03-25-2016 02:42 PM
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  1. LewisDale's Avatar
    Microsoft is reminding us that contrary to current management statements, they are first and foremost a business. Therefore when business conditions merit they will stop supporting anything no matter what they may have said in the past. As a warrior scarred from the Windows Mobile desertion on my PPC, and Windows Phone desertion on my Omnia II, I am not surprised at all. It's all about the money. PERIOD! In fact my Lumia Icon, which I dumped when it broke thank god, which was a "flagship" phone a scant two years ago will not get the WP10 upgrade. I sit here wondering how long it will be before MS deserts phones entirely for the markets where they are making money like the tablets. Its in the cards and everyone in this forum knows it.
    Kubanarin likes this.
    03-23-2016 11:45 AM
  2. wilks7's Avatar
    HTC who have to pay to have the OS tested/engineered on their devices and then literally pay Verizon (and AT&T, others) to test it on their network and then release it.

    Turns out, not many of you bought the HTC One m8 and/or are still using one. Result: simple economics. HTC can't even throw a proper launch party for their new flagship Android phone. Times are tight.

    Takeaway: That was not Microsoft's decision.
    blaaaa.. come on already!! a little testing isn't going to break these carriers...bottom line is Microsoft and Verizon want the customer to purchase new phones....most Verizon customers go on the edge plan that way Microsoft gets their money for the new phone you just purchased with the latest and greatest new OS and Verizon gets your money for 2 more years to run those new phones with the latest and greatest new OS....its all about the $$$
    Pablo O likes this.
    03-23-2016 11:46 AM
  3. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    However, when we say it's dead, and reviewers online say it's dead, it's dead. That needs to be kept in mind. The thing doesn't become just a "brand phone running app X" without the top 2 percent here and tech savvy people around the web saying it's worth having. That's how it has always worked. We say it's good, the store guy says it's good, the end user thinks it's good.

    Maybe Microsoft keeps thinking this way and that's why they tanked in mobile.
    Right, so this matters for phones that are on the market today not 3 years ago. No one is waving a lumia 630 around going "This with Windows 10 Mobile is a good buy!"

    Lumia 640 for $30 in the US with Windows 10 Mobile, however, is a good deal. Lumia 650 on Cricket is a compelling device (I want one). Lumia 950 on AT&T is now actually a solid experience. Alcatel and HP will push some mid and high-end phones.

    Microsoft "tanked in mobile" for a dozen reasons, not just one. And it doesn't matter. What matters is forging ahead, making Windows 10 Mobile as good as it can be, and releasing compelling hardware. That's it.

    We can complain all we want, pontificate on reasons, debate rationale and it's all pointless. Microsoft is just going to continue to release a new OS build after new OS build regardless of what people are saying. They're set on this and no matter how long it takes they are going to push UWP and Windows 10 for years.
    03-23-2016 11:47 AM
  4. Kubanarin's Avatar
    Microsoft bailing on mobile seems like it is inevitable.

    I wouldn't say that Android is better in terms of updates but at least you can use most apps on an phone with a relatively old version. Same with iOS where the apps are generally compatible with the phones.

    With Microsofts behaviour you need to start over completely every couple of years.
    Pablo O likes this.
    03-23-2016 11:49 AM
  5. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Loyal customers would not cling to 3 year plus old mobile phones. They would upgrade their phones every 18 to 24 months.

    Technology changes, I have a Surface RT that I still use. I also have a couple of Atom based tablets that run Windows 10.

    I also have an old Samsung tablet running Android Jellybean and an iPad Air 2.

    I have been using and providing support for Microsoft Windows since Windows 2.1.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-23-2016 11:50 AM
  6. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    blaaaa.. come on already!! a little testing isn't going to break these carriers...bottom line is Microsoft and Verizon want the customer to purchase new phones....most Verizon customers go on the edge plan that way Microsoft gets their money for the new phone you just purchased with the latest and greatest new OS and Verizon gets your money for 2 more years to run those new phones with the latest and greatest new OS....its all about the $$$
    I'm saying HTC needs to pay Verizon to have their OS update tested on Verizon's network to be certified. (That is after HTC paid its engineers to update any drivers/firmware). Carriers will test anything you give them. Just pay them to do the testing and hope it passes.

    When you only have a few thousand (at most?) users who would get the update vs. the cost sunk to get it to them, at some point that seesaw tips the other way.

