12-02-2015 11:33 PM
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  1. TK2011's Avatar
    Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.
    I don't understand what you are saying. You can buy an unlocked *Verizon* Windows Phone from another carrier???
    10-12-2015 02:22 PM
  2. oldpueblo's Avatar
    I don't understand what you are saying. You can buy an unlocked *Verizon* Windows Phone from another carrier???
    Verizon lost a court case some time ago that forced them to unlock all their devices that were "world devices", aka could take a GSM SIM for when you wanted to travel overseas (or move to AT&T). So of course they had to lock certain things like functional MMS to keep their phones from being bought by people to use on networks other than Verizon. That's Verizon. So yes, I can buy any Verizon phone that has GSM bands and immediately use it on AT&T, I just won't have MMS and some other quirks I don't recall. Now that's just being a **** carrier, basically they say you want this fancy new phone you have to switch to us to get it. Meanwhile everyone else just launches a phone on GSM for the entire world to use.
    10-12-2015 02:26 PM
  3. feereless's Avatar
    Counter-point, take an unlocked Verizon windows phone that is also sold on another GSM carrier (the HTC 8X for example and my experience) and try to get all the features like MMS working. You generally can't, Verizon locks that to only work on their service. Same chipset right? This is the kind of carrier we're talking about.
    that was before this law passed :P

    Which law is this? Sources, please. I have never heard of this before this thread.
    it falls under the "Unlocking Consumer Choice and Wireless Competition Act" which states that all fcc carriers must allow unlocked phones on their network.
    to_be_announced likes this.
    10-12-2015 02:28 PM
  4. MikeSo's Avatar
    that was before this law passed :P



    it falls under the "Unlocking Consumer Choice and Wireless Competition Act" which states that all fcc carriers must allow unlocked phones on their network.
    That law just states that consumers must be allowed to unlock their phones. It doesn't say that networks must allow unlocked phones. Is there another law you're thinking of? Or some minor provision in that law? If so, please point to that.

    EDIT: the law you cite even points out that it's up to the owner of the network to allow the phone. From the summary:

    Allows such circumvention (unlocking) to be initiated by the owner of such a device, by another person at the direction of the owner, or by a provider of a commercial mobile radio service or a commercial mobile data service at the direction of such owner or other person, solely in order to enable such owner or a family member of such owner to connect to a wireless telecommunications network, when such connection is authorized by the operator of such network.
    10-12-2015 02:32 PM
  5. TK2011's Avatar
    Verizon lost a court case some time ago that forced them to unlock all their devices that were "world devices", aka could take a GSM SIM for when you wanted to travel overseas (or move to AT&T). So of course they had to lock certain things like functional MMS to keep their phones from being bought by people to use on networks other than Verizon. That's Verizon. So yes, I can buy any Verizon phone that has GSM bands and immediately use it on AT&T, I just won't have MMS and some other quirks I don't recall. Now that's just being a **** carrier, basically they say you want this fancy new phone you have to switch to us to get it. Meanwhile everyone else just launches a phone on GSM for the entire world to use.
    Got it. But your earlier post is phrased in a confusing way - it's not clear where you bought that phone and used where.

    Anyway, the question people are more interested in is whether MS can sell "CDMA-unlocked" version of L950/XL from their stores that will work reliably on Verizon. Seems like it's an unanswered question.
    10-12-2015 02:35 PM
  6. feereless's Avatar
    That law just states that consumers must be allowed to unlock their phones. It doesn't say that networks must allow unlocked phones. Is there another law you're thinking of? Or some minor provision in that law? If so, please point to that.
    cant post links yet.. but here
    https:// www . govtrack. us/congress/bills/113/s517/summary#libraryofcongress

    take out the spaces
    10-12-2015 02:39 PM
  7. MikeSo's Avatar
    cant post links yet.. but here
    https:// www . govtrack. us/congress/bills/113/s517/summary#libraryofcongress

    take out the spaces
    Yes, see my previous edit to my post. The law doesn't say what you think it says. It doesn't force a network to allow all phones.
    10-12-2015 02:40 PM
  8. feereless's Avatar
    Yes, see my previous edit to my post. The law doesn't say what you think it says. It doesn't force a network to allow all phones.
    yes it does.. click on the summary tab...

    "The bill would allow consumers to use their mobile devices with any wireless carrier. It also expands the right to unlock devices from mobile phones to all wireless devices."
    10-12-2015 02:43 PM
  9. MikeSo's Avatar
    yes it does.. click on the summary tab...

    "The bill would allow consumers to use their mobile devices with any wireless carrier. It also expands the right to unlock devices from mobile phones to all wireless devices."
    Right. You're allowed to do this now, whereas before it was illegal to do it. It doesn't MANDATE the networks to allow your phone.
    10-12-2015 02:46 PM
  10. djarchow's Avatar
    I understand Microsoft's desire to narrow their focus. Selling fewer, but better models of phones makes sense. Targeting three segments of customers (value, business, and Windows fans) makes good sense too.

    What doesn't make sense to me, especially if Microsoft intends actually sell any of these phones, is excluding 65% of the US market and all of Canada from getting the 950. Not to mention that except for some unconfirmed rumors, the 950XL won't be sold by anyone in the US or Canada other than Microsoft. Yes, I know that you can buy the phones in a Microsoft store or online; but at least today, far more phones are sold by the carrier than in the phone manufacture's store or website. (eg. only 15% of iPhones are bought directly from Apple.)

