Will an "unlocked" 950XL work on Verizon?

[jas o]

No, MS has locked out VZW's bands as of now.

 

[Dusan Randj]

Looking at this thread, I just simple love how it is here in Serbia. Get the phone wherever you want, buy the card on almost every shop on street and recharge it also and enjoy. Don't like the carrier? Buy another SIM card for 2-3$ and so on.
You can get phone on contract also, they are mostly unlocked, but if you get locked you can unlock it at every shop.

Also, you have problems with coverage? Can't understand that. Most developed country, have highest internet speeds and you have coverage problems? Lol
Sorry, that sounds funny, I only have problems in deepest of the woods.

People seem to really complicate things, buy yourselves unlocked phones, pop the prepaid card and make life simpler.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Looking at this thread, I just simple love how it is here in Serbia. Get the phone wherever you want, buy the card on almost every shop on street and recharge it also and enjoy. Don't like the carrier? Buy another SIM card for 2-3$ and so on.
You can get phone on contract also, they are mostly unlocked, but if you get locked you can unlock it at every shop.

Also, you have problems with coverage? Can't understand that. Most developed country, have highest internet speeds and you have coverage problems? Lol
Sorry, that sounds funny, I only have problems in deepest of the woods.

People seem to really complicate things, buy yourselves unlocked phones, pop the prepaid card and make life simpler.

It's not that simple in the US. Throughout most all of Europe, cell carriers use the same GSM tech on different bands. A GSM phone will work on all carriers. In the US, not all carriers use GSM. Sprint and Verizon use a tech called CDMA. There's a time coming when that will be irrelevant and LTE will be used for voice and data, but the time where LTE can work on its own to that end is not yet here.

If you bought a phone in Serbia and visited the US, it would not work on all our networks. If you popped a Verizon or Spring SIM in, it would have very limited functionality at best (probably a couple of LTE bands), but it still wouldn't likely work because it needs CDMA to get on that LTE network in the first place.

This two tech system goes back a long way, though back in the 90s it was TDMA vs CDMA.

 

[Eric Chew]

I have it fairly good authority that Verizon is BLOCKING the phones. This isn't a rep thing, this is confirmed by two different sources (from both parties). Though the chips support CDMA, they are apparently disabled (can't activate via VZW). That is why CDMA isn't listed on the phones specs. This bull****,the unlimited data crap, lack of support at the sales and support side (firmware updates, etc.) is making me take my account w/6 lines to AT&T. And I may move our corporate account as well (30+) lines. Maybe someday Verizon will stop being a dictator and learn their lessons!

 

[11B1P]

Chicken-and-egg is exactly how I'd describe it.

If Verizon doesn't promote or put a lot of effort into educating customers, it won't sell.

No chicken and egg argument at all. Verizon has to be the first to promote their phones, regardless of customer support. It is their responsibility. Example, when a new pediatrician opens a practice, don't you think it is his/her responsibility to promote the practice, or do you think clients should automatically just know the practice is there and begin going there? Same principal. Don't blame the customer when the company fails to promote their own product.

 

[Mark Morales]

I have it fairly good authority that Verizon is BLOCKING the phones. This isn't a rep thing, this is confirmed by two different sources (from both parties). Though the chips support CDMA, they are apparently disabled (can't activate via VZW). That is why CDMA isn't listed on the phones specs. This bull****,the unlimited data crap, lack of support at the sales and support side (firmware updates, etc.) is making me take my account w/6 lines to AT&T. And I may move our corporate account as well (30+) lines. Maybe someday Verizon will stop being a dictator and learn their lessons!

You are 100% correct. The CDMA radios and LTE band 13 are in the phones (chips) and are intentionally disabled via firmware by Microsoft because Verizon will not certify them for their network. I'm not sure how hard MS pushed on this though and if they are still trying to work a deal to at least allow MS to sell them direct to Verizon corporate customers (yeah I may be dreaming). But this is ridiculous and like you, I'm considering moving a corporate account 70+ device to at&t (not easy to do) but I will at least move my phone over if that's what I need to do to get this 950xl.

