You of course are correct; Microsoft doesn't have to do it. But doing something like that might help. How is their current method working out for them, compared to the 2 thorns in their side?
Sharing Apps between two accounts
- Thread starter rdubmu
- Start date
You of course are correct; Microsoft doesn't have to do it. But doing something like that might help. How is their current method working out for them, compared to the 2 thorns in their side?
hopmedic
Active member
Well, they're growing. But you did say that Microsoft "has to" do this. But they don't. They have a delicate balance to maintain. They have an agreement with their developers, of which I am one, and that agreement says that we get 70% of all sales, ad revenues (from their ad network, if used), blah blah blah. It allows a user to install to five devices, but their user account agreement says that you can't share an account. So from a developer's perspective, they cannot do what you ask. They have a contract with us, and if they were to try to change the contract in the way you suggest, I suggest that many of us would either stop developing, or stop developing AND pull apps from the store. How would that work out for them? For you as a user?
If you read this thread all the way through, you will see that months ago I said that I was open to some kind of discount for others in a family. Microsoft does have a way of linking family members together - my grandkids accounts are "child" accounts of my account (their mother is NOT tech savvy at all :wink
. So it shouldn't be hard for them to do it. But I am opposed to one purchase per family at the regular rate. Unless of course, Microsoft is willing to compensate me at the same rate as if all of those installs were purchased. Which I'm sure they won't. I'm not shutting the door entirely, but I am saying flat out no to one payment for unlimited installed users. But that's a discussion Microsoft has to have with developers if they wish to go down this road.
What I just don't get, and why I think this thread should have been dead and buried months ago, is that there are a handful of very outspoken people who want this, and that's it. There aren't people beating down Microsoft's doors screaming for this to happen. This is good. It is the apps that make the phone, right? If you value the apps, then buck up and pay for them. Get rid of the mentality that "it doesn't cost the developer anything if I get another copy," because it does. It's called opportunity cost. My time is worth something, and for the $0.99 that many apps are, this is a lot of whining, by a select few, over what is really nothing in the grand scheme of things. If Microsoft wants to start paying me by the hour, great. Make as many copies as you want. But they don't.
And no, I don't make what you might think I do. Under $10 last month. My apps are a few niche apps that don't get a lot of use. Over two and a half years, I think I've made a bit over $300. Enough to cover the cost of my developer registration (I re-registered right before they announced the price reduction this summer, so I paid $99 for the year). I do this because I like it, and because I use it to teach myself. If I were a lot more experienced developer, I'd be making a lot better apps, and making more money. I'm not complaining about what I make. I'm saying that I find it highly offensive for someone to come along and tell me that they want a piece of my time and don't want to compensate me for it. It's one thing for me to do so on my own, and I do volunteer a bit of my time, but it's completely different, and highly offensive, for someone to demand it. So the more you demand it, the louder I'll say no. Simply because it offends me.
If you read this thread all the way through, you will see that months ago I said that I was open to some kind of discount for others in a family. Microsoft does have a way of linking family members together - my grandkids accounts are "child" accounts of my account (their mother is NOT tech savvy at all :wink
. So it shouldn't be hard for them to do it. But I am opposed to one purchase per family at the regular rate. Unless of course, Microsoft is willing to compensate me at the same rate as if all of those installs were purchased. Which I'm sure they won't. I'm not shutting the door entirely, but I am saying flat out no to one payment for unlimited installed users. But that's a discussion Microsoft has to have with developers if they wish to go down this road.What I just don't get, and why I think this thread should have been dead and buried months ago, is that there are a handful of very outspoken people who want this, and that's it. There aren't people beating down Microsoft's doors screaming for this to happen. This is good. It is the apps that make the phone, right? If you value the apps, then buck up and pay for them. Get rid of the mentality that "it doesn't cost the developer anything if I get another copy," because it does. It's called opportunity cost. My time is worth something, and for the $0.99 that many apps are, this is a lot of whining, by a select few, over what is really nothing in the grand scheme of things. If Microsoft wants to start paying me by the hour, great. Make as many copies as you want. But they don't.
And no, I don't make what you might think I do. Under $10 last month. My apps are a few niche apps that don't get a lot of use. Over two and a half years, I think I've made a bit over $300. Enough to cover the cost of my developer registration (I re-registered right before they announced the price reduction this summer, so I paid $99 for the year). I do this because I like it, and because I use it to teach myself. If I were a lot more experienced developer, I'd be making a lot better apps, and making more money. I'm not complaining about what I make. I'm saying that I find it highly offensive for someone to come along and tell me that they want a piece of my time and don't want to compensate me for it. It's one thing for me to do so on my own, and I do volunteer a bit of my time, but it's completely different, and highly offensive, for someone to demand it. So the more you demand it, the louder I'll say no. Simply because it offends me.
ohgood
New member
Hopmedic, if there was ? way to multiply your profits 10x, buy you didn't profit the first year, would you then find it OK to share apps that first year ?
