What if there won't be any windows mobile devices?

[Drael646464]

If W10M (if this is what you meant by win10) wasn't a bad fit, we wouldn't have users leaving it in droves. And it's not just lack of marketing, because if it was, existing users wouldn't be leaving. If it isn't a bad fit, it's at least a worse fit than the alternatives. I think your line above is more accurate if we modify it a bit and say that There are certainly people for whom win10 isn't a bad fit, and there aren't things missing, but for the average person, I don't think that's true.

I don't want to sound like a stuck record, but we have "been there and done that". By your own admission, you haven't. Your posts are the same thing we've been reading ad nauseam here for the last several years. There is all kinds of logic that would say you are correct, but unfortunately real life has shown otherwise.

We'll wait and see. What else can we do? :amaze:

Also not sure if this is true either. It's a common assumption, but does it match reality? IDK.

This may well be, at least in part, a conflation of personal experience, as I suggested, and also the conflation of marketshare with installed userbase.

comScore measured 2.7 percent userbase in the US, last year, when the marketshare was like now, well below 1 percent. There a lot of people on here with older 8.1 phones, and the newer Lumia's are over two years old, with no new phones available. The only phones still available are the 4s, which is afaik still US only, and the x3.

It's pretty hard to have a marketshare without substaintive new handsets. Certainly I am not saying some people haven't left. Certainly those who like new and shiny, will have probably moved on. But I think the number of people actually still using windows phones is frequently underestimated.

 

[Drael646464]

Wonder when this situation will change




If consumers would have instead raised their voices to demand the apps be developed, things might have been different - or I'm just having wishful thinking

I'm pretty convinced windows on arm will impact WoA adoption. It's pretty obvious if you think about it.

*People will buy windows tablets and notebooks with WoA - because instant on, slimmer forms, longer battery, built in high speed LTE, GPS etc. The userbase for this will be vastly larger than win10m.
*Those people will find win32 and centennial apps to not scale as well, not have live tiles, not give proper notifications and also vastly underperform next to UWP apps (at least 70 percent slower, but also sometimes even slower than that, depending on the app). Whether they know the actual difference or not between how these apps work, UWP versus Win32, their UX will be worse on win32 and better on native apps. Tablet users and notebook users are more likely to prefer dedicated apps anyway. This will effect user feedback, and user purchasing.
*The built in GPS, always on LTE, instant on, and ability to receive notifications will lend itself more to mobility apps - banking, chat, share economies. This may also motivate iOS app makers to port their apps.

Windows on arm will be way bigger than windows s. Notebooks are the fastest growing segment of PCs, and windows tablets the fastest growing segment of tablets - together, a pretty sizeable userbase.

But on the other side we have windows s, encouraging people across to centennial, foot in the door style. It's almost a herding technique.

 

[Drael646464]

Except, even the "average person" apps don't hold a candle to their counterparts on other operating systems. For example, Facebook is used by 2 billion people every month. I'd call that an app that undoubtedly average people appear to be using. The Facebook and Messenger apps on W10 are painful to use, in my opinion. WhatsApp is sunsetting this week. Lots of average people use that too. I would say that, based on what is selling in the smartphone market, average mobile users overwhelmingly like and use iOS and Android.

Well, yes FB is a POS. That's really about the only one, and I readily admit that its horrible. There are fortunately some good alternatives (a veritable sea of them).

WhatsApp is being sunsetted? That's news to me. I get no notification of it, in the app? Lol, that's silly timing, if true, considering whats coming this year. That will absolutely want a UWP.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Well, yes FB is a POS. That's really about the only one, and I readily admit that its horrible. There are fortunately some good alternatives (a veritable sea of them).

WhatsApp is being sunsetted? That's news to me. Lol, that's silly timing, considering whats coming this year. That will absolutely want a UWP.

I think I'm wrong about WhatsApp. There was a big one on the news this week, but I can't remember.

Edit:. It was Evernote. Not too sure how big that one was.

 

[tgp]

Also not sure if this is true either. It's a common assumption, but does it match reality? IDK.

<snip>

comScore measured 2.7 percent userbase in the US, last year, when the marketshare was like now, well below 1 percent.

Well, if Windows phone's market share in the United States was 2.7% in 2016, then it dropped. In February 2017, comScore reported it at 1.5%.

