05-11-2017 09:57 AM
72 123
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  1. ariez84's Avatar
    With 6 months to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro/Home without additional charges. (With the caveat that MS changes its policy to allow third party browsers as default if it came from the Windows Store).

    I have no idea why Microsoft didnt implement this policy, and here are my reasons:

    1. This will force a lot of win32 apps like Firefox, Chrome, Adobe, and other popular legacy developers to use centennial bridge to add their apps into the Windows Store.

    2. I strongly feel that most people use their laptops to browse the web, communicate with relatives via skype, messenger, or other live chat apps. The need to install apps downloaded from the web is genuinely for professionals and those types of people will undoubtedly have the knowledge/skills required to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro.

    3. This will also immensely help holographics, and Microsoft next vision of Mobile (Whatever that may be).

    4. The idea that Windows is unsafe and "full of viruses and malware" will surely go away when the majority of the casual users are running Windows 10 S. The more sophisticated users never really have that concept in the first place.

    I really hope Microsoft is "testing the waters" with Windows 10S and getting old legacy win32 apps developers to port their apps into the Windows Store before Microsoft finally rolls out this policy officially in 2018. Maybe charge OEM less for licensing Windows 10 S instead of Windows 10 Home/Pro so it gives them incentive to push Win 10 S rather than the full version.
    05-06-2017 04:11 PM
  2. garisa's Avatar
    I'm sorry but, are you insane...๐Ÿ˜‚ (Just joking.๐Ÿ˜‰)

    I get it why you think that, but if Microsoft manages to push us this version of Windows on which every app you would like to install has to be in the Store, I think we're would be about to lose your freedom to install on our PC's whatever application we want, and whichever version we want. Oh boy, you don't want to be in mercy of Microsoft, just look at what they're doing to us Windows Mobile users... Yesterday we used to have good working maps, and now what we have us cr*p compared to what we used to have. Trust me, if I was able, I would try to move back, but now we're their mercy.

    Plus, not to mention so meant apps made by developer teams which broke apart, so nobody would want to put them in the Store.

    Don't give up your freedom, man. I think that for this reason nobody should be buying these laptops. They are crippled in comparison to Windows 10 Pro laptops anyway.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    kaktus1389 and Josiah23 like this.
    05-06-2017 05:51 PM
  3. xandros9's Avatar
    Interesting, maybe as a relatively easily turned-off default.
    garisa, Guytronic and Josiah23 like this.
    05-06-2017 05:56 PM
  4. garisa's Avatar
    And let me just as these replies as well.

    1. For what reason would we want these apps in the Store... Microsoft may want them there, but not us.

    2. No, there are so many other things you're forgetting. Just consider so many games which were made for Windows... People would have to drop away their installation disks, to but again these games on Steam, and hope that they can be bought over there. Lost likely not. And if Steam comes to the Store.

    3. Let Microsoft care about Hololens by promoting their product, making it good, and by being kind to their developers.

    4. Let just everybody learn how to take care of their computer on their own. Plus, Android has Google Play, and yet - there are so many Android viruses or there, this wouldn't make much difference.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    Guytronic and DavidinCT like this.
    05-06-2017 05:59 PM
  5. midnightfrolic's Avatar
    Sounds like a great idea. However, I like the freedom to install programs from anywhere, even if it is unsafe. I'm glad MS gave us an out by upgrading OS.

    I don't want to purchase a car, then be locked down to having to only buy from the dealerships or manufacturer. Although car manufacturers are getting better at locking in owners. Changing oil has become so asinine that it's cheaper to have dealership do it because manufacturers have made it that much more difficult. Oh you want to change your oil? You'll need these 5 tools which are $3000 each. And this special oil plug, seal, sealant, and oil filter. You need to swap out one spark plug? It's behind and underneath the engine. You'll have to take apart half the engine bay to get to them.