Because if Microsoft were to allowing so sharing, I think there would be a good deal more interest in their market, both from Users and Dev communities, as market share increased
Because if Microsoft were to allowing so sharing, I think there would be a good deal more interest in their market, both from Users and Dev communities, as market share increased
Very good read hopmedic, and I feel your pain. But yet I don't see how Microsoft can compete when their policy isn't as consumer friendly. So you and your wife are going to get sodas. Two competing stores have the same soda for the same price, except for one difference: one of them has a buy-one-get-one-free deal. Which one are you going to patronize, all else being equal? Come on, it's only $1.50!
Say a customer & his family are trying to decide which smartphone & ecosystem he's going to get involved in. They don't find a lot of differences that affect them. Then, they find out about Microsoft's policy of charging for each person, as opposed to Apple & Android's more family-friendly policies. That could be enough to tip them the other way. rdubmu already switched for that exact reason.
What you say makes sense, but Microsoft is currently in no position to try to set a standard in a very distant 3rd place. Apple could maybe do it, or Android, but Microsoft should try to be as consumer-friendly as possible, at least until WP gains some traction.
Say a customer & his family are trying to decide which smartphone & ecosystem he's going to get involved in. They don't find a lot of differences that affect them. Then, they find out about Microsoft's policy of charging for each person, as opposed to Apple & Android's more family-friendly policies. That could be enough to tip them the other way. rdubmu already switched for that exact reason.
What you say makes sense, but Microsoft is currently in no position to try to set a standard in a very distant 3rd place. Apple could maybe do it, or Android, but Microsoft should try to be as consumer-friendly as possible, at least until WP gains some traction.
Jerry A
New member
Has anyone actually read Apple's TOS? They're very clear in that they don't have family accounts and each user has to purchase items separately.
The only difference between Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Apple is that Apple is the only one that enables you to bypass the restrictions and break the law.
The only difference between Microsoft, Amazon, Google and Apple is that Apple is the only one that enables you to bypass the restrictions and break the law.
Paul May
Lumia 950 & Surface Pro Champion
Your analogy makes a lot of sense but I would argue that we're not talking a $1.50 can of soda. When a family of 4 is deciding at which store to shop at they never just buy a soda. There are many more items needed and for that 4 person family it is more like a grocery shop. Switching from another OS can be expensive replacing all your apps and games. That soda is looking more like an expensive cart full of groceries with 4 of everything. For instance I have spent $28 on 4 games from gameloft. Buying these same games 4 times would be pricey. This does not include any other apps and IA purchases. Having said that, the developers need to be compensated in a fair way. Maybe a 50% discount on additional purchases after the first purchase.
Well I used $1.50 because a lot of apps are in that price range. I agree with what you're saying. Those $1.50's add up! I still maintain the position that at this point Microsoft should do everything they can to be as consumer friendly as possible. Lack of app sharing is going directly against that philosophy.So maybe they need to allow sharing and yet pay the developer for every download. Whatever it takes. If the competition can allow app sharing Microsoft should be able to as well. If they can't, then they have other problems. Going against the grain in this way is not going to help their cause. Microsoft does have the disadvantage of a very small user base. An Android developer could be paid for only 1 out of every 20 downloads and still come out as good as a WP developer.
WasteSomeTime
New member
I didn't know you could share apps on the iPhone. I mean if MS will allow xbl for all accounts on the Xbox, why not the phones?
Chris_Kez
Member
Wow, lots of impassioned discussion here. But can I back up for a moment and make sure I have things straight?
I thought iOS app purchases are linked to a single user account. No sharing. You want an app that I have? I need to log in to my account on your device (or give you my credentials). Then it can be downloaded. Want to update that app? You'll need my password again. That is just exploiting the system as far as I can tell. Now, if there really is a way to share apps- and I can tell Apple it's cool to just allow my AppleID@mail.com account to grab everything I purchased with my old AppleID account, essentially merging those purchases- I am all ears.
What would happen if you logged out of your MS account on your phone and logged in with another MS account? Would all of your apps disappear or stop working? Could you download the other account's apps?
I thought iOS app purchases are linked to a single user account. No sharing. You want an app that I have? I need to log in to my account on your device (or give you my credentials). Then it can be downloaded. Want to update that app? You'll need my password again. That is just exploiting the system as far as I can tell. Now, if there really is a way to share apps- and I can tell Apple it's cool to just allow my AppleID@mail.com account to grab everything I purchased with my old AppleID account, essentially merging those purchases- I am all ears.
What would happen if you logged out of your MS account on your phone and logged in with another MS account? Would all of your apps disappear or stop working? Could you download the other account's apps?
As mentioned earlier. I pay for my wife's device, I pay the monthly phone bill. I own the device. Why should I pay for an app twice that will come out of the same bank account from the person who owns both devices. Apple and Android allow this. It is why I am now on Android. I really tried to get my wife to convert. Windows Phone apps already cost more than android and iOS counterparts. It makes sense for me to go with them.
