07-04-2016 04:38 AM
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  1. Narathan's Avatar
    I'm not really going to leave W10M. I've had some affaires with Android but I keep coming back to W10M... Just can't get used to Android, it's so 'boring' I guess. Have to admit, I've a Xiaomi Mi 5 as second device but the moment they release a W10M rom for it, that 950 XL goes into the drawer. Loved the way my HTC M8 looked and I'm probably going for that HP device or a Umi Touch with W10M if they don't release a rom for the Mi5.

    Guess I'm spoiled.
    Bronislav Klofac likes this.
    05-04-2016 02:02 PM
  2. ubizmo's Avatar
    Coming from BlackBerry, Windows is my Plan B. Really it's plan C, since my OnePlus One has been my main phone for some months now. I do like the W10M experience in general but I'm still recovering from app pain. As a heavy Kindle user, for example, I can run the Android Kindle app on my Passport, but it is starting to fail (takes a long time to load, freezes, etc); I can use the W10M app, but said app is about three years behind Android and iOS in functionality. So I tend to stick with my OPO for daily use, and play with the Lumia 640 on WiFi a bit.
    05-04-2016 02:09 PM
  3. manus31's Avatar
    My plan b is my lumia 640 running windows 10 mobile.I gave in to android in January for another mid range device,moto g3.

    I do not lose out on anything good from Microsoft..I have a little folder with outlook mail and calendar,onedrive, onenote,groove music,xbox smartglass and office apps.

    I still install the previews on my 640,but there's just not enough decent apps to compel me to switch back and most Microsoft apos are better running on android

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android
    05-04-2016 02:46 PM
  4. Clive Rennie's Avatar
    Plan B I have six Lumia phones now did the buy one get one free thing plus my Nexus 6p just need android wear on windows 10 mobile, didn't Microsoft and Google patch things up?
    05-04-2016 06:35 PM
  5. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Know what the really messed up thing is about this ENTIRE thread.... Is we are having this discussion...

    I bet in Apple world, or Android Central, do you think they are having the same discussion ? I think not...
    libra89 and Mike Semblance like this.
    05-04-2016 06:57 PM
  6. a5cent's Avatar
    I totally disagree:
    Okay Per... apparently you're not the only one who completely misunderstood what I was saying, so sorry for that. Lets break this down.

    1) Apple does not offer cheaper solutions than Microsoft.
    Yes, but...I explicitly mentioned both Apple and Google.

    In the context of what I said, I thought it would be clear that Apple is viewed as the entity who provides more accessible products (the stuff anybody can use, as they are perceived as the company who's products "just work". Whether that's objectively true or not doesn't matter because perception "is" reality), while Google is the entity who provides products and services that are cheap (the stuff anybody can afford, because nobody can beat "ad supported and free").

    Apple and Google occupy those two market positions, so those two roles are split between two companies rather than being combined into one, but the net result is the same. MS doesn't occupy either of those two positions, but is competing against both, in exactly the same way IBM had to compete against cheaper and more accessible MS products two decades ago.

    That was my point.

    2) Microsoft's mainstream products (Windows 10, Xbox, Outlook, Bing, Groove and their PC/mobile hardware) do not require formal IT education or a high level of enthusiasm to use. I would argue that Windows 10 Mobile is the easiest system out there currently, and the same goes for Windows 10.
    I agree that Xbox, Bing and Groove require no actual skills to use. I think the vast majority of people would say that is not true of Windows however. Very few people love Windows. They use it because they must. Many depend on tech savvy friends and/or family members to help maintain and administer their Windows PC environments, and those PC's are the centerpiece and standard bearer of MS' ecosystem.

    If left to fend for themselves, most people would prefer an environment without Windows PCs, as most consider iOS and Android tablets and smartphones simpler (which they are, as they are appliances rather than full fledged computers).

    Huh? The Surface line is not exciting enough for you? or how about HoloLens, Xbox One, Visual Studio etc. etc.?
    Being in the W10M forum, that's what my post was about. I'm not talking about HoloLens, Xbox or what have you. Specifically in regard to WP and W10M, no, MS has not provided anything which a majority of users would consider unique and/or exciting. W10M does do some things better, but not to an extent that would convince a notable number of people to switch. So no... not exciting enough.

