When will AT&T Lumia 830 get PROPER Denim update?

[gordonfink]

No doubt it's frustrating - so much that I bought a RM-985 that I've switched over to. Took me awhile to find one that was enough of a deal that I was willing to jump on it, but I finally did. Basically, the goal was to get a 985 at a price that I could sell the 983 to cover it.

 

[barotropic]

Regarding "jumping ship", I have done that! But I left AT&T, not Windows Phone.

I can tell you after many years of dealing with AT&T, they are 95% of this problem. They prevent the manufacturers from updating phones without their (long-delayed) blessing, and the only updates and support they provide are those which are to their advantage, not the customer's.

I once owned an AT&T Samsung GS2, which was probably the last in the world to get Jelly Bean, due to AT&T's behavior. When they finally delivered the update, all AT&T GS2's became unreliable - random reboots, extreme battery drain, missed calls. For 2 whole months, the AT&T forum was ablaze with complaints, but the company wouldn't even acknowledge the problem. Every caller to tech support was told, "never heard of the issue, try a factory reset".

Yes, Apple has the clout to bypass the carriers, but iPhone has its own ton of issues, including lockdown, crude interface, sky-high price. I owned one, and won't go back there.

So in the future, I'll buy my own unlocked Windows Phones, and use a pay-as-you-go GSM carrier. T-Mobile has some good offerings, as well as a couple of MVNO's that use AT&T.

 

[neodk]

Filing a complaint with the BBB is the equivalent of a toddler screaming "I'm going to tell mom and dad!" and hoping that whomever has wronged you will at the very least stop offending you. 100 complaints on the BBB out of hundreds of thousands of transactions is nothing. Sales of the 830 probably don't even indicate by and large this device was (1) popular and (2) cost effective to support over the life of the phone. And no, I'm not trying to belittle the following the Lumia 830 has. I bought one about a month ago and got rid of it when I couldn't install "full Denim" to the device.

Businesses are fluent in the language of currency. They speak of return on investment, turns, transactional cost, margin.....MARGIN! The 830 represents a small fraction of their business. Windows Phone represents a small fraction of their business. So when one device out of the entire catalog doesn't get a full update, everyone panics. Microsoft may have been less than forthcoming about the updates (or lack thereof) on the horizon for 830 due to turmoil within the organization, an unclear roadmap on where the platform would be in 6 months, a year, etc. This doesn't excuse Microsoft from telling its customer base that a device that they released late 2014 isn't going to receive updates to the most current version of Windows Phone (8.1, Update 2). However, if the update in question is being leapfrogged and replaced with Windows 10 that is another story. The internals (minus the camera) on the 830 are similar to the 635, 640, and 640 XL. One would think that getting a build out of "full Denim) wouldn't be difficult. But I'm not Microsoft.

If AT&T is forcing Microsoft to withhold the update from US-based Lumia 830's, I highly doubt it is being done to disrupt the lives of its customers and spark ill will to both companies. It could be compatibility, perceived competition the 830 would have or actually provide to the 640 and 640 XL. If you have three similar devices out on the market at the same time from the same company on the same carrier, what are you doing to differentiate them to the consumers? There is enough going for the 640 and 640 XL that you can say they are different. The 830 bears a strong resemblance to the 640 and 640 XL, sans the premium build and PureView labeled camera. If you were Apple, you wouldn't want to have the iPhone 6S actively competing with the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus. Imagine if Apple actively sold the iPhone 4/4S/5/5C/5S/6/6 Plus/6S/6S Plus all at the same time. Right now with the 830, 640, and 640 XL you have the scenario of a 5, 5C, and 5S being sold together. What are you going to buy? The 5? Why do that when there is pretty much an identical phone (cheaper) with the same specs called the 5C? Why would you want the 5C and 5 when you could have the 5S?

 

[oryan_dunn]

What are you doing to differentiate them to the consumers?

Start by providing updates to the phones you've sold.

Imagine if Apple actively sold the iPhone 4/4S/5/5C/5S/6/6 Plus/6S/6S Plus all at the same time.

Well, they don't sell all of them at the same time, but they do provide updates (ios is current back to the 4s).

Again, past performance is the best predictor of future behavior.

If Apple used new software and security updates as a reason to buy a new phone, then why would I expect the new phone I buy to continue to get updates when the next phone comes out?