    That's the kind of things we want to avoid, having to rely on manufacturers and be locked down.
    garisa likes this.
    05-06-2017 07:33 PM
  6. Guytronic's Avatar
    I really hope Microsoft is "testing the waters" with Windows 10S and getting old legacy win32 apps developers to port their apps into the Windows Store before Microsoft finally rolls out this policy officially in 2018. Maybe charge OEM less for licensing Windows 10 S instead of Windows 10 Home/Pro so it gives them incentive to push Win 10 S rather than the full version.
    I'm not very tech savvy.
    There may be be advantages by changing the course.

    As a longtime Windows user I would be inclined to not desire a new notebook out of the box without a full blast version of the OS.
    I've noted elsewhere I just don't enter the app-store on desktop.

    Great thread for discussion though.
    libra89 likes this.
    05-06-2017 07:39 PM
  7. Drael646464's Avatar
    Hmmm. While I can see the strategy in this (if the upgrade were very simple to do), I'm still relunctant to endorse the "all eggs in one basket" approach on PC than apple indulges in on ios.

    I'd personally prefer if other stores were allowed to offer UWP platform apps, and get accredited as secure stores that you can download via the windows store. Competition serves the user.

    And I think this is something that holds the store back, for gamers, for developers, for users, is they are used to
    a freedom that is being taken away. I want the UWP to succeed, and I'd be happy for the windows store to be popular - I'd even be happy for all devices to ship with S and have an easy upgrade option to pro - BUT I am still uneasy about this one centralised store business.

    I think, while everyone should want to have their apps on the windows store, we as consumers, and those as developers would be served by allowing competitor stores to serve similar content.

    With MS creating apps on other platforms, and allowing for cross-platform compatibility, it seems a stark contrast to be only allowing a centralised store, and thus software authority. Its the UWP they should want to succeed, and that doesn't actually depend on a store lock down, there are other ways to get at that fish.
    05-06-2017 11:00 PM
  8. ariez84's Avatar
    If you need Windows 10 Pro, you can upgrade it. Like I said I feel that most people don't.
    05-07-2017 02:35 AM
  9. techiez's Avatar
    Most ppl dont need a w10pro but they need atleast a w10 home. Without the ability to install regular programs and a barren store it would be a disaster.
    garisa and Sargon Aelther like this.
    05-07-2017 04:51 AM
  10. garisa's Avatar
    If you need Windows 10 Pro, you can upgrade it. Like I said I feel that most people don't.
    Most ppl dont need a w10pro but they need atleast a w10 home. Without the ability to install regular programs and a barren store it would be a disaster.
    Exactly this! I'm sure that anybody with Windows 10 S would at some moment cry for not being able to install what they want.

    This doesn't have anything to do with promoting UWP, but only with an attempt to promote the Store, and very likely to create a monopoly over all apps which could possibly be installed on your PC. And even if you find an interesting app for yourself, at some moment it could be taken away from you. By Microsoft! Or maybe simply because the developer felt like removing it from the Store. Look at Tapatalk for wp8.1. It's not there anymore, and people would have to deploy a xap in order to have Tapatalk - unless they have it in their library. We don't want that on our PC's!

    Imagine you being given a program at your university to do a project, but it's on a disk, on not in the Store, because somebody at the university made that program. Or imagine your cousin wishing to play a game all of his friends want, but he can't because it's not I'm the Store.

    Keep away from Windows 10 S, people.

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    Timbre70 likes this.
    05-07-2017 07:05 AM
  11. kaktus1389's Avatar
    I think that would make sense if they wanted to push UWP for real (they have not been pushing it hard enough yet). But of course I agree that there are other ways to promote UWP, not just with Windows 10 S. On the other hand I disagree that people should keep away from it, because there are people out there who don't need anything other Office and Edge. With Project Cennential they can probably get Adobe suite in the Store and then even that is covered for those who rely on Photoshop or Lightroom.

