Without Verizon support, is WM10 DOA?

[a5cent]

Being a Canadian, and following Canadian businesses, I can assure you that blackberry fell from grace not because of the inability to keep up, but the total lack of leadership at the critical time when smartphones were coming of age.





He [CEO Jimmy] let blackberry just coast on what they had. By the time he lost the war with the NHL, blackberry was far behind, and he lost his position as CEO.

If a company just coasts and then falls behind, for whatever reason, and is then unable to regain their position, what else is that other than the inability to keep up? I didn't mean to imply that the engineering teams weren't equally capable.


Nokia did have engineering issues, but more importantly Nokia, BB and MS all had leadership teams that rested on their laurels. They all failed to keep up with software innovations in the mobile space for similar reasons.

 

[Steve Adams]

I don't think Nokia or MS is resting on their laurels, the 1020 is an amazing phone, the whole 900 series and 1520 are amazing phones. The issue there is marketing. There was literally no marketing, no hype.... nothing for all these devices. Compare that to crapple who pushes their crap like crazy. Even still. MS has a growth coming this time around. Because the app gap will be closed this time around, the hardware they are developing is miles ahead and moving forward, where as crapple is the one now resting on their laurels and will slide further and MS will make up ground on them in the next couple of years!

 

[millercrew5]

Good thing is the 950 and 950XL is gonna be on AT&T but unlocked it will work on T-Mo so there are two really good carriers! Verizon thinks they can control the mobile market and we bow to them but forget them! Verizon sucks!


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[Erik Latranyi]

Windows 10 and Surface are major hits. This is causing many people to take a second look at Windows Mobile 10. Once people see the familiarity between Windows 10 on a PC and on a phone, the numbers will grow.

Verizon, once again, is out of step with the times and trends in the industry. Verizon will start to lose customers to AT&T and they will flip-flop faster than a politician a day before the election.

 

[a5cent]

I don't think Nokia or MS is resting on their laurels, the 1020 is an amazing phone, the whole 900 series and 1520 are amazing phones.

We have a bit of a communications problem here.

I said they RESTED on their laurels. I didn't say they are still doing so today.

Anyway, all three companies inability to keep up were OS and ecosystem related issues (software, not hardware). That's much harder to get right than hardware, a lot costlier to do, and something that is almost impossible to do well in a company that is predominantly driven by a hardware-culture (BB, Nokia).

 

[tgp]

Verizon, once again, is out of step with the times and trends in the industry. Verizon will start to lose customers to AT&T and they will flip-flop faster than a politician a day before the election.

You do realize, don't you, that this affects almost nobody? Probably 99% (or more) of Verizon's customers have no clue about unlocked phones or CDMA or Lumia 950.

What we have here is a few people complaining about not being able to use the phone they want on Verizon, not a mass mutiny. Verizon might lose a few customers to AT&T over it, but customers jump carriers all the time. I'm sure the difference in the rate due to this will not be a measurable amount.

 

[aelwyn]

The lack of Verizon support certainly doesn't help WM10... but you could also look at it from the other side: not supporting the 950 phones is hurting Verizon.

I'm currently a T-Mobile customer, but the service in this area is garbage. While I like how the company does business, I've been planning to switch to Verizon for the better coverage. However, I was blown away by the Microsoft keynote earlier this month, and I'm now about 90% certain I'll be getting the 950 XL when it's available. That means, effectively, that Verizon has lost a potential customer. I know from past experience that AT&T works just fine in this area, so that's who I'll be going with.

So, when discussing the impact that Verizon will have on WM10, I think you have to remember that if the device and OS are compelling enough, people will go where they must to get it. Remember, the iPhone was initially an AT&T exclusive... and, in the end, it did okay.

Sure, it would be better for WM10 for Verizon to support the 950 phones... but it would also be better for Verizon if they supported them. That's why the situation is so frustrating... you'd think both Microsoft and Verizon would be falling all over themselves to work something out. One (or both) is apparently being obstinate.

