HTC beat Nokia at it's own game.

[theefman]

It's nobody's wish,

Could have fooled me.

 

[brmiller1976]

Oh alrighty then.

I want Nokia to die. That's why I'm so upset about how they're blowing it. After all, if I wanted them to die, it would only make sense that I'm upset that they're screwing up so spectacularly.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[Winterfang]

I don't want Nokia to die. But I won't buy a phone I don't like out of "support", I buy the phone that suits me better.

 

[Mitlov]

I kept hearing about how GM was going to go kaput, but they're still here. Don't count Nokia out yet.

Nokia may need some sort of reorganization or buy-out, but I don't believe for a second that they're simply going to shut their doors. A company that makes products that people are interested in gets restructured, not shut down. LOTS of people, including lots of non-Windows-Phone people, are interested in the Lumia 920. And the 820 is a compelling option for those of us who won't end up with a flagship phone (Samsung has no midrange phone, and HTC's "midrange" 8S has the specs of a low-range phone despite its good looks).

 

[brmiller1976]

I kept hearing about how GM was going to go kaput, but they're still here.

I doubt the US government will be cutting a $74 billion check to Nokia to keep it going (which is the only reason GM is still around today)...

 

[DungMasterFang]

Nokia doesn't have a billion to spend on camera technology. Super LCD2 is arguable the best screen in the market and at that size the ppi should be nothing sort of mesmerizing. I wouldn't call Nokia for better screen yet.

Nokia had 11 billion dollars in cash as of last quarter... They also have spend more in R&D in the last decade than any tech company. Not just phone companies.

 

[DungMasterFang]

Nokia's getting licensing revenues from Microsoft for that map data, which likely fattens up those already large bailout payments that Redmond is sending to Espoo every quarter.

Care to elaborate on these large bailout payments?

 

[1jaxstate1]

LOL, did they really use GM as an example! Bwahahahahahaha

I doubt the US government will be cutting a $74 billion check to Nokia to keep it going (which is the only reason GM is still around today)...

 

[1jaxstate1]

Facts and logic are not welcomed around these here parts sir. **chews on straw**

Your refutation isn't based on fact, but on fandom.

You want Nokia to succeed. I understand. Believe it or not, I want them to succeed too.

They're not succeeding. They're failing on every count that matters.

They need to get moving NOW. Period. End of story. No more excuses. Flawless execution. Pricing. Availability. ASAP. Or they're done.

Pretending otherwise and screaming down people who observe it won't change that fact one iota.

Living in a pleasant fantasy that things will work out OK even as the ship goes down didn't work for Commodore in 1993. It didn't work for Palm in 2010. And it won't work for Nokia in 2012.

 

[stmav]

Yep, proving that phones have won awards and other facts aren't welcomed much at all.

 

[a5cent]

Too much FUD

@Se1fcr3ation (and all others mentioning bailouts or making baseless claims)

Keep in MIND Nokia was about to declare bankruptcy before MS saved them, so how do you Think Nokia did so much advertising? with Microsoft`s CASH!. and the marketing over the last 9month, they dint really have a choice unless they planed to Closed their doors.....

so no I didnt forget that Nokia is alive because of MS

Nokia was given MILLIONS of $$ from Microsoft witch allowed them to Market their phones more and to BUY exclusivity with Developers (fact)

No. None of those quotes are factual; none of them. Possibly, you are unhappy with Nokia because you’re ideologically opposed to bailout payments (I certainly am), but truth be told that is not what these payments are. This is the deal: Microsoft pays Nokia $250 million each quarter for an unspecified number of quarters. Per year this amounts to one billion. In return, Nokia agreed to the following:

a) Commit to developing, distributing and promoting exclusively WP devices without exception.
b) Grant Microsoft complete access to Nokia’s worldwide mapping data and API’s.

Both Microsoft and Nokia knew that WP was in for an uphill battle against iOS and Android. It was also clear that positioning WP would take a substantial amount of time, effort and investments in promoting the platform. So, asking Nokia to resist launching even a single Android device during that entire time obviously required some financial compensation (platform support payments). Furthermore, Bing Maps was utterly useless outside the U.S., so getting Nokia’s maps for that price (also worth billions), wasn’t a bad deal either. Had Microsoft gone it alone, assembling worldwide maps of similar quality would have been much more expensive, and Microsoft still wouldn’t be anywhere close to what Nokia Drive offers today.

Now, one billion a year in payments sounds like a lot, but Nokia can burn up to three times that amount in a single quarter. So, your notion that a billion dollars per year can save a company like Nokia is utterly ridiculous. You already backpedalled on your “Nokia was about to declare bankruptcy” statement, but that isn’t anywhere near good enough. Nokia currently has around 10 billion gross cash on hand, and their costly restructuring efforts are now winding down. Nokia’s current situation isn’t even half bad. The real problem is Nokia’s trajectory and the markets confidence (or lack thereof) in them being able to turn the ship around in time!