    Even Surface Laptop is targeting mostly students, not really an average person. Still, they can upgrade it to Pro so that makes it useful for everyone that needs Win32 apps. I must admit that I was thinking about getting a Surface Laptop, but given that it doesn't have a detachable screen, I am still kind of hoping that Surface Pro 4 prices are going to drop and I'll get that instead. I wouldn't mind if non-pro Surface would come with Windows 10 S out of the box, since that's about how it started with Windows RT (though this is still a whole different story, point is that it only ran apps from the Store).
    05-07-2017 01:11 PM
  12. garisa's Avatar
    I doubt that anybody skilled enough to use PhotoShop would agree to be limited to the Store, thus buy such a laptop. So why would Adobe bother bringing it in the Store...

    And I think you might be having a wrong idea of students. I think they are more advanced users than majority if people. This could but only some elder people I guess, who think that they will avoid viruses of they buy a laptop like this.

    Yes, they should promote UWP, but not with devices that can run win32 anyway. They could have promised it with their Windows phones. But hell no, they are Microsoft, so fu** logic.๐Ÿ˜‚

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 phone
    05-07-2017 01:44 PM
  13. L0n3N1nja's Avatar
    Adobe won't bring it to the store, Microsoft would get 30% of the revenue. That's the problem with Windows S, major software developers sell their software online, there is no reason for them to take a 30% cut to revenue.
    garisa likes this.
    05-07-2017 03:31 PM
  14. garisa's Avatar
    Though maybe they could make a deal with Microsoft to take only few percent, or perhaps even nothing. But I guess that just like we can have our trust issues towards Microsoft, so do those big name developer house. Why help Microsoft to get monopoly with their Store. Maybe if they think this could stop piracy though... But they don't know if even Microsoft would become greedy one day. (And as we have seen, they've been doing a lot of that which was justified by "but they are a company, what did you expect, they have to do things like that"...)

    Sent from mTalk on Windows 10 PC
    05-07-2017 04:04 PM
  15. techiez's Avatar
    Nobody likes a walled garden so the concept of store on desktop has been opposed strongly by developers. I know that a few fans here would argue that uwp doesnt need store it can be sideloaded but its plain silly a regular consumer wouldnt go thru the pain of sideloading. Remember the scathing attack by Tim Sweeney of epic games in uwp, many devs agreed with him. MS just cannot force store adoption. It has to come on its own n ms on its part should hv refrained from expecting revenues from store apps for a couple of yrs atleast.
    garisa likes this.
    05-07-2017 07:25 PM
  16. Drael646464's Avatar
    I think that would make sense if they wanted to push UWP for real (they have not been pushing it hard enough yet). But of course I agree that there are other ways to promote UWP, not just with Windows 10 S. On the other hand I disagree that people should keep away from it, because there are people out there who don't need anything other Office and Edge. With Project Cennential they can probably get Adobe suite in the Store and then even that is covered for those who rely on Photoshop or Lightroom.

    Even Surface Laptop is targeting mostly students, not really an average person. Still, they can upgrade it to Pro so that makes it useful for everyone that needs Win32 apps. I must admit that I was thinking about getting a Surface Laptop, but given that it doesn't have a detachable screen, I am still kind of hoping that Surface Pro 4 prices are going to drop and I'll get that instead. I wouldn't mind if non-pro Surface would come with Windows 10 S out of the box, since that's about how it started with Windows RT (though this is still a whole different story, point is that it only ran apps from the Store).
    I heard that whisper too, that adobe is bringing its suite to the store.
    05-07-2017 08:50 PM
  17. Drael646464's Avatar
    Nobody likes a walled garden so the concept of store on desktop has been opposed strongly by developers. I know that a few fans here would argue that uwp doesnt need store it can be sideloaded but its plain silly a regular consumer wouldnt go thru the pain of sideloading. Remember the scathing attack by Tim Sweeney of epic games in uwp, many devs agreed with him. MS just cannot force store adoption. It has to come on its own n ms on its part should hv refrained from expecting revenues from store apps for a couple of yrs atleast.
    Technically nothing is stopping anyone from setting up their own UWP store is there?