It's very poor strategy on AT&T's part if their thinking that holding the 830 back from full Denim will somehow spur 640 sales. AT&T used to be the king of prompt WP updates (which I why I had no heartburn about buying the AT&T version). Now, they're a joke on the level of Verizon. Until MS can show over the course of a few years the ability to deliver prompt software updates to phones bypassing the carrier, I won't be back.

The only hope I have of ever getting a proper firmware on my phone is if MS adds firmware to it's insider program. Until then, I have a phone that doesn't have the camera features advertised, and a non-functional Netflix.

Bottom line: I'll not be buying another Windows Phone nor will I recommend anyone else buy a Windows Phone until my RM-983 gets the full Denim update.

 

[Noahma]

Just to give a quick update on the case. AT&T has not posted an official response to my complaint. They have however until the 7th. The person I had spoken to said he was going to do a bit more digging and see what else he could find. I have been an AT&T customer since 1999, and I would hope that loosing a long time customer and his family (around 12 devices that are currently being used) would spur them on to either finish testing and releasing (looks like that is not going to happen) or issue me a refund for the 450.00 I spent on a phone that had features in its marketing material, but did NOT actually have.

He stated he would give me a call back when he got somewhere. Like I said, I will post the response here and send it on to Daniel after it is given, maybe a little media attention would put some egg on AT&T's face.

 

[anon(123856)]

To preface my post below: I knew going in this wasn't going to work, I just figured I see what happened.

Because I enjoy pain and suffering I chatted with Microsoft Mobile support and told them I wanted a refund ( I had purchased the phone at a MS store) and got the same smoke blown up my rear end that AT&T uses. The rep couldn't understand the problem at first. Then I explained the AT&T withholding the Denim firmware was preventing 830 users from getting all the features that were promised in the advertising. She told me I would have a wonderful camera experience with Lumia Classic. Yeah, right... Then she thanked me for "making Microsoft aware of the problem". I stared at my screen for a while because I was stunned. I replied to her that I found it hard to believe that Microsoft isn't aware of this issue.

Bottom line, MS and AT&T are both willfully ignoring us and hoping we go away. And some of us will.

 

[ashram]

To preface my post below: I knew going in this wasn't going to work, I just figured I see what happened.

Because I enjoy pain and suffering I chatted with Microsoft Mobile support and told them I wanted a refund ( I had purchased the phone at a MS store) and got the same smoke blown up my rear end that AT&T uses. The rep couldn't understand the problem at first. Then I explained the AT&T withholding the Denim firmware was preventing 830 users from getting all the features that were promised in the advertising. She told me I would have a wonderful camera experience with Lumia Classic. Yeah, right... Then she thanked me for "making Microsoft aware of the problem". I stared at my screen for a while because I was stunned. I replied to her that I found it hard to believe that Microsoft isn't aware of this issue.

Bottom line, MS and AT&T are both willfully ignoring us and hoping we go away. And some of us will.

unless you have a direct number, chances will be that you talk to tier 1 support. most of the time, tier 1 support don't know anything that isn't provided via a FAQ database.

because of that, your support rep probably didn't have a clue. With answers like that, you ask to escalate the issue, with a case number assigned.

yes, this is from well over a decade on both sides of the tech support call..... and 5-6 years dealing directly with MS enterprise solutions

it won't force AT&T do do squat, but maybe get a ball rolling somewhere. also, MS has no control over AT&T pushing the update or not....

 

[anon(123856)]

Like I said, I knew going in it was pointless. It was more just to see what sort of reaction it might provoke. I wasn't expecting much and that's what I got.

 

[Derausgewanderte]

ATTdoesn'tCare doesn't even reply anymore. LumiaHelp writes the same that I've heard for a long time.
If only I could take them by their word....
Call it pointless, at least I can vent a little....

 

[anon(123856)]

ATTdoesn'tCare doesn't even reply anymore. LumiaHelp writes the same that I've heard for a long time.
If only I could take them by their word....
Call it pointless, at least I can vent a little....
View attachment 109439

They just keep blowing smoke... I don't think they understand our frustration at all. You know it's bad when they can make Verizon look good...