    None of this is speculation, by the way. It is 100% the truth of why the One M8 is not getting W10M.
    03-23-2016 11:51 AM
  7. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    You need to understand that software moves on and older hardware cannot cope.



    We are lucky in a way that Windows 10 runs so well on 5 or 6 year old PC's but the downside is the manufacturer's are not making enough money.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-23-2016 11:55 AM
  8. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    That's not just isolated to Windows. Have you ever used an Android phone? Look at the high end phones from the past 3 years and tell me their last upgrade revision from the factory?

    iPhone will give older phones an upgrade but any honest iPhone user will tell you that performance diminishes with each upgrade.

    I understand many people are upset but lets really look at the entire picture objectively.
    Its not just about the w10 update, some times people just want a cleaned up settings or support for latest apps or app updates. Its not the same with other os. Android has lot of players hence the fragmentation, apple devices have access to a better app ecosystem that is not affected by os updates. Its microsofts OS their hardware then what is stoping them.
    03-23-2016 11:56 AM
  9. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    For those of you thinking Android has it so much better, jump over to Android Central and read Jerry Hildenbrand's editorial on Microsoft's W10M update rollout..."Microsoft can Teach Android makers a thing or two about updates" on March 18.
    Yeah, read it. First off I believe that article is before the recent news of who gets and doesn't get updated and the following uproar. Second, it says "But Microsoft (both as the people who built the OS and as a smartphone vendor themselves) went the extra mile to update old phones"

    Well "the old phones" were all phones! And they opted to ignore almost half of their entire market! They sabotaged any chance of market attractiveness for developers, as almost all Microsoft updates break compatibility with previous ones, meaning Surface RT and Surface 2 won't run Windows 10 apps and neither will Lumias which were left behind!

    Also, Android never promised 36 months of updates in the beginning (and its implication), Microsoft did!

    He doesn't know what he is talking about because he "pops over" to Windows Central. He hasn't lived the way we did in the last few years, hoping to finally catch up to platforms he is scorning now.
    03-23-2016 11:57 AM
  10. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    I sit here wondering how long it will be before MS deserts phones entirely for the markets where they are making money like the tablets. Its in the cards and everyone in this forum knows it.
    It is some time off. UWP depends on mobile being there. HP just sunk a ton into developing the Elite x3 and supporting hardware/infrastructure for enterprise (which, by the way, is where the real money is at, not selling emerging markets a Lumia 540, sorry).

    Nadella has said market share is irrelevant for mobile. What is important is whether or not they have a story to tell there with Windows 10, which is why Mobile will continue. That and the "costs" for developing Mobile are almost completely swallowed up by general Windows 10 development (it's the same OS, after all).
    03-23-2016 11:57 AM
  11. Varun Rajan's Avatar
    Loyal customers would not cling to 3 year plus old mobile phones. They would upgrade their phones every 18 to 24 months.

    Technology changes, I have a Surface RT that I still use. I also have a couple of Atom based tablets that run Windows 10.

    I also have an old Samsung tablet running Android Jellybean and an iPad Air 2.

    I have been using and providing support for Microsoft Windows since Windows 2.1.
    Good for you but for once lets say let the oem be loyal too, lets bring our own apps to the home os, extend support provide a windows phone 8.2 update and lets call it a day .
    03-23-2016 11:58 AM
  12. groady-ho baluzy's Avatar
    OK, 5 is not good enough for you? It has only been 4? We would make do with 3 major updates please.

    Again:
    "Or what about the iPad 2, which was released in March 2011 and has seen six major iOS releases (iOS 4.2.1 to iOS 9.3).

    [Update: Some are claiming that while the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 will both run iOS 9, the update makes them slow. I'd have to agree that these devices are slower than newer hardware running iOS 9 (what universe are we living in if we expect anything different?), but they seem perfectly usable.]"


    The Windows Phone upgrade model is so broken, even Android makes it look bad | ZDNet
    Okay, you're right about everything. Except for the fact that for starters MS hasn't updated their OS as much as Apple. Also, my old win7 computer got a win10 update which is older than 2011, that's not a bad update record.
    Anyway, no matter what anyone say's, in your mind, you were wronged.
    You were advised by myself and a few others to contact MS and you stated "it's too late for that". Well it's never too late and if you use all the anger and energy you have in a positive and polite manner with MS maybe you can accomplish something.
    I have a feeling even if MS gave you a new phone you wouldn't be happy.
    aximtreo likes this.
    03-23-2016 12:00 PM
  13. the1's Avatar
    OK, 5 is not good enough for you? It has only been 4? We would make do with 3 major updates please.

