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  1. cracgor's Avatar
    Would it be so evil to port Windows Runtime to Android?
    1. It would benefit all the Windows Developers as their apps could be run on Android. They would be making more money, giving them the opportunity to devote more resources on their projects.
    2. It would incentivize new developers to target Windows first, as they would be exposed to two platforms
    3. A translator similar to Islandwood could be designed to get Android developers onboard the UWP.


    Of course there's the issue of getting people to use Windows Phone. Marketshare is not resolved this way. It is obvious that most Windows Phone users are enthusiasts, just look at the percentage of users on W10M technical preview
    But the answer to this is a simple question: Why do we need marketshare? If Microsoft has stolen Android from Google, they would already be making revenue from their store. Would be great if it were possible to maintain factories and produce smaller quantities, strictly flagships.

    Microsoft has inlets already, i.e partnership with CyanogenMod, Samsung, etc to have their apps preinstalled. Imagine an Android phone that comes preinstalled with native Windows apps, a Windows launcher, and a Microsoft store. Microsoft doesn't need the underlying OS to be Windows to own it! This is exactly how Google stole Java developers from Oracle! (Obviously it worked well)

    There's so much more Microsoft can do with Universal Apps, Windows, and their Phones. They need to have a clear vision otherwise nobody will care for their products.
    Now you are a developer, does it make more sense to work on this, out figure out how to just make an android app and an IOS app and ship the desktop app? Not being negative, but the phone they are going to the store with is not a windows phone. So maybe if it syncs to the cloud and then to the iPhone or whatever they might develop a windows app. And maybe they make it universal, but there is little incentive to go from PC to phone.

    Writing that out though, windows should just force developers to make all apps universal. My understanding now is that it is optional.

    Out of interest though, I logged into the Windows store on my surface and searched for grocery stores. W8/W10 has been available long enough that if there was a compelling reason to make a grocery shop, at least one store would do it.

    The search turns up several poorly rated shopping list apps (something probably better accomplished on one note or a word document), epicurious, grocery pinball, and an app that tells you what food is in season. Not a single grocery store has an app.

    I guess it is easier for the companies to just write an app for a popular phone, and the consumer can just make the list on his phone. Or if the phone had an app, the refrigerator may even tell the phone to put ketchup on the list.
    12-03-2015 10:58 PM
  2. TechAbstract's Avatar
    We're getting new universal apps every day... Way to early to determine whether or not it's a success or failure. They just updated the SDK for Windows 10 to have more tooling for universal apps as well as released a big updated to VS 2015. The VS update has plugins for creating universal apps for not only Windows, but also for Android and iOS.

    The way I see things happening within the next year we'll see more and more universal apps come out thanks to W10 adoption and better tool availability. We've already got rumors that a SnapChat app may be coming out sometime next year. Combined with the Redstone update that should add more Continuum features and the "Panos phone" that is rumored to be coming, W10M becomes more and more compelling.

    One thing that people miss a lot with the UWP and Continuum is just how broad the UWP actually is. IoT is part of this equation. You could theoretically have smart devices being controlled by the same software that is on your phone. All those science-fictiony type smart homes are beginning to become feasible.

    The UWP is absolutely not a short term project. Continuum and UWP are interrelated and compelling. Use your imagination. I for one look forward to the day when I can drop my phone on the counter and have it connect to a touchscreen panel to control my home. Yes, it's far off, but the underlying framework is being laid as we speak.
    Even Hololens will use Universal apps. The tools to convert to Universal apps are not done yet. It haven't started it.
    12-03-2015 11:07 PM
  3. cracgor's Avatar
    It's an interesting idea. I am probably 10 years away from getting a hololens. Will look forward to it though.
    12-03-2015 11:24 PM
  4. leonelfunes32's Avatar
    Android isn't the answer Microsoft is looking for. At least, not having a phone that runs it... But it does need Project Astoria for it to work. Just like it needs the other 3 bridges. The problem isn't the OS, nor Windows 10, nor the hardware - it's the "app gap" that has been blown out of proportion so that it seems that if Windows Phone/Mobile doesn't have every app iOS and Android have, it's completely useless and you should avoid it. People dont need every app (how many does one really truly use often?). Whenever possible, just lend someone your Windoes Phone so they can test drive it a bit, have a feel for the OS. They will take the package as a whole against an app or two that they often neglect but deem essential. Windows 10 (every branch of it) is either relatively new or isn't even released yet. These plans take time. And Microsoft under Nadella is on the road to success. I'll stick with Microsoft and enjoy the ride.