    What battle, and what war?
    I'm not sure if you're one of those people denying fundamental economics, but it's a fact that MS can't and will not indefinitely subsidize the development of a multi billion dollar software ecosystem that benefits primarily consumers, if MS doesn't see a viable path to earning that money back over time.

    Sustaining a competitive software ecosystem requires that MS extracts from the market an amount of money that is at least somewhat comparable to that of their competitors. MS is nowhere close to that point, and while I disagree with the notion that WP is dead or MS is going under, MS does at some point require a notable number of customers to start wanting and paying for their consumer oriented products and services.

    There's this thing called supply and demand. Without demand, there will eventually be no supply. The battles are about creating demand. I'd consider the war won if MS can generate enough demand so their ecosystem becomes at least similarly profitable as their competitor's. Doing that is not possible without a decent mobile presence.
    ubizmo, Laura Knotek, tgp and 3 others like this.
    05-04-2016 07:04 PM
  7. goluftwaffe's Avatar
    Apple did survived with the same market share as WP but for PC a long, long time... so I think it's possible that Microsoft continue... the One OS all platform is a winning strategy and the apps a coming faster then ever on Mobile.

    Everybody who sees my continuum live, really love it and would like to have it, but here in Canada having to pay full price for a phone is really rare, so people are not incline to put 800$ on a phone when the android phones are subsidize for 50$ or 100$.

    So we need midrange Acer Jade Primo in the Telcom store to have more people seeing that thing connected on a screen and playing video, they might even forget that some apps are missing...

    I love my windows phone since WP7 and don't have any plan B until Microsoft announce the end... I have a Android that my office force me to have and I hate that pile of disorganized icon and settings all over the place...
    05-04-2016 10:08 PM
  8. SemperfiV12's Avatar
    I have gone from a Lumia 925 to a Nexus 5 to a iPhone 5s to a Lumia 1520.3 to a Nexus 6 to a Lumia 950XL to a iPhone 6s Plus... I think I have covered ALL bases from Android to WP to iOS...

    Simply put, Windows is the PERFECT balance of iOS and Android... Android gets super customizable with worthless widgets and for the most part battery draining features and not the best reliability (better than past years, but still not super reliable.)

    iPhone while closed and locked and boring, is a lot more reliable (although, its reputation may be better than the actual experience.) Battery life is also sub-par and I notice my data usage goes up with iOS (even with tinkering of settings.)

    Windows has been a reliable OS until Win 10 Mobile. The battery life has been DARASTICALLY better until Win 10 Mobile. As always there have been few apps missing, but if you can get passed that, the tiles are aesthetically pleasing, customizable and USEFUL. Win 10 Mobile has really left a bad taste in my mouth, but neither iOS nor Android can carry the "daily" phone weight for MY PREFERENCES.

    Have not had time to tinker with Continuum, or with Edge (mobile)... But I am missing my home screen, my calendar layout, MY KEYBOARD, my use of expandable storage, the sexy SCREEN (quality and size), the simple use of dragging and dropping files, the Camera and - YES - the IRIS scanner.

    Having said all of that, all phone are great - depends on how picky and or optimistic the user is. Preferences range quite a bit, there are a lot of choices :D
    05-04-2016 10:35 PM
  9. ChefFabrizio's Avatar
    My Wife and I talk about this a LOT. Just a couple of hours ago, and really we don't have a plan B.

    oh, I am I, Don Quixote, the Lord of La Mancha, my destiny calls and I go.... but, I'm tilting at windmills.

    I have bemoaned the Satya Nadella Era. The plodding turning away from a consumer driven business to an enterprise business.

    Because Microsoft can't really compete. Maybe in Cloud against Amazon, but the financial results showed a 50% growth in revenue with only a 3% growth in profit. As we have learned, that drains cash, and at some point Microsoft seeks markets with no competition. They fail at it. Zune, now xbox (360 was a market leader. One, not so much). Why? because they lack vision. If you are always seeking to catch up, you never will get there. without vision.