 

[Laura Knotek]

I think I'm wrong about WhatsApp. There was a big one on the news this week, but I can't remember.

Edit:. It was Evernote. Not too sure how big that one was.

Here's an article with some statistics about Evernote. http://expandedramblings.com/index.php/evernote-statistics/

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Thanks, Laura. I had no idea that Evernote was so huge.

 

[PerfectReign]

That's crazy! I used to be an evernote user before switching to OneDrive

I wrote on my blog in 2014 that they had 100M users

http://www.perfectreign.com/2014/05/evernote-100m-users/

 

[Drael646464]

Well, if Windows phone's market share in the United States was 2.7% in 2016, then it dropped. In February 2017, comScore reported it at 1.5%.

So it has. That's almost half. Well then you are right, people are leaving in droves.

Hard to say its all specifically for apps though. Could be that they just want new devices and their aren't any. Or a combination.

It appears like thing really started dropping off in marketshare, around when MSFT killed nokia. So there must be some connection there between, devices, and userbase too.

After all there are as many new UWP apps coming to the platform, as there are mobility app makers ditching the platform. I wrote a blog the other day on top games for the platform. Over 90% of them were all UWP. A lot of apps these days are UWP too (like productivity or photo editing apps)

The ones that are leaving are the ones that came earlier in the piece with Silverlight/xap, and see the platform as being about win10m, versus the ones that are coming in, who see UWP as the future app platform for windows - slightly different use scenarios with the userbase too admittedly: Desktop users don't have much use for snapchat or banking apps.

Perhaps that's a factor in the leaving as well though. Just hard to know exactly what all the prevailing factors are without some kind of formal survey.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

Nice blog. I'm visiting it now.
Thanks for sharing.

Sent from mTalk

 

[Drael646464]

If it was only apps, that would be kind of positive, in terms of correcting it. It's very early days for UWP, and it seems very likely the platform will grow IMO.

But I think, personally, handsets is as big, if not a bigger factor. And we don't know if there is any real plan to solve that pickle.

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

If it was only apps, that would be kind of positive, in terms of correcting it. It's very early days for UWP, and it seems very likely the platform will grow IMO.

But I think, personally, handsets is as big, if not a bigger factor. And we don't know if there is any real plan to solve that pickle.

Yeah. They are in a really tough spot. I'm really hoping that the UWP plan really catches fire. I really miss my Windows Phone, and hope that I'll be able to use one again in the near future. Fingers are crossed.

Sent from mTalk

 

[pkcable]

But, unfortunately, their grasp on the software front is being overtaken or simply beaten in two key areas: Education and Mobile. If young people are being exposed to Apple and Android throughout their elementary, middle, and high school years, they will have learned how to be productive using those environments. Once in college or in the work force, they will have no need to use Microsoft software unless they go into a specialized field that was built around it. These fields are everywhere now, but new industries in the next 20 years or so might be built using what today's young people are familiar with....iOS and Android. It is a must that they capture widespread youth appeal if they want to remain at the top of the software hill in the future. They need "cool", viral apps and mobile products. Doing things like announcing the Hololens 5 years before normal people can get their hands on it is not going to cut it.

A very valid point! We shall see how this all plays out over the next couple years!

 

[Scienceguy Labs]

A very valid point! We shall see how this all plays out over the next couple years!

I really like Windows 10, and really hope that MS overcomes the obstacles it faces. I'd especially like to see a successful push back into mobile. I very much enjoyed my Windows Phones over the years. I guess all we can do is wait.

 

[Drael646464]

So it has. That's almost half. Well then you are right, people are leaving in droves.

Hard to say its all specifically for apps though. Could be that they just want new devices and their aren't any. Or a combination.

It appears like thing really started dropping off in marketshare, around when MSFT killed nokia. So there must be some connection there between, devices, and userbase too.

After all there are as many new UWP apps coming to the platform, as there are mobility app makers ditching the platform. I wrote a blog the other day on top games for the platform. Over 90% of them were all UWP. A lot of apps these days are UWP too (like productivity or photo editing apps)

The ones that are leaving are the ones that came earlier in the piece with Silverlight/xap, and see the platform as being about win10m, versus the ones that are coming in, who see UWP as the future app platform for windows - slightly different use scenarios with the userbase too admittedly: Desktop users don't have much use for snapchat or banking apps.