 

[Dusan Randj]

It's not that simple in the US. Throughout most all of Europe, cell carriers use the same GSM tech on different bands. A GSM phone will work on all carriers. In the US, not all carriers use GSM. Sprint and Verizon use a tech called CDMA. There's a time coming when that will be irrelevant and LTE will be used for voice and data, but the time where LTE can work on its own to that end is not yet here.

If you bought a phone in Serbia and visited the US, it would not work on all our networks. If you popped a Verizon or Spring SIM in, it would have very limited functionality at best (probably a couple of LTE bands), but it still wouldn't likely work because it needs CDMA to get on that LTE network in the first place.

This two tech system goes back a long way, though back in the 90s it was TDMA vs CDMA.

I know that Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. But there are other carriers that are GSM. And looking at 950's, they support all other carriers.

 

[Mark Morales]

It's not that simple in the US. Throughout most all of Europe, cell carriers use the same GSM tech on different bands. A GSM phone will work on all carriers. In the US, not all carriers use GSM. Sprint and Verizon use a tech called CDMA. There's a time coming when that will be irrelevant and LTE will be used for voice and data, but the time where LTE can work on its own to that end is not yet here.

If you bought a phone in Serbia and visited the US, it would not work on all our networks. If you popped a Verizon or Spring SIM in, it would have very limited functionality at best (probably a couple of LTE bands), but it still wouldn't likely work because it needs CDMA to get on that LTE network in the first place.

This two tech system goes back a long way, though back in the 90s it was TDMA vs CDMA.

I would add that like almost all tech for the past hundred years or so, the US was the first to have ultra widespread cellular deployment. So yeah this goes back a long way. In addition, I'm not sure where the OP is living, but I've been to a lot of places (from China to 1st and 3rd world Europe) with world unlocked phones and have always had some sort of coverage problem when outside of major cities.

 

[Markeyse Jamar Mundy]

Apple only. :angry:

For Now!

 

[SvenJ]

I think this is an awfully long thread of assumptions, which will not be solved until someone gets one and pops a Verizon SIM into it. Note that other 'universal' devices have had issues. Over at an Android forum, I saw "My guess is that IMEIs for the Moto X Pure Edition from Motorola haven’t been loaded into Verizon’s systems yet and that’s why phones can’t be activated." Other sites talk about popping a Verizon SIM into a Nexus of some flavor and if the SIM had been registered it worked, but you couldn't register a new SIM in the phone. I'd say, when we get one, find a friend with a current Verizon SIM, or use your own, and pop it in there, and tweet, post, shout from a minaret, your findings. Short of any official announcement, all this is speculation. I will be getting one of these, though I am on AT&T, and will hunt up a friend with Verizon and try it. To much else to do between now and then to agonize over it.

 

[TexasLabRat]

I think this is an awfully long thread of assumptions, which will not be solved until someone gets one and pops a Verizon SIM into it. Note that other 'universal' devices have had issues. Over at an Android forum, I saw "My guess is that IMEIs for the Moto X Pure Edition from Motorola haven’t been loaded into Verizon’s systems yet and that’s why phones can’t be activated." Other sites talk about popping a Verizon SIM into a Nexus of some flavor and if the SIM had been registered it worked, but you couldn't register a new SIM in the phone. I'd say, when we get one, find a friend with a current Verizon SIM, or use your own, and pop it in there, and tweet, post, shout from a minaret, your findings. Short of any official announcement, all this is speculation. I will be getting one of these, though I am on AT&T, and will hunt up a friend with Verizon and try it. To much else to do between now and then to agonize over it.

If the FCC certification did not include Verizon bands, it would be illegal to operate the phone on those frequencies. Hence, one can assume they are locked out in firmware. I haven't been able to locate the certification paperwork for the 950XL (RM-1116), but device RM-1085 looks very very similar (dual cellular antennas, etc) and does not have Verizon bands. So yes, not conclusive proof but I wouldn't go betting any valuable body parts that it's going to work.