    My Dulcinea would be an eco system driven by Microsoft. A home wired to an Amazon Echo like device. All cloud based. WIth a true smart watch, to control doors and cars. An MS auto OS, that links with the MS HomeOS, and seamlessly shares data. Instead of a smartphone, of 5 inches. I want a Surface Mini at 8 inches. 4:3 aspect ration, running Windows 10 Mobile. Imagine talking to the Surface Mini saying I need to go to HOme Depot, and get... drain cleaner, lumber for my deck, paint for the bathroom, etc. Then hopping into the car, and it has the nearest Home Depot, spun up on Nav, and when you approach, your smartwatch unlocks the door. and you are off. Even telling the car, hey, I need a soda, and you pull into a WaWa for a big soda. Scanning the barcode and adding it to your diary of calories consumed. Yet, the Car OS hasn't stopped running. It's still sorting out what aisles the items are in, and you jump back in. And head to the store.

    As you leave the car, it hits up the Surface Mini with aisle locations, and color options say for the paint. which get's mirrored to your smartwatch. Drain cleaner, aisle 12 bin 42!. If someone tried to break into your car, why can't the CarOS take their picture and send it to the cops?

    You check out and head home. The watch opens the front door when within 3 feet.

    You get home and check your blood sugar, updates to Microsoft Health. Same for Blood pressure. Collating all the data to send to your doctor for the next visit in two weeks.

    Your watch flashes that you have an incoming sky call and you head to the media room to get it on a Kinect enabled TV, with tvOS. All on windows 10 and all the data in the cloud.

    when you plug in your Surface Mini near your bed, it becomes an alarm clock. and you say, Hey Cortana (or a name you desire) wake me at 6, I need to run 3 miles. Poof, it just works. or Hey Cortana, lower the thermostat for this room to 65F.

    Most of all this is possible on iOS or android, and none of it is possible in Microsoft's eco system. They seem much more worried about "Bots" to order pizza. or get hotels in Dublin Ireland. And, I am I, Don Quixote, want real world interactions that seamlessly work, with little interactions. Not bots, just Life.

    I'm scared to go to android because of google, the endless ads and poor security, and Apple freaks me out with their smug superiority.

    But I realize Satya doesn't want what I want, and he cares little about me, or I think consumers in general.

    So Soon(tm) isn't really coming and my La Mancha, is not in this realm.
    05-05-2016 12:20 AM
  10. medvid's Avatar
    My new plan is Nokia C1
    ak_r7 likes this.
    05-05-2016 01:41 AM
  11. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Very few people love Windows. They use it because they must. Many depend on tech savvy friends and/or family members to help maintain and administer their Windows PC environments, and those PC's are the centerpiece and standard bearer of MS' ecosystem.

    If left to fend for themselves, most people would prefer an environment without Windows PCs, as most consider iOS and Android tablets and smartphones simpler (which they are, as they are appliances rather than full fledged computers).
    This is the most true statement written in a long time.

    If you're a person who likes computers than Windows is fine, if you're really a nerd than you're using Linux. Thing is, Windows is not, I repeat, not user friendly for the modern era.

    It's gotten better but there are lots of things that still make it a complete PITA to use. If you're not tech savvy Windows really isn't something the average consumer would want to use. That's very true.

    Being a person who's used it for a very long time and have helped countless people with problems and still have issues of my own with W10, I can definitely say from a user friendly aspect, Windows still has a long way to go.

    Keep in mind I'm talking W10 PC here, not mobile. Unfortunately, lots of people are going to conflate the two together.
    Last edited by N_LaRUE; 05-05-2016 at 03:47 AM.
    a5cent, tgp, libra89 and 3 others like this.
    05-05-2016 02:53 AM
  12. a5cent's Avatar
    Apple survived with the same market share as WP but for PC a long, long time... so I think it's possible that Microsoft continue...
    Nope. MS had to bail Apple out. Apple would have gone bankrupt otherwise, so Apple didn't actually survive.

    MS is not in the same situation Apple was in back then, as MS can theoretically use their enterprise profits to subsidize their consumer efforts indefinitely, but capitalism doesn't allow that to happen in practice.

