12-17-2015 09:30 PM
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  1. afripino's Avatar
    As a Verizon user still holding onto his discontinued Lumia Icon, I definitely found it unfortunate that Verizon doesn't want to "play ball" and continue supporting WM10. As one of the largest carriers in the US, I think WM10 doesn't stand a chance if it can't get adoption on VZW. I hope they can make a deal, but things are looking pretty bleak at this time. The problem is, both users AND devs will have to switch to AT&T in order for WM10 to thrive and that's just wishing for a miracle.
    10-20-2015 10:46 AM
  2. Jeddic's Avatar
    Windows has been able to sustain a user base without carrier any real carrier support for years. Over the last few years, carrier support ranged from phones being carried in stores, but tucked away in a corner, to phones being carried, but salespeople doing everything they can to dissuade people from buying them. When you consider this situation, along with no flagships in some time, the update situation, and the stiff competition, the fact that WP has held onto 3% in the US is pretty good. If they can just bring feature parity in some major features, and fix the update issues with these new flagships, they'll be in a better situation than they have been.

    As far as W10M dying goes though, nothing can kill it but Microsoft. MS is committed to having a mobile OS, so even if no one used it, they would support it as part of their business strategy.
    10-20-2015 10:58 AM
  3. Tumultus's Avatar
    Well, the world doesn't stop on the US borders, so, as sad as it may be for US customers, 1 single US network provider doesn't make nor break a mobile platform on a global scale. Windows Phone is more popular outside of North America anyway. :)
    10-20-2015 10:59 AM
  4. theefman's Avatar
    Yeah right, without Verizon W10M is doomed, DOOMED I tell ya!
    10-20-2015 11:29 AM
  5. bo_woods's Avatar
    No, because Verizon alone (the most expensive US carrier there is to my knowledge) doesn't determine the fate of an entire OS.

    The new Lumia 950 & 950 XL devices have Unlocked versions that will work on any other GSM carrier. Which is what I believe most carriers use outside of the U.S. One single U.S carrier being uninvolved is a small percentage of potential users being left out when compared to the many global GSM carriers there are. As for these other GSM carriers who aren't carrying the devices, the 950 & 950 XL can once agian eb bought unlocked. For those of us who dont want to pay full up front price of a Smartphoen and instead like a small downpayment with monthly installments, we can only hope Microsoft will one day add that addition to our methods of purchase. Verizon never treated WP nicely anyway. They would just carry the phone, slap their logo on it, rarely push updates and never advertise it. Their so called "support" won't be missed by anyone but the very few Verizon users wanting WP that there are.

    Now onto my second point. LUMIA IS JUST ONE PRODUCT FAMILY!! just because these two Lumia's aren't supported by Big Red doesn't mean Samsung, HTC, or Huawei can't get a WP10 device on their network. WP10 is an OS and I'm pretty sure other OEM's will jump in and spread the availability of W10 mobile.