    Again:
    "Or what about the iPad 2, which was released in March 2011 and has seen six major iOS releases (iOS 4.2.1 to iOS 9.3).

    [Update: Some are claiming that while the iPhone 4S and iPad 2 will both run iOS 9, the update makes them slow. I'd have to agree that these devices are slower than newer hardware running iOS 9 (what universe are we living in if we expect anything different?), but they seem perfectly usable.]"


    The Windows Phone upgrade model is so broken, even Android makes it look bad | ZDNet
    It's not about being good enough for me. I just put the actual fact out there that it was 4 instead of 5.

    Also, go read actual user experiences of the iPad 2 running iOS9, even iOS8. Some users have said that upgrading their devices to certain versions made their devices unusable. Each use case is different.
    RumoredNow likes this.
    03-23-2016 12:02 PM
  14. Daniel Rubino's Avatar
    Well "the old phones" were all phones! And they opted to ignore almost half of their entire market! They sabotaged any chance of market attractiveness for developers, as almost all Microsoft updates break compatibility with previous ones, meaning Surface RT and Surface 2 won't run Windows 10 apps and neither will Lumias which were left behind!
    Alternative analysis: companies like Alcatel, BLU, Moly, and some of the newer OEMs like Acer would be super pissed if all older phones got updated as it removes any incentive for people to upgrade to their new hardware making their risky venture into Windows 10 Mobile a failure.

    Hard to attract OEM partners when you just gave everyone a new OS. Ask Apple, who saw many 5s owners not upgrade because they were perfectly happy with it. Now we have the iPhone SE. Who do you think Apple is trying to get to drop $400 on a new phone? It's people from 3 years ago who have not given up their 5s.
    03-23-2016 12:03 PM
  15. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Right, so this matters for phones that are on the market today not 3 years ago. No one is waving a lumia 630 around going "This with Windows 10 Mobile is a good buy!"

    Lumia 640 for $30 in the US with Windows 10 Mobile, however, is a good deal. Lumia 650 on Cricket is a compelling device (I want one). Lumia 950 on AT&T is now actually a solid experience. Alcatel and HP will push some mid and high-end phones.

    Microsoft "tanked in mobile" for a dozen reasons, not just one. And it doesn't matter. What matters is forging ahead, making Windows 10 Mobile as good as it can be, and releasing compelling hardware. That's it.

    We can complain all we want, pontificate on reasons, debate rationale and it's all pointless. Microsoft is just going to continue to release a new OS build after new OS build regardless of what people are saying. They're set on this and no matter how long it takes they are going to push UWP and Windows 10 for years.
    We are not going to talk about devices or praise them for how good they are. Things have changed. Now we are talking about the company. You are talking as if the WP 7 to 8 debacle didn't hurt them. Or what I said about updates on individual apps didn't hurt them. Or many, many people didn't switch to iPhones and Droids in droves, or someone as Microsoft-y as Paul Thurrott didn't declare Windows Phone dead (also in another article.) These guys suggested people move on to something else!
    Yes, they will churn out version after version the way they want but it probably won't stick, until I'll see an article on this very website bringing us the logical rationale that "guys, the mobile thing costs and it wasn't paying off, so it's over" because WM is not the same Windows on any device, even in its vision different versions require different coding and maintenance and optimizations. How many times have we seen that argument? Is there a guarantee that that won't happen? Before all of this you could argue "Microsoft is a big company and they will make it happen" but after all we've seen now, the article you'll probably write isn't that far-fetched.
    03-23-2016 12:07 PM
  16. the1's Avatar
    They sabotaged any chance of market attractiveness for developers, as almost all Microsoft updates break compatibility with previous ones
    Just like the app situation when Apple decided to go to bigger phones? Didn't change anything there
    Or how about the fact that a lot of developers don't update their apps past a certain software version

    If certain aspects of the app depends on features that are either changed or removed, yes, it will break the app but I don't think this attracts developers to a platform. It's all about the money.
    03-23-2016 12:15 PM
  17. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    Microsoft have been plugging away at mo mobile for the best part of 20 years.

    At this point they are looking beyond mobile phones.
    03-23-2016 12:22 PM
  18. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    Alternative analysis: companies like Alcatel, BLU, Moly, and some of the newer OEMs like Acer would be super pissed if all older phones got updated as it removes any incentive for people to upgrade to their new hardware making their risky venture into Windows 10 Mobile a failure.

