsoft's interest to make their apps look consistent across platforms to minimize the confusion users come upon when using their software from device to device, and to showcase their brand look across audiences. It should feel like a Microsoft product whether you use it on Windows 10, iOS, Android, and any other operating system Microsoft may want to pursue.

    To encourage a consistency across the OS, I think it's encouraged that app developers follow that guideline, too, but I think it's an encouragement and not a requirement. <Hub> controls in XAML/C# are not going to be suddenly gone and stop working, and <PivotControls> for older apps that haven't transitioned to using <Hub> and other content controls aren't going to be going away anytime soon. People will still be able to develop applications for Windows in the ways they want, whether they want to jump in to the adaptive UI changes in code coming, or if they still want to use common shared code and different projects for each platform to define how the UI will look dependent on device.

    I'm not saying it's all roses and honey; this flexibility added to the system can create user confusion as they traverse from app-to-app if and only if the design language between apps isn't unified, or if and only if developers won't accept following a new UX. Redesigning an app is expensive in time and resources; but thankfully it's not as expensive as it could've been, especially if it's already a universal app, and especially if it nicely follows MVVM; and thankfully the new changes aren't going to break existing universal apps, to my knowledge.

    The best bet for now is to keep voicing opinions and keep giving feedback. However, I don't think complaining about how things are changing is helpful at all. It doesn't mean that the complaints are valid; I just don't think they're helpful, and that it seems very, very myopic.
    04-19-2015 02:13 PM
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