    In other ways, the situation for MS is even tougher then it was for the struggling Apple back then, as consumer computing companies can no longer just sell a box-with-an-OS and forget about it. Along with that box, companies must now also deliver an ever evolving online ecosystem, despite costing billions to maintain, annually, long after the device was sold.

    That's not an effort MS will sustain just for the fun of it. MS will exit the consumer market before it becomes futile and too costly, and the decisions MS makes today will determine whether that happens or not.
    N_LaRUE, tgp, libra89 and 3 others like this.
    05-05-2016 03:42 AM
  13. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Nope. MS had to bail Apple out. Apple would have gone bankrupt otherwise, so Apple didn't actually survive.
    I'd forgotten about that, I think a lot of people do. There almost wasn't an Apple at one point.

    Hopefully MS came out with some profit from that. :P

    Funny how perception gets distorted over time.
    a5cent, tgp, libra89 and 2 others like this.
    05-05-2016 03:51 AM
  14. Queen Kong1's Avatar
    If Google security is so bad why do Msoft bring so many of their Apps over to Android??? ..One drive got an update but WM10 later in year..
    05-05-2016 09:25 AM
  15. Dan_ATX's Avatar
    Thing is, Windows is not, I repeat, not user friendly for the modern era.
    I find it interesting that you say that. As we (I build and deploy the OS images) rollout Windows 10 the feedback we are getting from our users is that they are finding Windows 10 to be easier to use and the ones that are set in their ways can still litter their desktops with icons. We have had some (by some I mean 3) users decide they wanted to switch to Mac because macs are easier. They have had far more difficulty using their Macs in an enterprise environment and kept asking lots of basic questions on how to actually use their Mac. But that's desktops and we're really talking mobile here. I have a had a handful of users at work buy a Windows phone. Surprised they ended up getting one (I never see sales people at phone store push them), but they did mention how much they liked it and the live tiles. iOS and Android are so entrenched that I don't see Windows phones ever grabbing a third of the market or more, at least in the US. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Going back to Apple there was a time they had a miniscule part of the desktop market (almost died off) and yet applications were developed for them so they remained viable (except for gamers). I can see the same holding true for Windows phones so long as the apps they have make the platform usable.

    If push came to shove I'd go iOS over Android any day, but I currently have a Lumia 950 so I'm not leaving anytime soon. I do really wish car manufactures or rather the entertainment system in a car had support for Windows. I have a new car set to arrive in June but its StarLink app only works on Android and iOS, bummer. At least there's Bluetooth which makes my phone usable in the car.
    05-05-2016 09:41 AM
  16. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    I find it interesting that you say that. As we (I build and deploy the OS images) rollout Windows 10 the feedback we are getting from our users is that they are finding Windows 10 to be easier to use and the ones that are set in their ways can still litter their desktops with icons. We have had some (by some I mean 3) users decide they wanted to switch to Mac because macs are easier. They have had far more difficulty using their Macs in an enterprise environment and kept asking lots of basic questions on how to actually use their Mac. But that's desktops and we're really talking mobile here. I have a had a handful of users at work buy a Windows phone. Surprised they ended up getting one (I never see sales people at phone store push them), but they did mention how much they liked it and the live tiles. iOS and Android are so entrenched that I don't see Windows phones ever grabbing a third of the market or more, at least in the US. I don't think that's necessarily bad. Going back to Apple there was a time they had a miniscule part of the desktop market (almost died off) and yet applications were developed for them so they remained viable (except for gamers). I can see the same holding true for Windows phones so long as the apps they have make the platform usable.

    If push came to shove I'd go iOS over Android any day, but I currently have a Lumia 950 so I'm not leaving anytime soon. I do really wish car manufactures or rather the entertainment system in a car had support for Windows. I have a new car set to arrive in June but its StarLink app only works on Android and iOS, bummer. At least there's Bluetooth which makes my phone usable in the car.
    That's a slightly incorrect comparison. You're talking work environment, where people typically have little to no choice versus consumer choice. Most people who work with Windows at work see it as nothing more than a tool to get work done. There's a lot of people who may own a laptop at home but it might not be Windows on it and it may not get used as much as it used to.