 

[Paul Cordova]

The only ones with apple devices were Children, hipsters, and homeless people

Wow you think social programs are excessive in America? LOL

Verizon most definitely won't kill WM but it won't help much either. I don't see windows gaining any more market share either. In fact I would hazard a guess its market share will stagnate at best if not even drop a bit. I'm upset over the deal but I can tell you I tried the protest route and noticed that posts on Verizon boards rarely had more than 50 people posting.

However I think the Verizon issue as much MS issue as a Verizon issue. The Icon got little support form either (I know I had one)

I think the most successful phones will have both manufacturer and carrier support. Obviously MS thinks it doesn't need carrier support. People are focused on Verizon but what about Sprint, T-mobile and anybody besides AT&T?

Nexus has had very negligible market share with only unlocked phones. It just makes phone even more of a niche phone IMO.

I've left the WP market for now, purchasing a Note 5 since I had done apple prior to WP and saw nothing new there. I have too much money tied up into other family phones that switching was cost prohibitive and senseless. I did pay down 50% of this phone up front though and I will return if MS makes a better offer of wanting my business and not expecting it.

 

[theefman]

Vote with your wallet and stop giving Verizon money.

Seriously, I think this concept is just too foreign to "loyal" Verizon users.....

 

[garak0410]

I've left the WP market for now, purchasing a Note 5 since I had done apple prior to WP and saw nothing new there. I have too much money tied up into other family phones that switching was cost prohibitive and senseless. I did pay down 50% of this phone up front though and I will return if MS makes a better offer of wanting my business and not expecting it.

Paul...I just spent 5 Days with a Note 5 and will be posting a forum post or a freelance article on a tech site about my experiences with it as a Windows Phone fan and "all in" with Microsoft Ecosystem. In a quick summary, the Note 5 felt like a real PC in my pocket and feels more useful but I still prefer to be all in with Microsoft and love the elegance of Windows Phone. Today, I am back on my ICON...which phone I have this weekend remains to be seen. (side note...CORTANA works way better than expected on the Note 5)

 

[Steve Adams]

Wow you think social programs are excessive in America? LOL

Verizon most definitely won't kill WM but it won't help much either. I don't see windows gaining any more market share either. In fact I would hazard a guess its market share will stagnate at best if not even drop a bit. I'm upset over the deal but I can tell you I tried the protest route and noticed that posts on Verizon boards rarely had more than 50 people posting.

However I think the Verizon issue as much MS issue as a Verizon issue. The Icon got little support form either (I know I had one)

I think the most successful phones will have both manufacturer and carrier support. Obviously MS thinks it doesn't need carrier support. People are focused on Verizon but what about Sprint, T-mobile and anybody besides AT&T?

Nexus has had very negligible market share with only unlocked phones. It just makes phone even more of a niche phone IMO.

I've left the WP market for now, purchasing a Note 5 since I had done apple prior to WP and saw nothing new there. I have too much money tied up into other family phones that switching was cost prohibitive and senseless. I did pay down 50% of this phone up front though and I will return if MS makes a better offer of wanting my business and not expecting it.

HA ha. I was making a joke about the hipsters that sit in coffee shops and dress and look dishevelled because they are "expressing themselves". They really do look homeless. There are a group of hipsters that the guys wear fluffy floppy scarves, skinny jeans and greased back hair, then there are the homeless'sters. This category of hipster dresses from the dumpster at the local thrift store, finding the dirtiest, most disgusting clothes. They do not shower or wash their hair for weeks and typically look homeless besides the fact they are sipping on a fippymochajokasteamylattefrapachino style abomination, and typing their latest book or screen play on their crappy apple products.

I actually saw a couple of people put money in their coffee cups.

 

[Steve Adams]

Paul...I just spent 5 Days with a Note 5 and will be posting a forum post or a freelance article on a tech site about my experiences with it as a Windows Phone fan and "all in" with Microsoft Ecosystem. In a quick summary, the Note 5 felt like a real PC in my pocket and feels more useful but I still prefer to be all in with Microsoft and love the elegance of Windows Phone. Today, I am back on my ICON...which phone I have this weekend remains to be seen. (side note...CORTANA works way better than expected on the Note 5)

I think you will be very happy with the 950xl by the sounds of it.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

Except, those Verizon numbers are dwarfed when looking at the Asian market.

