What if there won't be any windows mobile devices?

[anon(50597)]

Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.

Exactly. This is not an argument about whether apps are necessary or not for an OS to work, its about the necessity of apps for an operating system to flourish under the current market.

Sent from mTalk on my SP4

 

[Kot Prada]

Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.

Marketing (Product Positioning/Targeting; Researching on level of demand on future product; Market Research etc.) > Apps Development (Cooperating with developers; Setting gaming rules; App Store development) > Consumers (Release; Selling; Support etc.)

 

[Drael646464]

Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.

Source?

Most people use 6 apps on the regular (according to a study referenced on the front page here), so "many" even if this is true, seems unlikely. There aren't even "many" bb10 or windows phone users, but if any large proportion of them returned their phones due to apps, I'd like to here some proof of that.

From what I can tell the app situation is not as dire as people often make out. In early 7/8 days there was quite a lot of interest generated in Silverlight apps, xap. Then as that faded, and those people fell off, devs have started to get interested in UWP.

It's never been as bad as bb10, and it's better overall than amazon app store, both of which I have tried to use. Sure, there is some noteable absences, the most mainstream of which is banking apps, but for the average user, its really not this dire situation that has been painted IMO.

It's actually pretty nice coming from bb10, to windows 10 mobile. And its not bad having been over on android either (Still constantly use this for my job)- there's a lot of app redundancy, less prominent indie devs doing good work, and a truckload of ads and in-app purchases over there.

It's really only niche users that feel this app-gap, for the most part IMO. You can uber, and airbnb on a windows phone. All the major social networks, photo editing, all the typical phone functions. You can bank via phone/text/web, or use lastpass like me for quite entry to the page.

The average person doesn't use the sort of things that aren't there IMO. I've got easily 7 times the number of app/games on my windows 10 phone than I did my bb10, and actually more than I've ever bothered to install on an android device (partly because I love the cross compatibility with my tablet and PC).

Likely not as many as _some_ android or ios users, but a lot more than most ios or android users.

Sometimes I feel what happens with this, is people with niche needs, like smart home enthusiast, or professional photographers, or constant business travellers, start to feel like their experience is typical of everyone elses. There are certainly people for whom win10 is a bad fit, and there are things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.

 

[Laura Knotek]

https://m.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-not-dead-unclear-future

https://m.windowscentral.com/microsoft-needs-new-category-windows-10

 

[Drael646464]

https://m.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-not-dead-unclear-future

https://m.windowscentral.com/microsoft-needs-new-category-windows-10

I agree that apps help market devices, and MSFT needs to, via other platforms like windows on arm, grow the still nascent UWA platform - but what I asked for was a source confirming your claim that "many people returned their phones due to lack of apps". I highly doubt there is any truth to that myself.

However a lesser number of apps to market devices with, due to the still nascent UWA platform, certainly has inhibited device adoption, and made it harder for windows on pocket devices to ever break through into the mainstream.

Does it prevent the average user from doing what they want to do? Not as far as I can tell. But it may make the device seem less attractive to them, because they can't do things, they don't actually want or need to do.

It's a bit like my desire to have fruity loops mobile on my phone so that I CAN write music. I'll probably one day spend money on buying the app. Buy it's doubtful I will EVER use it, rather than write music on my tablet or PC. But I like they idea of being able to. Its the same with things like stylus art, assistants, and a range of other consumer targeted features - some people use them, other people just 'like the idea of them'. Or apps in general, I have about eighty, other people might have hundreds - how many do I use even once, let alone regularly?

I have junk that I have brought from aliexpress. Some is awesome, and I use all the time. Others I have never used once. Consumerism isn't always about functionality. Often its about the idea of it.

Think about all those people with ab crunchers under their beds

 

[vicky vyaasan]

What ever they create, they must support the creation. Lumia phones are awesome creation of Microsoft. They must bring revolution on it. I'll wait for that time.....

 

[tgp]

Source?

Most people use 6 apps on the regular (according to a study referenced on the front page here), so "many" even if this is true, seems unlikely. There aren't even "many" bb10 or windows phone users, but if any large proportion of them returned their phones due to apps, I'd like to here some proof of that.

From what I can tell the app situation is not as dire as people often make out. In early 7/8 days there was quite a lot of interest generated in Silverlight apps, xap. Then as that faded, and those people fell off, devs have started to get interested in UWP.

You're new here aren't you? :amaze:

Lack of apps has been probably Windows mobile's biggest Achilles Heel. @Laura Knotek is correct. In order to market a product successfully, you need to have something to market.

 

[Drael646464]

You're new here aren't you? :amaze:

Lack of apps has been probably Windows mobile's biggest Achilles Heel. @Laura Knotek is correct. In order to market a product successfully, you need to have something to market.

I didn't dispute apps for marketability. indeed I agreed with that, I disputed "many people returned their phones because of lack of apps", which seems on the face of it, quite unlikely and should be very easy to prove.

You are welcome to provide proof of that claim if you are aware of any.

"Many returns" is a market statistic. People follow and track those things. I am applying scepticism and I will continue to question when people make, what appear to be questionable statements of fact, without providing supporting evidence.