    And even the Clippers aren't doing that well. Ballmer needs to find something he is actually good at, not involving sports or running a business or technology. Politics perhaps? Or Culinary arts?
    dKp1977 likes this.
    12-04-2015 12:13 AM
  5. cracgor's Avatar
    The problem is not that each user needs every app. It is that each user needs 1 or 2 apps that aren't available. My 2 are different than someone else's. That then accumulates over millions of users. If you are a windows phone fan you spend your time finding work arounds. If you really don't care all that much about what operating system you have, then your work around is another phone.
    theefman and MikeSo like this.
    12-04-2015 12:24 AM
  6. ntice_521's Avatar
    Out of interest though, I logged into the Windows store on my surface and searched for grocery stores. W8/W10 has been available long enough that if there was a compelling reason to make a grocery shop, at least one store would do it.
    Well, every store is on Windows. They just aren't native Windows, they're on Windows via Firefox/Chrome/IE. Which has the benefit of reaching 100% of the PC market, including older versions of Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
    12-04-2015 02:48 AM
  7. dKp1977's Avatar
    The problem is not that each user needs every app. It is that each user needs 1 or 2 apps that aren't available. My 2 are different than someone else's. That then accumulates over millions of users. If you are a windows phone fan you spend your time finding work arounds. If you really don't care all that much about what operating system you have, then your work around is another phone.
    Truth is, no one really actually needs an app. We've been dealing with life for millions of years before mobile phones were even invented. And the majority of nowadays smartphone users didn't even own one until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Smartphones and especially the apps that run on them add great value and convenience to our lives. And we've become accommodated and used to it that it's hard to imagine dealing with life without them. But do we need them? No, not at all.
    Let's take bank apps for an example.. Yes, it is no doubt very convenient to be able to check your bank account or even transfer money with it. But that's barely nothing that couldn't wait for a couple more hours until we're sitting in front of a computer doing the very same job on the bank's website on a huge screen.

    These are facts, but of course they don't change anything about reality. Which is, that indeed many people think they actually need apps. Which is a reason - if not the main reason - why Windows Phone / Windows Mobile is neglected.
    Last edited by dKp1977; 12-04-2015 at 03:47 AM.
    the1 likes this.
    12-04-2015 03:29 AM
  8. the1's Avatar
    Truth is, no one really actually needs an app. We've been dealing with life for millions of years before mobile phones were even invented. And the majority of nowadays smartphone users didn't even own one until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. Smartphones and especially the apps that run on them add great value and convenience to our lives. And we've become accommodated and used to it that it's hard to imagine dealing with life without them. But do we need them? No, not at all.
    Let's take bank apps for an example.. Yes, it is no doubt very convenient to be able to check your bank account or even transfer money with it. But that's barely nothing that couldn't wait for a couple more hours until we're sitting in front of a computer doing the very same job on the bank's website on a huge screen.

    These are facts, but of they course they don't change anything about reality. Which is, that indeed many people think they actually neeed apps. Which is a reason - if not the main reason - why Windows Phone / Windows Mobile is neglected.
    You have just said a mouthful. I fall into the population that don't live on the device on my hip, but I know that for most mobile users, I'm in the minority,. If you used a phone before "apps" were the thing or didn't have a mobile device at all, you functioned just fine without it, so it is impossible for apps to be seen as needs.

    On the subject of banking apps, I asked a guy one day, if you take a picture of your check, with all of your banking information visible, and the apps is somehow compromised and you lose all of your money, how is fault distributed? Led to an interesting discussion..
    anachrotech likes this.
    12-04-2015 03:38 AM
  9. Draganta's Avatar
    Lets look at an example of a Universal app, Huetro for Hue by Neils Laute, Neils has supported WP and Windows but now he only has to make one app that runs on the one platform, so he can concentrate on just one thing saving time and money, for me I only need download one app on whatever platform I want it on, and I only have to show my wife one app and that saves me so much time and effort you wouldn't believe it.

    But for other developers who have been on one platform or the other, now just they just have the one, for all the people who reckon PC users can just use a web login, now they have a reason to think of apps, because not all PC users use desktops, some of us use phones, some small tablets, some use transformers and there are even one or two traditional PC's about, the point is Windows isn't just a dying OS stuck on PC's, it's a young upstart that can run on almost anything including fridges.