 

[dkediger]

I know that Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. But there are other carriers that are GSM. And looking at 950's, they support all other carriers.

In the US, its also a matter of geographical area, population densities, and frequency allocations.

Where I live, ATT has very poor to nonexistent coverage while Verizon has very, very good coverage. Its a historical artifact, as our first carriers were small, CDMA based regionals. They built the customers bases, and operated in the frequencies that made their consolidation under Verizon foregone conclusions.

ATT meanwhile, had almost no access to frequency in my area until they converted to GSM. By that time however, everyone was already a customer of a CDMA carrier, and eventually, Verizon. ATT simply felt they couldn't peel enough customers away from Verizon to make extensive network investments. They'll support coverage along Interstate highway routes, but that's about it.

 

[ajj3085]

Temporary ? Sure Verizon and Sprint are going away from CDMA and going to LTE that is a GSM based tech but, this transition will take YEARS to be fully moved to LTE. Verizon claims they have the best coverage is because they can DEPEND on their 3G/CDMA network in dead spots, this will be like this for many years to come.

By the time Verizon and Sprint at 100% away from 3g/CDMA (5-10 years) with Microsoft's choices here, Windows Phone will not even be an option for a phone.

Think about it....

I don't think whether or not you can get a windows phone on Verizon or not matters for the future of windows phone. They'll fix their dead spots like att does, by building a new tower. And in a few years Verizon will be GSM and we won't have such nonsense anymore. Honestly Verizons lockin is why i switched to ATT years ago. That and their absolute **** customer service

 

[ajj3085]

And in a few months if another new Lumia is announced for Verizon you will make this call again and switch again?
I have never understood people that switch carriers because of a new phone. It sounds so ridiculous.
Even if that is ONE of your reasons for switching, do not put it out there as the primary reason. Saying it is your only reason for switching, you come across as someone that has his/her priorities out of order, and very fickle.

Fickle? who the hell cares about their carrier? they're all interchangeable. Given that, why not go for the phone you want? That's what the rest of the world does, just pop in a new sim.

 

[Guzzler3]

Paul Thurrott has an interesting article, "https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/windows-phone/6746/your-fear-of-limited-lumia-availability-is-misplaced" to read about this.

In the comments section there is feedback from someone who went to an MS Store and was told it's not that the Verizon radio bands aren't in the chipset (which they are by default in both the 808 and 810), it's that MS has specifically locked out CDMA and band 13 in firmware. Which follows back to what Paul was told by MS execs about carrier relationships.

Welcome to the MATRIX.

People, people, it's all about CONTROL. Specifically, who controls the updates to the phone. How many of us gotten hosed because the CARRIER delayed, or just didn't allow updates to our phone?

W10, is a dynamic O/S, meaning that MS is always updating something in the core O/S or firmware. Currently, most of our phones in the USA are branded, carrier locked, meaning that if MS has a core O/S or firmware update, it is sent to the carriers, which is then sent to the phone. Right now the carrier is control, because they don't always allow the updates out. Remember all the discussions of who got the Black, and Denim firmware updates? Remember how people got pissed off because the carrier wouldn't validate the firmware? I can tell you that Microsoft remembers!

Microsoft is tired of all of this. They are changing the game, like Apple did, they are trying to get rid of the carrier bottleneck. I have a feeling that they struck a deal with AT&T that AT&T will not hamstring or delay any updates this time, and just allow Microsoft to push out the updates (or at least I hope this is true).

Because of the nature of GSM this allows Microsoft to offer directly from their store an unlocked, unbranded phone which you just put in a SIM card and go. The problem is with CDMA...

Right now CDMA requires extra testing, and approval of the carrier. Verizon wants control, period. But MS wants and needs control, like Apple, to provide a consistent experience on W10M. Until these two come to an agreement that basically bypasses Verizon for any updates, things aren't going to change.