I have heavenly invested in the Windows Phone market place since 2010. I think I have spent over $500 on apps on three different devices. I have bought an average of 4-5 apps per month (thanks to the WpCentral app). Most of the apps I have bought are not the 99 cent apps rather the $2.99 apps and higher. It isn't that I am looking for a free lunch, rather I want what is offered on other platforms.
A less than 1% increase in share isn't something I would brag about.
I do pay for quality apps, I just think that I shouldn't have to pay twice.
Sent from my LG-D801 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
You are limited to 5 devices per account. It is actually the same with Windows Phone but WP doesn't separate the store from the main account.
Sent from my LG-D801 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
mv740
New member
Like a previous user said a couple post ago, read the tos of istore ... You add multiple device to your account to share your app but!! It is still the same user using those apps ( 1 person using his iphone, and ipad). You are buying a license to use this app. The app doesnt care on which device it is.. It's binded to you. Your wife must buy her own access to the app.
Chris_Kez
Member
Seriously though, does anyone know whether logging in with your account on another phone would let you download your apps to that device? If you can, then wouldn't that effectively replicate app sharing as practiced on iOS? You would just need the other person to switch back to their account to use services linked to their account. Anyone?
Jerry A
New member
Wouldn't answering that question be a violation of this site's terms since it promotes piracy?
There would be a couple of issues with Windows Phone .
#1: you have the same contact list
#2: text message backup would be the same all devices. I would get my wife's messages.
I think that if this issue was changed to be exactly like Apple and Google. Market share would rise. I guess windows phone developers on this site are just fine with market share at 3.7%.
This was the only reason why I no longer use windows phone. Right now, this issue personally doesn't matter to me because I am no longer buying apps for this platform but.... I like windows phone and want it to succeed.
Sent from my LG-D801 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
Wouldn't answering that question be a violation of this site's terms since it promotes piracy?
No, it isn't promoting piracy.
Sent from my LG-D801 using WPCentral Forums mobile app
Chris_Kez
Member
Yes, BUT what if you logged back into the primary user's account after downloading the apps???
hopmedic
Active member
Do you seriously think this is something people consider when buying a phone? Did you?
Microsoft has never been a company to play the short game. They play the long game. Always have. So an increase is an increase.
You might be the person who paid for the phone, but buying the phone doesn't grant you rights to any apps. The owner of the Microsoft Account is the owner of the rights to USE (not own) apps. The apps are sold to an owner of a Microsoft Account, which is not necessarily the owner of a piece of hardware. You might pay the monthly fee for that phone to be used, but that falls under a different user agreement - one that you have with your carrier, and carriers don't sell apps.
You don't have to pay for an app twice. You pay for an app one time. Your wife might pay for that same app, but that's not you buying the app that's her. Nobody cares what bank account it comes out of - that's irrelevant. Apps are sold on a per user basis, not a per family, per group of friends, or per company basis. Much software in the PC world is sold on this same basis. Some computer software is sold per install (multiple users can use it on the same computer), some is sold per user (one person can use it on more than one computer - Photoshop, for instance, allows two installs), or per user-install (one user can use it on one computer). So selling phone apps on a per user basis is nothing new - it has been how some software has been sold for decades. The biggest difference is price. Look at the price of Photoshop, and compare it to the price of the game you're upset about. If an app developer wants to allow you to buy an app and share it, he has the ability to do so. He can set up his own server to deal with who has licensing, maintain his own method of gathering payment, and allow you to share login/password information with whomever he wishes.
You didn't buy other platforms, you bought this one. You can't demand what other platforms have and expect your demand to be met. Not reasonably, anyway. Of course, not everyone is reasonable. And as has been pointed out above, Apple does not allow this in their T&C - doing this on iOS requires you to violate the T&C, which means you are stealing if you do so.
From the Windows Phone terms of use: Terms of Use | Windows Phone Apps+Games Store (United States)
From the Windows Phone App License Terms (same link, lower on page)
Bold added by me. Basically this says that the app purchases are tied to the Microsoft Account associated with the phone used to access the app store, that you can only have the app on phones that are associated with that account, and you cannot make or distribute copies of the apps for any reason. You also cannot transfer purchases made by you to another party.
Do you and your wife have separate cars? Do you complain that she has to buy gas for her car when you already pay for gas in your car? When you go to a restaurant, do you complain that even though you and your wife are sitting at the same table, she doesn't get a free meal? Ok - since I can foresee your argument that these are consumables, do you complain that the doctor charges her for an office visit when you've already paid for one?
You both get the benefit of gasoline, a meal, and a piece of the doctor's life, and you probably don't complain. If you both get the benefit of using an app, you shouldn't complain that you both paid for it.
The only way to "sign out" of a Windows Phone from your MS account is to hard reset the phone, so no, you cannot conveniently switch back and forth between accounts at will.
hopmedic
Active member
And Windows Phone ambassadors who use Androids know what is best for the platform. And as has been stated Apple doesn't allow this through their Terms of Use, so Microsoft already does do it like Apple. But they do a better job of it.
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