Without Verizon support, is WM10 DOA?

[Tumultus]

WAS is the key word there.

Oh, give it up already! Even iOS and Android will be replaced some day! If you want to discuss this any further, why don't you start a new topic? This just doesn't fit into the OT's question.

 

[a5cent]

WAS is the key word there.

I think you're missing the point. Blackberry was popular primarily in north America, but it too is now a "has been". Being successful, no matter if it's in the U.S. or elsewhere, doesn't guarantee you'll remain successful. The point is that Symbian was at one point the most successful mobile OS in the world, without being relevant in the U.S. It's not its unpopularity in the U.S. that was Symbian's downfall however, but rather its inability to keep up with the big software companies, which was also Blackberry's undoing.

 

[bo_woods]

Because Verizon's numbers are nothing to overlook. 3% of the US is still larger than 11.9% marketshare in GB and other smaller countries. With VZW being THE LARGEST carrier in the US with 133 million subscribers, you can pretty much count out any marketshare growth which will probably lead to marketshare drop as some VZW WM10 users will upgrade their antiquated Icons to iPhone/Android devices rather than switch carrier and you can bet that will not help dev incentive for creating apps that truly help grow the market. It's not a small scale issue. The US is a major market and VZW is a major carrier.

It's is a small scale issue when it comes down to the fact that budget phones are the key to the growth of Windows Phone. Now if we were saying Flagship Lumia devices were doomed due to lack of carrier support then it would be different. But regardless, Verizon's lack of commitment is only relevant here in the states. Window Phone will continue to be relevant around the globe in other places, particularly budget minded markets.

As for the U.S, saying Windows Phone is doomed in the U.S because Verizon isn't carrying the 950 or 950 XL is like saying Windows Phone would be dead if the ICON and 928 were never created. Which would be false, as budget phones (520,620,etc), and really eye catching mind blowing devices such as the 920, 1020 and 1520 kept the Windows Phone platform talked about and relevant, holding onto their small spot here in the good ol' states.

Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.

 

[bo_woods]

Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.

Now do things really seem that bad?

 

[Chris Phelps]

There is one other thing to keep in mind. Part of the stipulation to the sale of the 700mhz spectrum VZW uses requires the network to be open. In other words, as long as the phone supports the correct CDMA bands, Verizon cannot block activation. I am sure they will try... and I am sure the complaints will start pouring in to the FCC. The same thing happened when they were pushing to block wifi hotspots and tethering.

Rumor has it (and it's still just a rumor) that the 950/XL will have those bands disabled, but I think Microsoft would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did that. They should just leave the bands enabled and let the customers who want the phones do their legwork with the FCC.

 

[kwright62]

I've talked with many friends that have ordered new Microsoft Surface 4s and Surface books. Guess what they want to try: My Icon.

The 950 will ramp things up for the OS but the Surface phone is really going to impact the number of people using Windows.

I'm dumping Verizon for the 950XL and will not return when they do pick up the 950.

 

[Polychrome]

There is one other thing to keep in mind. Part of the stipulation to the sale of the 700mhz spectrum VZW uses requires the network to be open. In other words, as long as the phone supports the correct CDMA bands, Verizon cannot block activation. I am sure they will try... and I am sure the complaints will start pouring in to the FCC. The same thing happened when they were pushing to block wifi hotspots and tethering.

Rumor has it (and it's still just a rumor) that the 950/XL will have those bands disabled, but I think Microsoft would be shooting themselves in the foot if they did that. They should just leave the bands enabled and let the customers who want the phones do their legwork with the FCC.

They can't and won't block anything. However, there's only one of me to run around responding to this FUD that keeps getting repeated, so I'd really appreciate it if more people could pass this around and help me combat it. *phew*

Asian carriers have been using CDMA on SIM cards for years. Long before VZW did. I've run into foreign devices that work just fine on VZW. As long as they support all the technologies in question, they are good to go. I ran into three asian devices last week that did not come from our network.

HOWEVER, if you try to activate an IMEI that is not from Verizon on a fresh SIM, the billing system will not understand how to provision it. In order to activate the device, you will need to input an IMEI of a device with similar features on the switch side as the one you are trying to activate. (So for example, if you've got some sort of WP "global" phone that supports everything, don't try to activate it using an iPhone's IMEI or the voicemail may have issues.) The IMEI may come from a device that is already in use, it will not harm the service of the person using it. (So, you can use one from a friend's phone.) For WP devices, you'll want an IMEI from a WP or Android device. You may also need to take VoLTE into consideration, as newer WP devices support it.

Another consideration is you will have to have the "provisioning" IMEI on hand for reps to perform calling plan changes for you. (Alternatively you can just stick the SIM back into a verizon device and you'll be able to do it from My Verizon.)