    Lastly these phones are Flagships. They are Top Notch and High Quality. Although high spec'd high quality flagship phones may be very common in the U.S, in other countries apparently cheap phones are the thing. The cheap phones that come are going to sell more anyway as many parts of the world can't afford these jewels of tech. For people who want a cheap W10 mobile device, there will be options and for people who want an expensive high quality W10 mobile device, there will be options (even on Verizon... eventually)
    philharmonik and wpn00b like this.
    10-20-2015 11:45 AM
  6. tuxedo323's Avatar
    3rd party manufacturers should fill in the void.
    10-20-2015 11:50 AM
  7. bo_woods's Avatar
    Why are people analyzing their reasonably small scale issues with the predicament of the situation and concluding that it will lead to the fall of the entire cause?
    10-20-2015 11:56 AM
  8. Rose640's Avatar
    After the Lumia 640 launch, more and more people are getting interested in these phones and the platform. Lumia 640 ads are on about 150 out of 200 channels i have, including Fox, Nat Geo and similar. So, i think they're going in the right direction. As far as i can see they have a great carrier support here in Balcan, all major ones have their phones on sale at incredibly affordable prices, for our region at least.
    I think they can do well without the Verizon when we look at the greater picture.
    10-20-2015 11:58 AM
  9. afripino's Avatar
    Why are people analyzing their reasonably small scale issues with the predicament of the situation and concluding that it will lead to the fall of the entire cause?
    Because Verizon's numbers are nothing to overlook. 3% of the US is still larger than 11.9% marketshare in GB and other smaller countries. With VZW being THE LARGEST carrier in the US with 133 million subscribers, you can pretty much count out any marketshare growth which will probably lead to marketshare drop as some VZW WM10 users will upgrade their antiquated Icons to iPhone/Android devices rather than switch carrier and you can bet that will not help dev incentive for creating apps that truly help grow the market. It's not a small scale issue. The US is a major market and VZW is a major carrier.
    10-20-2015 03:52 PM
  10. Tumultus's Avatar
    Because Verizon's numbers are nothing to overlook. 3% of the US is still larger than 11.9% marketshare in GB and other smaller countries. With VZW being THE LARGEST carrier in the US with 133 million subscribers, you can pretty much count out any marketshare growth which will probably lead to marketshare drop as some VZW WM10 users will upgrade their antiquated Icons to iPhone/Android devices rather than switch carrier and you can bet that will not help dev incentive for creating apps that truly help grow the market. It's not a small scale issue. The US is a major market and VZW is a major carrier.
    Except, those Verizon numbers are dwarfed when looking at the Asian market. I know it is difficult because people only see their own little world. For the US, it probably has a huge impact when the largest provider doesn't put Windows devices on the shelf, however, even Verizon can't keep that up forever if there is increasing customer demand. So, let's all be glad that at least AT&T is carrying the 950 and that Microsoft will sell the devices unlocked to be used with any other carrier.
    aximtreo and wpn00b like this.
    10-20-2015 04:02 PM
  11. afripino's Avatar
    So we're comparing a country to a continent now? Name one mobile OS that is successful without a US user base.
    10-20-2015 04:14 PM
  12. Tumultus's Avatar
    So we're comparing a country to a continent now?
    If you're referring to my post, then, yeah, I have to because you compared the United States to GB and other smaller countries. If you want equality, you would have to compare, say, Texas to GB or Arkansas to Germany. Otherwise, you should compare the US to the European Union. If you don't follow your own rules, I'll compare the US to the Asian market - as simple as that! :)
    rmeigs, mininv, aximtreo and 1 others like this.
    10-20-2015 04:18 PM
  13. Krystianpants's Avatar
    There's actually good information that ms may be waiting for full production units on an rtm w10 mobile before it certifies on Verizon network. They are required to do by a third party and FCC rules mandate Verizon can't block once certified. So cdma band may be enabled either at launch or shortly after with firmware update.
    10-20-2015 04:26 PM
  14. afripino's Avatar
    Ok...so we'll go with the Asian market. What are the marketshare figures for Asia? 2.3% in China. I'm sure with those figures we can just forget about VZW in the US then and still bank on success. /s
    jmf337 likes this.
    10-20-2015 04:46 PM
  15. Tumultus's Avatar
    Ok...so we'll go with the Asian market. What are the marketshare figures for Asia? 2.3% in China. I'm sure with those figures we can just forget about VZW in the US then and still bank on success. /s
    Except for the fact that 2.3% in China is far more users than 3% in the US. Boy! Have a look at the population count before you dismiss small percentages!
    10-20-2015 04:53 PM
  16. afripino's Avatar
    I'm not dismissing China, you're dismissing the US. The combination of small, single digit marketshares means they need to reach AS MANY people as they can.
    10-20-2015 04:55 PM
  17. a5cent's Avatar
    Name one mobile OS that is successful without a US user base.
    Well, it's debatable, but we could count AOSP as such an OS.

    It has 0% market share in the U.S. , yet it's extremely successful in Asia and Russia. It's the reason Android is counted as having 85% market share, because AOSP and Android are somewhat incorrectly counted as being the same thing. For every official Android device sold in the world, two are sold running AOSP.