    You missed the bit at the end... 'modern era'. People who know Windows will keep using W10 like they used W95... as it's closer to it than W8 or W8.1 was. I've used Windows from 3.1.

    My point is, Windows in general, for the modern era is still not much of a leap from W95 for most people. People want things to just work and get things done. Windows is not really that easy of a system to use it takes getting to know it and I've run into many many many people who simply have no clue outside of clicking an icon to run software on Windows and things beyond that is too hard. But those same people will easily use their smartphone for different things.

    That was my point. We can argue that Windows is more than a smartphone but that's not the point. The ease of use is the most important aspect.

    I'll also point out I wasn't comparing Apple in there anywhere. I don't see Apple being any better on desktop applications. I've always seen it as awkward but that's coming from a Windows perspective.
    a5cent, Laura Knotek and libra89 like this.
    05-05-2016 10:28 AM
  17. teddystiles's Avatar
    Do the rest of you have a Plan B?
    You know what? Microsoft has a Plan B. I can't imagine that Satya, with the relative success of the Surface line, an overwhelming PC marketshare, and a goal of 1 billion Windows 10 devices, is really planning the demise of their entire consumer line, despite what some on this thread have said. With Panay's division, Continuum, and bots, I think they have proven that they are interested in being more than just a cloud utility company.

    Microsoft's plan B might be a partnership with Apple (moonshot) or it might be an Android fork or it might be skins and apps. I'm not sure. But if my Plan A doesn't work out (Windows 10 Mobile continues on), then Microsoft's Plan A won't be working out, and they'll be implementing their Plan B. In that case, I'll buy the most advanced Plan A device I can, and live on it for as long as I can (2 years? 4?), and then we'll see how they're Plan B is going, and I'll jump over there if I can.

    Ever since Mac painted me as a boring, chubby, pasty white guy stuffed into a cheap suit (admittedly I am a few of those things), and poked fun at me with misleading information, I've been an extremely emotional techie. They may have eventually abandoned that campaign, but their smug users never have. I can't imagine ever giving Apple a single cent of my hard-earned money unless and until they bury the hatchet with Microsoft. Google is worse, because I can't imagine paying them for the privilege of being turned into one of their own products that they turn around and sell to advertisers. Also: Windows Phone 8 YouTube app. Evil.
    Bobvfr and DallasXanadu like this.
    05-05-2016 11:33 AM
  18. rromerof's Avatar
    It just amazes me how people accept both of these crappy OS's.
    Compared to Windows 10 Mobile, you cannot be serious. I haven't seen such a bad OS like W10M, It's just incredible how MSFT keeps it alive.
    05-05-2016 11:41 AM
  19. Panzer105's Avatar
    I have to 100% disagree with Windows 10 being not user friendly. It's just as easy to use as OS X. I have A Surface Pro 3 and and a mid level Android tablet running the latest stable Android version. Windows 10 is MUCH easier to use and I support all three systems at work. OS X is no easier or harder to use than Windows 10.
    Maurizio Troso likes this.
    05-05-2016 12:31 PM
  20. LondonLumia's Avatar
    Why should I need a plan B? It's a phone, a piece of plastic I replace every 24 months, I shouldn't need to - and don't - draw up contingency plans should a few people call it 'dead'.
    05-05-2016 01:07 PM
  21. PachecoCorporationCeo's Avatar
    Sadly my plan B started switched to Android at end of last year. But thinking of getting a Lumia 950 XL.

    Posted via the Windows Central App for Android (from my Nexus 5x or LG V10)
    05-05-2016 01:39 PM
  22. azteca911's Avatar
    My plan b is to get a flip phone. I can live without smartphones.
    Bittah Pupil likes this.
    05-05-2016 02:38 PM
  23. DallasXanadu's Avatar
    I'm wondering what my Plan B for Microsoft is in general (for instance, I have to browse these forums with Firefox, because with Edge, about every fifth letter I type doesn't register for some reason). Monday, my Zune desktop software "updated", thereby rendering my 3 Zune devices basically worthless. Today I got an email saying my OneDrive storage will be reduced to 5GB, and that the 15GB of camera roll bonus is going away. I've been entrenched in the MS ecosystem for many years, not out of blind loyalty, but because it's what has worked best for me. Not so much anymore. I've dabbled with Apple and have had a couple of Android tablets. They were terrible. I just read an article about how many people are still using flip phones. Maybe I'll join them.
    05-05-2016 04:03 PM
  24. Per Kjellqvist's Avatar
    Okay Per... apparently you're not the only one who completely misunderstood what I was saying, so sorry for that. Lets break this down...