Once everything is provisioned, stick the SIM into the device you want to use. It should program itself, report the correct IMEI to the switch, and be good to go.

I CANNOT REPEAT THIS ENOUGH!!!!!!! The ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY IMEI "blocking" of any kind on VZW is the lost/stolen list. And you'll know you're being blocked, because it'll suspend your line if you try to use a stolen device. There have been no reports of people being suspended from Verizon's service just for getting experimental in what kind of device they stick their SIM in.

 

[horseybob]

when the 950 shows up in the local Microsoft Store, I'll be taking my US globally unlocked Verizon 928 with secure SIM in to see if I can make calls, etc. on a 950 unlocked phone using my SIM. On VZW. Should be entertaining if nothing else. Better than being at work, right? :wink:

 

[Polychrome]

when the 950 shows up in the local Microsoft Store, I'll be taking my US globally unlocked Verizon 928 with secure SIM in to see if I can make calls, etc. on a 950 unlocked phone using my SIM. On VZW. Should be entertaining if nothing else. Better than being at work, right? :wink:

Hehehe.

Well, I mean, if they've said they've removed the ability for the device to operate on CDMA, then I doubt it'll work.

This is purely speculation on my part, but I suspect LG or HTC may have a phone or two up their sleeve. I know both of them supposedly wanted to release windows 10 devices, and there have been rumors about this for awhile. I don't think we'll see any OEM devices until windows 10 mobile is officially released however.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Think of this new beginning as the 920 launch all over again (without the 928 ever coming into existence), except this time the 1520 is there alongside the 920, both devices have the latest modern specs, new features that other platforms don't have, a revolutionary OS, and a much much more promising future.

Now do things really seem that bad?

The 920 and the 1520 were more compelling devices. You also had the 820 with the 920 and actual color options for each. Good times.

 

[horseybob]

VZW doesn't define my choice of a world phone. New country, new SIM. Costs less. My 928 worked perfectly across ask, emea and ap. Merely costs less using a local SIM than VZW International. 950 dual SIM will work for me until Surface arises. Sorry, enterprise guy. Doesn't work for me? Next. Family, next.

 

[garak0410]

I've been with Windows Phone since my Cingular 8125 Phone and then to the very "flashable" HTC Fuze with Windows Mobile 6.5. I supported Windows Phone 7 through 10. But I can't help but feel exhausted from the "wait and see" position with Windows "Mobile." At work, we had someone order a Note 5 but decided it was too big and I got him a S6. Curious, I decided to give the Note 5 a try with as much of the Microsoft Ecosystem as I could (including Cortana)...5 days later, I am still using the Note 5 and my ICON sits aside (though loading latest build on it today). The Note 5 is currently my daily driver. Why? I feel more productive on it due to there being more work related and "convenience" apps. Social apps are so much faster and cleaner too. Stylus with OneNote is great to have so I don't always have to take my Surface Pro 3 or Venue 8 Pro with me for note taking. Camera is equal if not a little better than the ICON. Oh, and yes, I am a Verizon Customer (work) so my hope for a new flagship is in limbo right now.

I understand with Windows 10, Universal Apps and the new ecosystem, that phone may always be here just won't budget much in market share and apps. Project Islandwood and Astoria excited me...back in APRIL as we are in another "wait and see" mode. But hope is dwindling some.

This is not a stab at my beloved Windows Phone and Lumia ICON. If this whole Verizon/Lumia 950 debacle hadn't happened, I'd most likely be waiting on my 950xl with excitement and learning to get around the "apps" that I am finding functional. But it has been hard to stop "test driving" this Note 5 due to its superior (currently) performance and functionality.

 

[jmthomas1987]

There's actually good information that ms may be waiting for full production units on an rtm w10 mobile before it certifies on Verizon network. They are required to do by a third party and FCC rules mandate Verizon can't block once certified. So cdma band may be enabled either at launch or shortly after with firmware update.

That actually makes a lot of sense once I thought about it. Since Verizon is so dang difficult about pushing out updates, it would be in Microsoft's best interest to wait for a W10 RTM loaded phone to certify. That way VZ can't as easily hamstring it later on by not pushing out timely updates.

Till VZ gives up trying to cram their garbage VZ apps on every phone they sell, it will be an uphill battle. Every time I get a new VZ phone, first thing I do it uninstall/freeze every one of their apps. There are better, FREE apps out in the market to replace that garbage.

 

[Krystianpants]

That actually makes a lot of sense once I thought about it. Since Verizon is so dang difficult about pushing out updates, it would be in Microsoft's best interest to wait for a W10 RTM loaded phone to certify. That way VZ can't as easily hamstring it later on by not pushing out timely updates.

Till VZ gives up trying to cram their garbage VZ apps on every phone they sell, it will be an uphill battle. Every time I get a new VZ phone, first thing I do it uninstall/freeze every one of their apps. There are better, FREE apps out in the market to replace that garbage.