    As far as global market share is concerned, China is now more important than the U.S. WP having around 2% market share in China is by far the most significant contributor to WP's low world wide market share number.
    10-20-2015 04:56 PM
  18. Tumultus's Avatar
    I'm not dismissing China, you're dismissing the US. The combination of small, single digit marketshares means they need to reach AS MANY people as they can.
    No, I am not dismissing the US. Just sticking to the topic starter's concern that not being on Verizon may kill the operating system.
    10-20-2015 04:57 PM
  19. Tumultus's Avatar
    Well, it's debatable, but we could count AOSP as such an OS.

    It has 0% market share in the U.S. , yet it's extremely successful in Asia and Russia. It's the reason Android is counted as having 85% market share, because AOSP and Android are somewhat incorrectly counted as being the same thing. For every official Android device sold in the world, two are sold running Android AOSP.

    As far as market share is concerned, China is now more important than the U.S. WP having 0% market share in China is by far the most significant contributor to WP's low world wide market share number.
    Nokia's Symbian was such an operating system. Almost no traction in the US but market leader anywhere else.
    a5cent likes this.
    10-20-2015 04:59 PM
  20. afripino's Avatar
    WAS is the key word there.
    Jazmac likes this.
    10-20-2015 05:06 PM
  21. Tumultus's Avatar
    WAS is the key word there.
    Oh, give it up already! Even iOS and Android will be replaced some day! If you want to discuss this any further, why don't you start a new topic? This just doesn't fit into the OT's question.
    10-20-2015 05:08 PM
  22. a5cent's Avatar
    WAS is the key word there.
    I think you're missing the point. Blackberry was popular primarily in north America, but it too is now a "has been". Being successful, no matter if it's in the U.S. or elsewhere, doesn't guarantee you'll remain successful. The point is that Symbian was at one point the most successful mobile OS in the world, without being relevant in the U.S. It's not its unpopularity in the U.S. that was Symbian's downfall however, but rather its inability to keep up with the big software companies, which was also Blackberry's undoing.
    Last edited by a5cent; 10-21-2015 at 05:25 PM. Reason: spelling
    10-20-2015 05:09 PM
  23. bo_woods's Avatar
    Because Verizon's numbers are nothing to overlook. 3% of the US is still larger than 11.9% marketshare in GB and other smaller countries. With VZW being THE LARGEST carrier in the US with 133 million subscribers, you can pretty much count out any marketshare growth which will probably lead to marketshare drop as some VZW WM10 users will upgrade their antiquated Icons to iPhone/Android devices rather than switch carrier and you can bet that will not help dev incentive for creating apps that truly help grow the market. It's not a small scale issue. The US is a major market and VZW is a major carrier.
    It's is a small scale issue when it comes down to the fact that budget phones are the key to the growth of Windows Phone. Now if we were saying Flagship Lumia devices were doomed due to lack of carrier support then it would be different. But regardless, Verizon's lack of commitment is only relevant here in the states. Window Phone will continue to be relevant around the globe in other places, particularly budget minded markets.

    As for the U.S, saying Windows Phone is doomed in the U.S because Verizon isn't carrying the 950 or 950 XL is like saying Windows Phone would be dead if the ICON and 928 were never created. Which would be false, as budget phones (520,620,etc), and really eye catching mind blowing devices such as the 920, 1020 and 1520 kept the Windows Phone platform talked about and relevant, holding onto their small spot here in the good ol' states.

    Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.
    920Walker and paul swann1 like this.
    10-20-2015 06:07 PM
  24. bo_woods's Avatar
    Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.

    Now do things really seem that bad?
    920Walker likes this.
    10-20-2015 06:07 PM
  25. Chris Phelps's Avatar
    There is one other thing to keep in mind. Part of the stipulation to the sale of the 700mhz spectrum VZW uses requires the network to be open. In other words, as long as the phone supports the correct CDMA bands, Verizon cannot block activation. I am sure they will try... and I am sure the complaints will start pouring in to the FCC. The same thing happened when they were pushing to block wifi hotspots and tethering.

    Rumor has it (and it's still just a rumor) that the 950/XL will have those bands disabled, but I think Microsoft would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did that. They should just leave the bands enabled and let the customers who want the phones do their legwork with the FCC.
    10-20-2015 09:41 PM
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