The best thing Verizon users can do, is continue to complain to Verizon about wanting the 950/950XL. Hopefully, with enough shouting, this might cause Verizon to rethink about who has control of the updates and just let Microsoft do the heavy lifting of testing and pushing out updates.

Because as others have pointed out, the chipset in the phone does support CDMA, it just isn't turned on. Theoretically, it's just a firmware update to "flip a bit" and turn on all the CDMA bands.

 

[bulls96]

I asked Paul Thurrot on twitter if the unlocked versions will work on Verizon and he said No.

 

[oldpueblo]

He says it well here, guys everyone just needs to show Verizon your displeasure. Sadly we all know they'll ignore it and the only way to really prove it is with your money. Those of you that have no other choice other than Verizon, I feel you bros.

(skip to 45:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDrjNzzzK-0&feature=youtu.be&t=2706

 

[Dusan Randj]

In the US, its also a matter of geographical area, population densities, and frequency allocations.

Where I live, ATT has very poor to nonexistent coverage while Verizon has very, very good coverage. Its a historical artifact, as our first carriers were small, CDMA based regionals. They built the customers bases, and operated in the frequencies that made their consolidation under Verizon foregone conclusions.

ATT meanwhile, had almost no access to frequency in my area until they converted to GSM. By that time however, everyone was already a customer of a CDMA carrier, and eventually, Verizon. ATT simply felt they couldn't peel enough customers away from Verizon to make extensive network investments. They'll support coverage along Interstate highway routes, but that's about it.

Man, that really sucks. It really sounds like they are ripping you off, paying so much and not having good coverage... Well..

 

[MikeSo]

From Thurrott's article

Microsoft has conceded the smart phone market. There isn?t some secret super-push to get Windows phones into the hands of carriers, folks. Microsoft is simply doing what it has to do. It is selling phones via friendly carriers and via its own store. And that?s it.

This isn?t bad news. It?s the best we can do given the failure of Windows phone in the marketplace. And rather than fret over a carrier-locked phone ?only? selling via AT&T, what we should be doing is celebrating that we can buy any of these new phones, directly from Microsoft, in unlocked form, and for hundreds of dollars less than equivalent Samsung or iPhone flagships. This is good news, not bad news.

Exactly. This is where we are now, and it's actually BETTER than before. With the exception of Verizon customers on contract, everyone else is better off - we can buy an unlocked, unbranded Windows Phone directly from Microsoft, getting regular updates.

The big question mark is what this will do to apps - but let's face it, that issue wouldn't have been solved with a Verizon phone.

All in all, we as "Windows Phone enthusiasts" have it better with this model than the previous carrier-based one.

 

[ajj3085]

OK, then what you write doesn't mean the same as what you are thinking. You say "allow" when you should say "support". To me, not allowing means that it will not work; it will be blocked. The way you say "not allow", that makes me think along the lines of "blacklist". Maybe my English comprehension is bad!

I do not know about the legality of blocking phones, but as far as I know Verizon has never done it. What makes you think they would?

I think your comprehension is off, and allowed as he's been using it is fine. Not allowed does mean you'd be blocked. Verizon has a whitelist. If you're not on the whitelist you can't activate your SIM. Once the SIM is active though the IMEI isn't checked again against the whitelist (but would be against the blacklist, for stolen phones). Sprint has a whitelist too, and always checks IMEI regardless of whether the SIM is active. Not on the list, no access. They don't need a blacklist though, they just remove the phone from the whitelist and it's blocked.

The fact that you can workaround Verizon's method isn't really relevant, and i suspect is something newish. They have a history of controlling what can use their network, the argument being if they didn't control it people would blame them when really the issue might be the phone's hardware or software. I believe they used to more aggressively block devices, but tolerate the workaround today. But since someone said if you do that it shows on your account page as non vzw, i suspect if you have a problem and try calling them they'll tell out to pound sand because you didn't get your phone from them.

I doubt there'd be any legal issue with blocking models of phones, as they had done just that for years. And they'd just say they are concerned about the model behaving badly on their network, or maybe just to say FU to MS.