Windows phone's performance in Asian markets has fared even worse than the U.S.
In China alone, Windows phone devices shrank from 2%-3%, down to less than half of 1%.
In Japan, it's non-existent, and from what I understand the numbers are going the wrong way in India as well.

Without Asia or North America, I doubt Windows phones can maintain a beachhead in.....Italy and Romania.

 

[Johnny Tremaine]

HA ha. I was making a joke about the hipsters that sit in coffee shops and dress and look dishevelled because they are "expressing themselves". They really do look homeless. There are a group of hipsters that the guys wear fluffy floppy scarves, skinny jeans and greased back hair, then there are the homeless'sters. This category of hipster dresses from the dumpster at the local thrift store, finding the dirtiest, most disgusting clothes. They do not shower or wash their hair for weeks and typically look homeless besides the fact they are sipping on a fippymochajokasteamylattefrapachino style abomination, and typing their latest book or screen play on their crappy apple products.

I actually saw a couple of people put money in their coffee cups.

I'm wondering, do your glasses go askew when you look down your nose at people?

 

[Paul Cordova]

Paul...I just spent 5 Days with a Note 5 and will be posting a forum post or a freelance article on a tech site about my experiences with it as a Windows Phone fan and "all in" with Microsoft Ecosystem. In a quick summary, the Note 5 felt like a real PC in my pocket and feels more useful but I still prefer to be all in with Microsoft and love the elegance of Windows Phone. Today, I am back on my ICON...which phone I have this weekend remains to be seen. (side note...CORTANA works way better than expected on the Note 5)

I don't want to dis MS but I was running WM TP 10 on my Icon and going to the Note is like night and day. No more loading screens super fast. I love the phone and it's a great piece of hardware but I'd go back to MS. I still have my MS band which works well on the note. Also my surface Pro 3 and Xbox so I'm not abandoning MS. Just the mobile platform for now.

 

[Willelmus]

People don't get that although in absolute numbers Verizon's market share might not matter on a global scale, those numbers do mater when it comes to image. Lie it or not but most app developers are in the US, the only that matters for them is the perception they have of the market. And most don't care about market share in Europe or Asia, heck most phone apps don't even function outside of America. To have lived in both Europe and America in the pat years, I can tell you, the app market is just not the same outside of the US. The ubiquity of credit cards and spending money makes Americans far more interesting to developers than any other people. Plus, most tech news outlets (influential ones at least) are Americans. And call us short-sighted (because we are) and self-centered (because we are), fact is we don't really care what happens outside of the country. Tech journalist have the same attitude and its reflected by their work.
For devs to be interested in a phone OS, unless they're a local company, the OS needs to be successful in the US. An getting Verizon support is a big part of that.

 

[littlebib]

For devs to be interested in a phone OS, unless they're a local company, the OS needs to be successful in the US. An getting Verizon support is a big part of that.

Agree with this 100%. I really think MS screwed up big time here. There's no set list of phones running WM10, there's no release date even for the 950/950xl, and no Verizon support. MS should have just held off announcing anything until they could come in "guns blazing" and announce products supporting all the major carriers. They didn't. Unfortunately, my work phone is a 928 on Verizon and is dying so I need to replace it. With basically no positive information about Windows on Verizon, I'm jumping ship and getting an iPhone. Sad to do so, but like the original post here, I think the writing is on the wall. Maybe in a couple of years when my new phone is dying I'll get to come back. I hope so, but I doubt it.

 

[Paul Cordova]

I'd like to point to a few people that Verizon has NEVER supported WM 10. Those of us that ran it ran a tech preview. It's never been a Verizon feature and took forever to get 8.1.

 

[bono1979]

The nexus 5x and 6p phones aren't certified for Verizon as long as you have an activated nano SIM it will work on Verizon if you need to get a Sims then you have trouble getting one from Verizon so why doesn't ms sell the phone with all bands

 

[garak0410]

I think you will be very happy with the 950xl by the sounds of it.

I would be if I could get one...

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