 

[LaVike]

My recommendation those on AT&T with 830's to open a BBB complaint, if they get enough of them maybe something might happen, but as it sits now they have only and will only have the update for the 1520

Noahma,
The more I've thought about this, the more I think you have something here. I think doing the BBB thing could be good but I think folks should also do something else - TAKE YOUR RM-983 BACK AND TELL THEM IT IS DEFECTIVE! Just keep doing this over and over and over again. Between the cost of their folks time AND the cost of replacing each one and it now needing to be refurbished, that will put some pain on ATT. You can read my horror story with my RM-983 in the thread about the 830 being removed from the ATT site and I'm working on something similar but I bought mine from the MS Store so I can't get ATT to do the refund. I'm hoping this works out for me and I get an 830 with FULL DENIM on it. Mine was so hosed that it would be considered defective so I'm being completely honest with them.

Make them feel the pain!!!

 

[tgp]

TAKE YOUR RM-983 BACK AND TELL THEM IT IS DEFECTIVE!

What is defective about it? Doesn't it work anymore?

I think the problem here is that the AT&T Lumia 830 was purchased based on what users thought it would become, not on what it is (was). I know that there was the impression that it would get Denim, but technically it still could.

 

[LaVike]

TGP,
If you look on the 3rd page (post 74) on the "ATT is no longer listing the 830 as an upgrade" thread, you can see the issues I'm having with my RM-983. And I do not think I'm the only person who is having some or all of these issues.

 

[tgp]

TGP,
If you look on the 3rd page (post 74) on the "ATT is no longer listing the 830 as an upgrade" thread, you can see the issues I'm having with my RM-983. And I do not think I'm the only person who is having some or all of these issues.

Was it promised to get Denim? And even if it was, is "defective" the case to bring against it?

 

[ashram]

I think the problem here is that the AT&T Lumia 830 was purchased based on what users thought it would become, not on what it is (was). I know that there was the impression that it would get Denim, but technically it still could.

Well, they claimed to have Denim installed, which seemed to be a half truth
Lumia Camera was supposed to work, instead, we have to use MS camera or Lumia Camera Classic
Netflix won't work until it's updated (Update 2/Denim Firmware or Windows 10)

Now, I knew these weren't working when I got mine last month, but AT&T says "They are working on it" or "Elected to skip it" or "just wait for it to pop up on our blog"

Now, while I can easily work on my 830, and netflix is not a deal breaker, it would be nice for it to work. As for Lumia Camera, well, everything seems to be moving to MS Camera for Windows 10.

So now the question is "Is AT&T really NOT bothering or are the just waiting for Windows 10 to push firmware and software updates?"

 

[tgp]

Now, I knew these weren't working when I got mine last month, but AT&T says "They are working on it" or "Elected to skip it" or "just wait for it to pop up on our blog"

Either way, I don't think it's a safe bet to buy something based on what it will become. Windows Phone has been "coming soon" mode pretty much since its inception almost 5 years ago. I would think by now that its users would have learned to take the claims with a grain of salt, and they they wouldn't bank on it until it is a reality.

 

[poit57]

I submitted a BBB complaint last week after reading Noahma's suggestion. I received a call from an AT&T rep yesterday. In her signature on the BBB website, she listed her title as "Manager Executive Response, AT&T."

The response that she entered on the website explained that she contacted me and

explained that software updates are fully tested before being sent out to our customers and at this time we don't have anything to share on updates for this device. Users will be notified on the device and through our forums when updates are available..

When we spoke on the phone, she was understanding. She said she had contacted the technical department and even sounded a bit disappointed herself that she could not even get a straight answer. She said that the technical department did assure her that they are still working on the update for the 830, but they couldn't offer her any details about progress, reasons for the delay, or an ETA on when it will be released.

 

[ashram]

well, you got an actual call, always a plus.

 

[Noahma]

and here finally is the response to my complaint.

AT&T Mobility ("AT&T") is in receipt of the above-referenced customer's complaint and appreciates the opportunity to respond. Mr. Mason complained that a software update was not released for his Nokia 830.



In an effort to resolve Mr. Mason's concerns, contact was made on July 27, 2015. I apologized for his experiences and explained that after review, I found that the software update was released however was only available for the Nokia 1520. At this time, the software he is seeking will not be available for the Nokia 830. I explained that his feedback would be submitted accordingly.



With regards to Mr. Mason's request for a refund, I advised that AT&T would not be able to refund his device as the Buyer's Remorse period has expired.



Mr. Mason indicated that this does not resolve his concerns.



AT&T sincerely regrets any inconvenience this issue may have caused."

 

[Noahma]

im waiting for a way to respond to the buyers temorse portion so i can state that we were misled by at&t's social media team that the update was on the way, my remorse has only come when learning through my complaint that the update will not be coming