I don't see this forum as a "chorus of uniform and fixed opinions" at all, as far as my call for scepticism goes being attributed to 'being new here'. I see a few people present that to me, when I have an opinion or perspective differing from their own (which here, is only by shades), as if, everyone who has been here for awhile was in constant agreement about things, and I think that's quite misrepresentative of the diversity of opinion and backgrounds on this forum. There are certainly some frequent posters who agree, but there appears to be quite a bit of difference of POV on all matters, with regular posters who have been here for a very long time. This topic included.

 

[pkcable]

Apps? Not marketing (it's absence actually)?

Fair point! lol

 

[anon(50597)]

Fair point! lol

It's certainly both, but you have to have something to market that people want. The lack of apps makes it unappealing to the majority of users. That may turn around in time if things go right with the current strategy, but that is down the road.

Sent from my Alcatel Idol 4S

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Exactly. This is not an argument about whether apps are necessary or not for an OS to work, its about the necessity of apps for an operating system to flourish under the current market.

Wonder when this situation will change

Unfortunately, the lack of apps inhibits the ability to market devices. Many consumers bought Windows and BlackBerry 10 phones, only to return them when apps they needed were missing.

If consumers would have instead raised their voices to demand the apps be developed, things might have been different - or I'm just having wishful thinking

 

[Chintan Gohel]

Sometimes I feel what happens with this, is people with niche needs, like smart home enthusiast, or professional photographers, or constant business travellers, start to feel like their experience is typical of everyone elses. There are certainly people for whom win10 is a bad fit, and there are things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.

Well said

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Except, even the "average person" apps don't hold a candle to their counterparts on other operating systems. For example, Facebook is used by 2 billion people every month. I'd call that an app that undoubtedly average people appear to be using. The Facebook and Messenger apps on W10 are painful to use, in my opinion. WhatsApp is sunsetting this week. Lots of average people use that too. I would say that, based on what is selling in the smartphone market, average mobile users overwhelmingly like and use iOS and Android.

 

[tgp]

There are certainly people for whom win10 is a bad fit, and there are things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.

If W10M (if this is what you meant by win10) wasn't a bad fit, we wouldn't have users leaving it in droves. And it's not just lack of marketing, because if it was, existing users wouldn't be leaving. If it isn't a bad fit, it's at least a worse fit than the alternatives. I think your line above is more accurate if we modify it a bit and say that There are certainly people for whom win10 isn't a bad fit, and there aren't things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.

I don't want to sound like a stuck record, but we have "been there and done that". By your own admission, you haven't. Your posts are the same thing we've been reading ad nauseam here for the last several years. There is all kinds of logic that would say you are correct, but unfortunately real life has shown otherwise.

We'll wait and see. What else can we do? :amaze:

 

[Chintan Gohel]

"Many returns" is a market statistic. People follow and track those things. I am applying scepticism and I will continue to question when people make, what appear to be questionable statements of fact, without providing supporting evidence.

From my own experiences, and this is quite a limited experience, people in my country bought windows phones/mobile and used them as long as they wanted to. I rarely if ever saw anyone returning a phone after a week or so. Just about everyone I know kept them until they either got more money to buy a new phone or the current broke down completely. And I mean completely - there's a guy I know who still uses the phone even thought you can see inside it

A mobile phone is an investment - that's the mindset here and people don't like just returning it immediately just because it has snapchat missing? They'll continue using it until they feel they can afford another one. And if they do buy a new phone? They donate the phone to someone else, younger sibling or niece/nephew

 

[Laura Knotek]

Wonder when this situation will change




If consumers would have instead raised their voices to demand the apps be developed, things might have been different - or I'm just having wishful thinking

There have been many threads over the years asking for users to request apps. Many of us have indeed done that, but the companies aren't interested. I requested apps from my bank and pharmacy for years, to no avail.

 

[pkcable]

These are interesting times indeed!

One thing to remember about Microsoft, is they do SO much more than just phones, in fact phones are VERY small potatoes to them, PC software and such is their bread and butter!

 

[tgp]

There have been many threads over the years asking for users to request apps. Many of us have indeed done that, but the companies aren't interested. I requested apps from my bank and pharmacy for years, to no avail.

Indeed, there was no lack of clamoring for apps. Microsoft even paid for some apps, which were later abandoned, evidently after the contract was fulfilled.

 

[PerfectReign]

These are interesting times indeed!

One thing to remember about Microsoft, is they do SO much more than just phones, in fact phones are VERY small potatoes to them, PC software and such is their bread and butter!

Yeah but they know that is only for so long. I currently pay about $150k per year to MS for desktop support and probably $400k more for server and developer support. However that revenue will eventually morph into something with IoT.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

These are interesting times indeed!

One thing to remember about Microsoft, is they do SO much more than just phones, in fact phones are VERY small potatoes to them, PC software and such is their bread and butter!

But, unfortunately, their grasp on the software front is being overtaken or simply beaten in two key areas: Education and Mobile. If young people are being exposed to Apple and Android throughout their elementary, middle, and high school years, they will have learned how to be productive using those environments. Once in college or in the work force, they will have no need to use Microsoft software unless they go into a specialized field that was built around it. These fields are everywhere now, but new industries in the next 20 years or so might be built using what today's young people are familiar with....iOS and Android. It is a must that they capture widespread youth appeal if they want to remain at the top of the software hill in the future. They need "cool", viral apps and mobile products. Doing things like announcing the Hololens 5 years before normal people can get their hands on it is not going to cut it.