    Hard to attract OEM partners when you just gave everyone a new OS. Ask Apple, who saw many 5s owners not upgrade because they were perfectly happy with it. Now we have the iPhone SE. Who do you think Apple is trying to get to drop $400 on a new phone? It's people from 3 years ago who have not given up their 5s.
    No one said an older device runs the OS as good as the new hardware. And people won't buy Alcatel or BLU or Moly as long as Microsoft makes Lumias or Surfaces. And also they won't buy Windows Mobile when they have been given this many shafts over the years! I am sure you are aware of the state of recent Lumia sales. People are gone; because of all the mistakes. They won't be coming back, regardless of whether Moly (LOL) has a new WIndows Mobile device out there.

    The trust thing comes waaaay before the miscellaneous OEM thing and right now there is absolutely no reason for a Windows Mobile user to stick with the platform to wield an Alcatel or Acer or Moly or BLU.
    theefman likes this.
    03-23-2016 12:22 PM
  19. Curtis Webb's Avatar
    I'm not sure why you're surprised that Windows 10 will not work on a mobile device with anything less than 1GB of RAM. It should be obvious that would be a minimum requirement. You can't add a ton of new features and and not have the processing power to run it.
    03-23-2016 12:33 PM
  20. Tonytoronto2015's Avatar
    thats the way to go :) you have already decided then why the crying and howling about?
    Because i still own a 925. After all, all windows 8 phones would be updated to 10, where's my update?
    03-23-2016 12:37 PM
  21. abhishek singh21's Avatar
    Because i still own a 925. After all, all windows 8 phones would be updated to 10, where's my update?
    ask Microsoft :)
    03-23-2016 12:41 PM
  22. Grant Taylor3's Avatar
    No one said an older device runs the OS as good as the new hardware. And people won't buy Alcatel or BLU or Moly as long as Microsoft makes Lumias or Surfaces. And also they won't buy Windows Mobile when they have been given this many shafts over the years! I am sure you are aware of the state of recent Lumia sales. People are gone; because of all the mistakes. They won't be coming back, regardless of whether Moly (LOL) has a new WIndows Mobile device out there.

    The trust thing comes waaaay before the miscellaneous OEM thing and right now there is absolutely no reason for a Windows Mobile user to stick with the platform to wield an Alcatel or Acer or Moly or BLU.

    The OEM's can sell devices in markets where brand is not important.

    If you hate MS so much what are you doing in these forums?
    03-23-2016 12:46 PM
  23. the1's Avatar
    Its not just about the w10 update, some times people just want a cleaned up settings or support for latest apps or app updates. Its not the same with other os. Android has lot of players hence the fragmentation, apple devices have access to a better app ecosystem that is not affected by os updates. Its microsofts OS their hardware then what is stoping them.
    The fact that it is so many different devices that they have to do this for. Like Daniel said, Microsoft is/was supporting more phones at one time than any other company. This is something that is greatly ignored in the forum. How many phones are currently running 8.1? I've always said that since purchasing Nokia's phone division, it would be better suited for Microsoft to release 3-4 phones a year while releasing the software to OEMs and have them test and optimize their own hardware (I don't know if they do this now or not)
    03-23-2016 12:56 PM
  24. AgentTheGreat's Avatar
    The OEM's can sell devices in markets where brand is not important.

    If you hate MS so much what are you doing in these forums?
    Sure they do. What I was saying is that their contribution to Mobile market share won't come even close to the importance of keeping the dwindling Windows Phone user base.

    And...I used to like Microsoft.
    03-23-2016 12:57 PM
  25. gwinegarden's Avatar
    FYI bud I *DO* have a 1020 that I have had running Windows 10 Mobile since the first insider build.

    I have had the 1020 since it was released in 2013.

    I have had Nokia phones for the best part of 20 years and I have been using Windows Phone since the Lumia 900 release.

    The majority of mobile users do not even know what OS they are running nevermind missing an OS upgrade.

    Oh another thing if you wand Windows 10 Mobile to survive BUY new hardware because clinging to old hardware does not help at this point.
    I said if you only had the 1020.
    Last edited by gwinegarden; 03-23-2016 at 01:14 PM.
    RumoredNow and justonlumia like this.
    03-23-2016 12:58 PM
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