    Android has multiple stores. Steam would be an obvious possibility.
    05-07-2017 08:52 PM
  18. Drael646464's Avatar
    Adobe won't bring it to the store, Microsoft would get 30% of the revenue. That's the problem with Windows S, major software developers sell their software online, there is no reason for them to take a 30% cut to revenue.
    It's 20% for popular apps.
    05-07-2017 08:55 PM
  19. HeyCori's Avatar
    The one major advantage to Windows is that it's the one platform with everything (or nearly everything). And Microsoft is still a long way from being able to offer that variety through the Windows Store. Switching to 10S would drastically backfire once a ton of tech-illiterate consumers can't install the same apps they've been installing since Windows 7. Switching to 10S too soon could be worse than Windows' 8 removal of the start button.
    Guytronic, garisa and libra89 like this.
    05-07-2017 10:52 PM
  20. Danobe's Avatar
    No, just no. I don't buy computers to support a company. I buy them to get work done. I am also not going to buy into a closed and tied down eco system ever again.
    techiez, garisa, nasznjoka and 1 others like this.
    05-08-2017 07:47 AM
  21. techiez's Avatar
    Technically nothing is stopping anyone from setting up their own UWP store is there?

    Android has multiple stores. Steam would be an obvious possibility.
    Technically W10M is superior, yet it is in a comatose state, so basically its a stupid idea. MS should have marketed W10S as a secure OS which cannot be hit by viruses, it would have got consumer interest.
    05-08-2017 09:41 AM
  22. Vittorio Vaselli's Avatar
    With 6 months to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro/Home without additional charges. (With the caveat that MS changes its policy to allow third party browsers as default if it came from the Windows Store).

    I have no idea why Microsoft didnt implement this policy, and here are my reasons:

    1. This will force a lot of win32 apps like Firefox, Chrome, Adobe, and other popular legacy developers to use centennial bridge to add their apps into the Windows Store.

    2. I strongly feel that most people use their laptops to browse the web, communicate with relatives via skype, messenger, or other live chat apps. The need to install apps downloaded from the web is genuinely for professionals and those types of people will undoubtedly have the knowledge/skills required to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro.

    3. This will also immensely help holographics, and Microsoft next vision of Mobile (Whatever that may be).

    4. The idea that Windows is unsafe and "full of viruses and malware" will surely go away when the majority of the casual users are running Windows 10 S. The more sophisticated users never really have that concept in the first place.

    I really hope Microsoft is "testing the waters" with Windows 10S and getting old legacy win32 apps developers to port their apps into the Windows Store before Microsoft finally rolls out this policy officially in 2018. Maybe charge OEM less for licensing Windows 10 S instead of Windows 10 Home/Pro so it gives them incentive to push Win 10 S rather than the full version.
    Totally agree.
    05-08-2017 09:51 AM
  23. ananve's Avatar
    I think the fact Microsoft started this with EDU sector is fair enough.

    If it becomes more popular in the future, then why not.

    Well, I can see W10S comes with cheap Windows 10 tablets though since people use UWP more with smaller form factor (i.e. <10 in screen)
    Charis Ntouroutlis likes this.
    05-08-2017 10:03 AM
  24. N_LaRUE's Avatar
    Technically nothing is stopping anyone from setting up their own UWP store is there?

    Android has multiple stores. Steam would be an obvious possibility.
    You have to enable the ability to download and use apps from 'other sources' in Android for that to work. You also reduce your security if you do this. You're basically taking the security out of your OS if the whole purpose of 10s and Store is for security reasons.
    05-08-2017 10:19 AM
  25. Remy_S's Avatar
    I think Win 10 S should come as standard on all new devices, and give people the opportunity for a free upgrade to home, or 50$ upgrade to Pro. For most people Win 10 S would probably be enough, even the better option perhaps (I assume most of you who have encountered enough PC's with multiple anti virus software and full of crapware that will supposedly work wonders for your PC, can relate to this?).
    This way you get people to use the store (in my experience most people are unaware that the store even exists), which will make it more attractive for devs and hopefully improve the app selection.
    05-08-2017 10:21 AM
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