    Developers will want to be involved because this is going somewhere now.
    You are missing one thing: some apps don't have a reason to be universal. Think of Snapchat, why would they make a universal app? Universal apps won't save WP, Microsoft needs to act now, or stop with it completely.
    12-04-2015 04:21 AM
  10. Bobvfr's Avatar
    I am not 13
    12-04-2015 05:16 AM
  11. runamuck83's Avatar
    With a billion devices - any developer ignoring universal apps at that point would not be very bright.
    12-04-2015 06:48 AM
  12. Joshwin's Avatar
    Universal apps have better scope than android ones do. So stop spreading the fud. you should post such a thing only if the app situation remains the same even after a year since W10M release. come on w10m is not even out yet, give the poor OS time to mature.
    12-04-2015 06:58 AM
  13. dKp1977's Avatar
    With a billion devices - any developer ignoring universal apps at that point would not be very bright.
    When it comes to the major apps, it's not a decision a developer needed to make, but whoever is in charge of things like that. And as has been pointed out countless times before, a great bunch of apps are meant to be used on phones and don't make much sense on tablets or desktop PCs / notebooks.
    Don't get me wrong, I think universal apps are a pretty unique and great idea, I just don't see them change much about the app gap WP has always been suffering from. Which honestly doesn't even concern me, as I have all the apps I need/want. But I'm a minority in this particular case.


    Universal apps have better scope than android ones do. So stop spreading the fud. you should post such a thing only if the app situation remains the same even after a year since W10M release. come on w10m is not even out yet, give the poor OS time to mature.
    See, it actually is out. Officially. All the way. Even if it's just two devices so far that have it. And WP had 5 years to mature already. Still didn't happen. Many of us - including me - have been playing the waiting game ever since the very beginning. It should be comprehensible that many have lost their faith by now.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    12-04-2015 07:01 AM
  14. Draganta's Avatar
    With a billion devices - any developer ignoring universal apps at that point would not be very bright.
    Billions of pcs yes, MANY apps have not much use on a pc (Snapchat, my bank's app, Instagram, my company's co-worker app and many many more). So nothing changes.
    12-04-2015 08:02 AM
  15. techiez's Avatar
    Billions of pcs yes, MANY apps have not much use on a pc (Snapchat, my bank's app, Instagram, my company's co-worker app and many many more). So nothing changes.
    Instagram, my bank's app and many more, ppl would love for them to be on PC, companies would also love PCs to run apps, allowing them to focus on app development efforts and reduce efforts on maintenance of websites. for Android and IOS they anyways have to have dedicated resources, so companies would love to have same gro take care of W10 and slowly reduce cost for website based maintenance.
    12-04-2015 09:46 AM
  16. Krystianpants's Avatar
    Microsoft shares are higher than EVER. Someone is jealous.