    Apple is perceived as the company who's products "just work". Whether that's objectively true or not doesn't matter because perception "is" reality), while Google is the entity who provides products and services that are cheap (the stuff anybody can afford, because nobody can beat "ad supported and free")....

    Very few people love Windows. They use it because they must. If left to fend for themselves, most people would prefer an environment without Windows PCs, as most consider iOS and Android tablets and smartphones simpler (which they are, as they are appliances rather than full fledged computers)...

    Specifically in regard to WP and W10M, MS has not provided anything which a majority of users would consider unique and/or exciting...
    Thanks for your clarification a5.

    You are basically trying argue that MS might as well give up on mobile because: 1) Apple is perceived as the company who's products "just work", 2) Google offers cheap or free ad supported products, 3) W10M has nothing unique to offer, 4) The public wants dumbed down mobile solutions, and 5) The vast majority (close to 300 million Windows 10 users + all other flavours of Windows) use it only because they have to.

    Again, I have to say that I disagree with most of your and Mr. Thurrott's assumptions. Instead I would argue that Microsoft has a lot in their favour for the foreseeable future:

    1) As you say, Apple is "perceived" as selling easy to use products. This was true 10 years ago, but no longer. Instead, as I stated earlier they could be pushing themselves into a corner where simplicity is starting to make their product too constrictive and often annoying to use because they lack some even basic functionality. This is a great opportunity for Microsoft, W10 and W10M are not only just as easy to use as any other OS's, but also far more functional.

    2) The public is slowly starting to understand how Google makes its money, and importantly how scattered their mobile offering is. They have not yet indicated any clear path as to where they plan to go with Android and Chrome. This is a great opportunity for Microsoft. They take privacy very seriously (a must since they aim for both corporate and private clients), they have a clear path for their OS strategy and they have already reached their first goal in their path to one OS for all devices.

    3) W10M certainly has something unique to offer. A future proof mobile OS which is not only integrated with their desktop offering, but actually using the core. The lines between phones, tablets, and laptops are getting increasingly thinner, and why would you not want to have a mobile device that can connect to a big screen and function just like a computer if it was possible. This is another great opportunity for Microsoft which is more than clear to them.

    4) The whole and complete public does not want dumbed down solutions, and as mobile devices become increasingly more powerful and possible to use more like computers (for those that so wish) I think the ratio of people who want more than just a "simple appliance" will rapidly increase. Again, a great opportunity for Microsoft.

    5) If the vast majority of people who use Windows do so because they have to, then why are many reluctant to move on from Windows 7 - and actively told not to by industry pundits like Paul Thurrott - when W10 is so much more fun to use. You used the word "perception", and that is what this boils down to. Many people (and the media) have the "perception" that Windows is a boring and complicated workhorse. On an objective level that is simply not true, which should be seen as yet another opportunity for Microsoft. Perceptions are not eternally static.

    Sustaining a competitive software ecosystem requires that MS extracts from the market an amount of money that is at least somewhat comparable to that of their competitors. MS is nowhere close to that point.
    I think it is fair to say that MS is doing well enough that we don't have to worry about their budgeting and their knowledge of fundamental economics.

    And signing off I would like to point out that there are no battles and no war going on here. It is not about all or nothing. Microsoft is a very successful technology company, and their mobile offerings only amount to a small part of their total portfolio.
    Zeem Frostmaw likes this.
    05-05-2016 04:06 PM
  25. rromerof's Avatar
    It will be better to destroy every single smartphone I own and, after that, I will start to produce beer... Awh Yeah!!
    Per Kjellqvist likes this.
    05-05-2016 04:09 PM
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