Perhaps that's a factor in the leaving as well though. Just hard to know exactly what all the prevailing factors are without some kind of formal survey.

I just read today, in the positive windows news thread, a survey that shows that it's the 8.1 phone users primarily that are leaving. They speculate that it's either the "hardcore fans" that are already on win10m phones, or that its the effect of having no new handsets.

But it's an interesting piece of data to add to the now 1.5% userbase.

Almost all supported Windows Phones are already running Windows 10 Mobile Creators Update

I'm actually kind of amazed that so many people are still on 8.1 73.9% of windows phone users, lol.

 

[PerfectReign]

I'm actually kind of amazed that so many people are still on 8.1 73.9% of windows phone users, lol.

I was turned on my HTC One M8 yesterday. Ibjad forgotten how primitive and difficult Win 8.1 was compared to 10.

 

[Guytronic]

What if there won't be any windows mobile devices?

Not much to say frankly.
If Microsoft had any plans for a revival it would have happened long ago.
Analyze all day long if you will.

Microsoft is out of the mobile game which is beneficial for the company and it's shareholders.
Apologies to fans of the mobile OS this is about spending Microsoft money in the right places.

 

[libra89]

I just read today, in the positive windows news thread, a survey that shows that it's the 8.1 phone users primarily that are leaving. They speculate that it's either the "hardcore fans" that are already on win10m phones, or that its the effect of having no new handsets.

But it's an interesting piece of data to add to the now 1.5% userbase.

Almost all supported Windows Phones are already running Windows 10 Mobile Creators Update

I'm actually kind of amazed that so many people are still on 8.1 73.9% of windows phone users, lol.

Yep, my dad has nothing to upgrade to, and besides, he's fine with 8.1. Windows 10 Mobile is getting better but I don't feel comfortable with subjecting him to app crashes for the few ones that he uses, which includes HERE (which doesn't exist there). Why fix what isn't broken?

 

[BajanSaint69]

I suspect what they are working on is a device that can run x86 software and can also make calls. From a coding perspective this is a bit like shoving a camel through the eye of a needle. Existing handsets most likely lack the power to pull this off, hence the pruning of the handsets as we go forward. They no longer matter. The mobile operating system is irrelevant.

But still we have statements from the company and leaks of things like the C-shell that indicate that they continue to develop for mobile. They have no choice because this is where the growth is going to be. The Surface devices have succeeded because they play to MS strengths, they run real software, not apps. If you want apps you can go to Apple or Android they have that sphere locked down. If you want to do real work you buy a Surface. When the Surface phone emerges, whatever the form factor, it will allow people to do real work which will make the app gap irrelevant.

If you look at the vision laid out by Nadella, this is clearly where they want to go. I suspect it is proving harder than they thought it would be.

 

[Chintan Gohel]

WhatsApp is sunsetting this week. Lots of average people use that too. I would say that, based on what is selling in the smartphone market, average mobile users overwhelmingly like and use iOS and Android.

This was about the apps for windows phone 7.8 and 8

If W10M (if this is what you meant by win10) wasn't a bad fit, we wouldn't have users leaving it in droves. And it's not just lack of marketing, because if it was, existing users wouldn't be leaving

I believe the reality is more of that people aren't buying new windows mobile devices since they have simply disappeared from the majority of the countries in the world, especially where the OS used to be popular like Brazil and some African and European countries

At the same time, a lot of users had bought the cheaper 520/525 lumia series and when they wanted a better phone, they went for the better phone which was cheaper for the same specs - for a good number of people, price is the biggest factor and hence would be swayed by the cheaper nature of android phones

And finally marketing also plays a part since lack of marketing means low to zero levels of awareness by the average consumer

There have been many threads over the years asking for users to request apps. Many of us have indeed done that, but the companies aren't interested. I requested apps from my bank and pharmacy for years, to no avail.

But do we have numbers of how many requested for a certain app? Like app x was requested by 2000 people but nothing was done? Or app Y was requested by 50000 and they took no interest?

An individual making the same request 20 times doesn't carry the same weight as the request being made by 20 people