    CEOs from other companies are saying Satya is better and more personable. Balmer couldn't build relationships with other CEOs.
    12-04-2015 10:14 AM
  17. Krystianpants's Avatar
    You are missing one thing: some apps don't have a reason to be universal. Think of Snapchat, why would they make a universal app? Universal apps won't save WP, Microsoft needs to act now, or stop with it completely.
    Snapchat would be good on Xbox. On PC the problem is that it would be hard to control people taking screenshots. Apparently snapchat notifies the person if a screenshot is taken on mobile.
    12-04-2015 10:16 AM
  18. Al4video's Avatar
    But how does this make a developer of a mobile app develop for windows phone. Take my Kroger grocery store so used for coupons. It makes sense on a phone. It does not on a PC, tablet, or hololens. How does the fact that it can run on your refrigerator get a developer to put it on my phone?I used to think this is was the answer, but it is flawed logic. You can think I'm just talking on windows phone, or whatever. Doesn't change the truth. I'm a long time windows and WP user. I started posting a lot in this forum because of how poised of the current strategy is making me and my regret buying a 950xl. It's an open forum. I have my opinions. I would like to add the platform live, but lying to myself never helped.
    CRACGOR, It makes sense because so many millions of people use tablets. There are grocery stores now that have holders for your tablet on the back of the basket. Grocery stores want to get away from paper advertisements and coupons etc.
    Crawl out from under your version 1.0 rock for gods sake.
    12-04-2015 10:20 AM
  19. seb_r's Avatar
    Universal apps have potential and I not see them as a big immediate fail. But actors can only perform well if they have a proper stage. And that is missing. A few technerds and fanboys running W10M Insider Preview builds and even less people just recently bought a 950 / 950XL is NOT enough. Apps on a desktop PC or even tablet not make much sense. So don't expect Apps from Desktop come to Phone. Also universal apps stand for a unique design and AVAILABILITY on all devices. And that not happens at all. Only the desktoip version, which is not the primary target for using apps anyways, is availabe for long. W10M development is driven with handbrake on. Windows RT has been totally ignored and just got a crappy new start menu while universal apps could have given this platform a huge boost. Oh and Xbox - no comment. Windows IoT - what apps for?
    Ballmer is totally right. While he did not lead WP to a breakthrought, I have to say that Nadella has started the downfall already. Nadella should go, rather soon. No guarantee of course that whoever will follow his footsteps will do things better but at least there is a chance for a change.
    Ballmers advice is good. If you cannot fight your enemy then embrace it.
    12-04-2015 10:24 AM
  20. anon(5383410)'s Avatar
    The newest release of Visual Studio should help streamline development. They should've released a comprehensive IDE BEFORE Windows 10 though to give devs some time to play with it before the OS was released. You'd probably see more universal apps had they done that. Then again afaik they havent released a single Lumia 950 commercial so it probably doesn't matter.
    12-04-2015 10:43 AM
  21. Jakoh's Avatar
    Dude, tell Steve Ballmer to focus on the Clippers, his window with the current talent is closing fast, that franchise needs a championship before Lakers are good again . Stop digging into Nadella stuff, they have Bill Gates for that.
    12-04-2015 11:44 AM
  22. cracgor's Avatar
    CRACGOR, It makes sense because so many millions of people use tablets. There are grocery stores now that have holders for your tablet on the back of the basket. Grocery stores want to get away from paper advertisements and coupons etc.
    Crawl out from under your version 1.0 rock for gods sake.
    Hey man looks like your caps lock got stuck there. I don't see what my rock has to do with any of this. I have a feeling that place on the cart is for your iPad with the store's app. It could work for a surface too,but in 4 years no grocery store has seen fit to develop for windows PC or rt. Universal apps won't fix that. The point is more that the idea universal apps will fix windows mobile only works if developers make the app for PC first. What universal apps have happened yet? 5 or 6 months into windows 10. 4 years into surface. How long should a reasonable person wait on this plan?

    For everyone else, with this Ballmer versus Nadella nonsense. I really don't care about either of them. I would kind of just like this platform to survive. And I see no how with the current plan. The only reason I stayed this thread or mentioned him was because of the Windows central news article, and trading the comments section there. I thought the comments there missed a lot of the points I raised. I was ask for universal apps 2 years ago when they were announced. I see no progress. I would like to, but I don't.
    12-04-2015 12:13 PM
  23. uselessrobot's Avatar
    Supporting Android is a surefire way to kill Windows on mobile. To everyone in the press it would be perceived as an acknowledgement that Microsoft has failed at breaking in to mobile. Worse still, Google will never play nice with Microsoft and the move would be fraught with endless problems.

    It is ridiculous how people are quick to dismiss technology in its infancy. It's akin to people dismissing the automobile in 1886. Continuum is something new with massive potential that will take time to flesh out. Just because it might not currently suit your needs doesn't mean it won't eventually evolve into something incredibly useful.

    A friend of mine in IT thinks that something like Continuum is a lot closer to adoption than we realize; particularly in enterprise. And regardless, I think it's an inevitability that hardware will merge into singular devices. At this point it's more a matter of who gets there first.

    Microsoft's challenge has always been that while they're quick to market with new ideas they're slow to turn those ideas into viable, reliable products. That leaves the door wide open for someone to jump in with a more refined product and steal the prize. I think back to Windows tablets back in 2002. A ton of potential, but those devices were terribly clunky. Eventually Apple came along with the iPad and got it right.

    Hopefully Microsoft will get things right with Continuum, but in the meantime it's arguably a product in beta. That doesn't negate it's potential. It just means that Microsoft shouldn't be pinning mobile on that particular feature just yet. Let it sit there in the background and garner attention as it improves, but they've got more immediate things to worry about. Namely getting these devices in the hands of the consumer and, critically, addressing the app gap.

    Ballmer has some legitimate concerns, but given his track record over the past 15 years I don't think he has a right to be so critical.
    MikeSo likes this.
    12-04-2015 12:52 PM
  24. RoyalX's Avatar
    Universal apps are failing?!
    Windows (Phone) is failing!!!

    They promised a lot, but I don't see it.
    12-04-2015 02:42 PM
  25. runamuck83's Avatar
    Oh I almost forgot this is "The Sky is Falling Central"
    12-04-2015 03:42 PM
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