Truthfully, Nokia was nowhere close to Bankruptcy two years ago. Nokia’s balance sheet (2007 - 2011) should suffice to convince anyone of the ridiculousness of that statement, not to mention the silliness of Nokia being unable to pay for their own marketing efforts or exclusive apps. Sure, an extra billion makes that easier, but Nokia was far away from having to depend on it.

FYI: Being a MOD means nothing. aside from having to Filter your USELESS comments.

I don’t mind your harsh tone (for a moderator). I also don’t mind people tearing up Nokia. Some, like brmiller1976, actually raise very good negative points concerning Nokia (I see him as a father scolding his son, Nokia, for being lazy and bringing home a terrible report card… absolutely justified if you ask me). What I do mind is a moderator posting so much misinformation.

What I’ve refuted here is only the tip of the iceberg. Excluding matters of opinion, almost every statement you have made in this thread is (without exaggeration) simply false. I would prefer not to, but I can go back and refute every one of them if necessary. That is bad enough coming from any old Joe, but surely most would give more weight to the words of a “super moderator”. Based on the posts in this thread, that is clearly unjustified. Although “being a MOD means nothing”, I still think the title carries some authority and I believe it should. This unfortunate combination is what I am protesting with this post. I would ask you to exercise more restraint in voicing your opinions, and consider that none of them are as accurate as you imagine.

wow no wonder people get mad when you say bad things about Nokia.

I can’t know for sure, but I think the real reason you, Winterfang and Miller receive so much push back is much more profound. All of us have a soft spot for a fledgling, struggling mobile OS. At this point it is very uncertain if WP will be around for the long haul, but we all want to believe that WP can make it. While HTC and Samsung have released good devices, Nokia is the only company that has placed all its eggs in the WP basket. That implies that Nokia likes and believes in WP just as much as we do, and is willing to bet the farm on that belief. For many, that proves that Nokia is on our side; much more so than HTC and Samsung. So, criticizing Nokia equates to criticizing him with which we share our values, and most feel obliged to defend him for it.

 

[1jaxstate1]

How long can a company last with these types of losses. Does Nokia still sell telecommunications equipment.

Nokia: In Nokia's current financial situation why did the board elect to pay a dividend (Q1 2012)?
Nokia is hemorrhaging cash ($1.7B USD loss on $9.7B sales Q1 2012, losses for last 4 quarters), yet the board voted to pay a dividend of $0.26, or $972M USD (nearly 25% of their cash reserves).

 

[Mitlov]

I doubt the US government will be cutting a $74 billion check to Nokia to keep it going (which is the only reason GM is still around today)...

GM didn't have Microsoft backing.

 

[a5cent]

How long can a company last with these types of losses.

Most estimate between one and two years, but Nokia's CFO and CEO seem to think they have considerably more time.

Does Nokia still sell telecommunications equipment.

Yes, although Chinese competition has reduced their margins substantially.

In Nokia's current financial situation why did the board elect to pay a dividend (Q1 2012)?.

There is only one explanation. Nokia's CFO and CEO don't think their cash situation is that dire. I don't know what to make of it either though.

 

[1jaxstate1]

I use to work with a Nokia DSLAM years ago, nifty product.

Most estimate between one and two years, but Nokia's CFO and CEO seem to think they have considerably more time.

Yes, although Chinese competition has reduced their margins substantially.

There is only one explanation. Nokia's CFO and CEO don't think their cash situation is that dire. I don't know what to make of it either though.

 

[brmiller1976]

Does Samsung or HTC even have that kind of mindshare that Nokia has?

Depends on where you're asking the question. In India, certainly not. In the United States, most people know HTC and Samsung, and when you ask them about Nokia, they say "oh, I had one of those back in 2002... a little B&W phone with a Snake game on it."

 

[brmiller1976]

GM didn't have Microsoft backing.

To be fair, Microsoft is paying Nokia about $1 billion per year. In context, Nokia managed to lose half of that in a single quarter.

(And a billion a year from Microsoft to GM would have kept GM going another week, at most).

 

[Oldmajor]

At best all of these phones are pretty close in comparison which is a great thing for the platform. However, ever since switching over from my HTC Arrive to the Lumia 920, I have been very impressed by Nokia's support, exclusive apps, Nokia Apps, and their pushing of the platform by helping developers publish their first apps for free! Nokia has earned my trust in them as a manufacturer whereas my experience with the Samsung Epic 4G and the HTC Arrive didnt leave me with good feelings.

 

[brmiller1976]

Note again that "troll" = "anybody who does not believe that Nokia has executed flawlessly."

 

[1jaxstate1]

920 or 900?

At best all of these phones are pretty close in comparison which is a great thing for the platform. However, ever since switching over from my HTC Arrive to the Lumia 920, I have been very impressed by Nokia's support, exclusive apps, Nokia Apps, and their pushing of the platform by helping developers publish their first apps for free! Nokia has earned my trust in them as a manufacturer whereas my experience with the Samsung Epic 4G and the HTC Arrive didnt leave me with good feelings.