You will still get updates from MS if you buy the phone from MS and go on Verizon. It's just MS needs to certify the phones by a third party. Once this is done Verizon has to add the device codes and they can't block them. This was part of FCC mandate for their spectrum. And someone who has good info on Reddit says this is likely to happen once the phones are production with stable firmware and w10m is RTM. Again it would make a lot of sense. I don't think MS would release a phone for fans and then say "sorry fans can't use it".

 

[TechFreak1]

Nope, the world does not revolve around Verizon as much they probably want it to :grincry:.

 

[carlson03]

Nope, the world does not revolve around Verizon as much they probably want it to :grincry:.

While I agree, hopefully they can keep it up...I have AT&T, don't need VZW, never had an issue....wife loves her 1020!

 

[mayconvert]

As a Verizon user still holding onto his discontinued Lumia Icon, I definitely found it unfortunate that Verizon doesn't want to "play ball" and continue supporting WM10. As one of the largest carriers in the US, I think WM10 doesn't stand a chance if it can't get adoption on VZW. I hope they can make a deal, but things are looking pretty bleak at this time. The problem is, both users AND devs will have to switch to AT&T in order for WM10 to thrive and that's just wishing for a miracle.

So switch to AT&T. Tell Verizon you are leaving because they won't support WP 10 and the new 950/XL.
I have seen 50 post on this site saying they would leave Verizon to get the 950 / 950 XL.
Vote with your wallet and stop giving Verizon money.

 

[Skamath]

As a Verizon user still holding onto his discontinued Lumia Icon, I definitely found it unfortunate that Verizon doesn't want to "play ball" and continue supporting WM10. As one of the largest carriers in the US, I think WM10 doesn't stand a chance if it can't get adoption on VZW. I hope they can make a deal, but things are looking pretty bleak at this time. The problem is, both users AND devs will have to switch to AT&T in order for WM10 to thrive and that's just wishing for a miracle.

You guys (Verizon consumers) will have to do one of the two things.
1 Protest Loud and clear and demand Verizon do the right thing by giving the consumer choices.
2 Show them who is the Boss Who pays Verizon their wages incl the CEO and do a mass walkout to some other provider.

I am sure if this option 1 runs wild like Hulkamania you can tell Verizon watchyou gonna do when AT&T come for you BROTHERRR...

BTW I live down under in Aus and I don't think the carriers have much of a say here in consumers using unlocked phone. It seems a bit foolish to me that such controls exists with Service providers when their bread and butter comes from the ones who want the Service that they provide.

Can someone please help me understand the USA Mobile service providers way of working, rule, regulations and how it actually ends up working? So far just by reading here I know there are 4 Major Player not sure if there are some other micro players. Can anyone shed some light on this matter?

 

[Sedp23]

They don't support the phones they have now. It won't make a difference Verizon isn't the make or break of phones. I do think they need to be offered on more carriers run just att.

There are rumors Verizon is gettin the acer jade primo tho

 

[Steve Adams]

I think you're missing the point. Blackberry was popular primarily in north America, but it too is now a "has been". Being successful, no matter if it's in the U.S. or elsewhere, doesn't guarantee you'll remain successful. The point is that Symbian was at one point the most successful mobile OS in the world, without being relevant in the U.S. It's not its unpopularity in the U.S. that was Symbian's downfall however, but rather its inability to keep up with the big software companies, which was also Blackberry's undoing.

Being a Canadian, and following Canadian businesses, I can assure you that blackberry fell from grace not because of the inability to keep up, but the total lack of leadership at the critical time when smartphones were coming of age. The CEO Jimmy never had his eye on the ball, but rather had it on the puck. He was to busy trying to be a hero to waterloo area and try to get an NHL team (where he spent millions of dollars), fightintg the NHL to get a hockey team. He let blackberry just coast on what they had. By the time he lost the war with the NHL, blackberry was far behind, and he lost his position as CEO. If I was a shareholder at the time, I would have been loosing my mind. He was in total control of the company at the time as well. Therefore blackberry was doomed from that point on. I think that if they got rid of that nimrod as soon as he started on his NHL kick, Blackberry would be in a very different position right now. That being said, I was in Montreal last week, and there are LOTS of blackberry devices floating around there. The only ones with apple devices were Children, hipsters, and homeless people (maybe also hipsters, hard to tell the difference). The people doing business I would guess 80 percent of them were using BB. I saw a lot of Samsung, and even got glimpse of a few Nokia/Microsoft phones. Smart people there!

As for Version killing Windows Phone, that is like saying enterprise car rentals are going to kill off ford because they no longer use their vehicles in their rental fleet. That even sounds silly to say let alone put on paper.