    To me a better strategy would be to first try to repair the relationships that haven't been productive in the past so that you can make your products, even if a niche item available, to everyone that wants to buy them. If that doesn't work, then circumvent those carriers that don't want to play nice and use the capabilities in the hardware MS already paid for to allow those customers who do want to buy your phones to use them anywhere.
    10-12-2015 02:52 PM
  11. feereless's Avatar
    Right. You're allowed to do this now, whereas before it was illegal to do it. It doesn't MANDATE the networks to allow your phone.
    so i dug and dug. the only thing i can say is that the bill says that consumers are ALLOWED to use them with any carrier. i guess if you want to get down to the nitty gritty it depends on how good your lawyer is. you are correct that it doesnt necessarily mandate, but it is implied (which unfortunately is not valid in court).

    i did however see something about GSM carriers, but no mention of cdma... F*** you verizon lol
    MikeSo likes this.
    10-12-2015 02:58 PM
  12. MikeSo's Avatar
    so i dug and dug. the only thing i can say is that the bill says that consumers are ALLOWED to use them with any carrier. i guess if you want to get down to the nitty gritty it depends on how good your lawyer is. you are correct that it doesnt necessarily mandate, but it is implied (which unfortunately is not valid in court).

    i did however see something about GSM carriers, but no mention of cdma... F*** you verizon lol
    Yeah, unfortunately this bill is mostly useful for GSM carriers, since the GSM standard mandates that any compatible phone with a valid SIM is allowed on the network. The bill itself only prohibits carriers from keeping the phones locked down to the network, it doesn't force them to allow other phones. For GSM carriers, this is in practice the same thing, but not for Verizon. They can still choose which phones they authorize.
    10-12-2015 03:02 PM
  13. 920Walker's Avatar
    There are two ATT shops two Verizon shops and a Microsoft store in my local mall. I'm glad I won't have to pay my lawyer driving time when she helps me purchase my next god phone :p
    10-12-2015 03:02 PM
  14. TexasLabRat's Avatar
    I'll throw down the gauntlet to Microsoft and Verizon = ONCE Microsoft can show "1 MILLION pre-orders" then Verizon WILL change their minds!

    AND ... I do NOT mean 1 MILLION "consumers" ... I mean 1 MILLION "Enterprise direct purchase or BYOD influenced" Enterprise users!

    I DO BELIEVE that the 950XL "contains ALL of Band 13 and CDMA" which is currently "disabled in firmware"!

    Otherwise, WHY would Microsoft be selling "UNLOCKED dual sim versions" in their US stores?
    What's interesting to me is the FCC certification docs are still not posted. Once available they will tell us definitively what bands the phone is legally cleared to use in the U.S., firmware/hardware capabilities notwithstanding. Perhaps this is a sign that negotiations are still ongoing and MS is dragging its feet clerically to make the final filing until they are 100% sure of what the launch situation is going to be.

    Point being...the specs on the product page are subject to change (and are sometimes willfully inaccurate by omitting bands to placate business partners...(I remember a couple of phones that supported AWS even though their product pages did not list it.) but the FCC test/certification paperwork is pretty much set-in-stone at least for launch purposes. I'll keep a look out for RM-1116 docs and I'll post what I find if/when they make it to the FCC website.
    Last edited by TexasLabRat; 10-12-2015 at 03:53 PM.
    TK2011, libra89 and PepperdotNet like this.
    10-12-2015 03:36 PM
  15. DavidinCT's Avatar
    The 950xl physically supports Verizon, but has been programmed not to either at the discretion of Microsoft or Verizon (currently unknown). It IS possible for already-manufactured units to be updated to function on Verizon, assuming cooperation.
    I want PROOF of this... Not just because another phone uses it. A lot of people are saying this but, so it contains a CPU that supports CDMA but, how do you know for sure that a FIRMWARE will unlock it ?

    It's like when my HTC xv6750 (WM device) about FM radio, we looked it up, The hardware chipset supported it, the CPU supported it but, it was disabled on the motherboard, with no attenna cable to the headphone jack. There was threads of over 100 pages about this subject but, STILL, although the HARDWARE CPU AND CHIPSET fully supported it, it was disabled in firmware (thank you Verizon) and the connections were not there to use it.

    Just like CDMA support on the 950XL, sure the CPU could support it but, if the phone does not have the Attenna or other part of the chipset, enabling it via firmware will do nothing.

    I want facts on this, or I will call 100% BS, everyone can claim this but, no one at all, not even a hair of proof of it... and a Android device supports it IS NOT PROOF as all hardware is different and the chipset is different on the 950XL.

    If you 100% belive this, with no proof, then give me your CC info, I have a bridge to sell you...really nice and a really good deal..

    Again, No proof, I stand on my case, The 950XL does not support Verizon wireless, and this should be made a sticky and this thread closed...
    10-12-2015 03:47 PM
  16. TK2011's Avatar
    I want PROOF of this... Not just because another phone uses it. A lot of people are saying this but, so it contains a CPU that supports CDMA but, how do you know for sure that a FIRMWARE will unlock it ?

    It's like when my HTC xv6750 (WM device) about FM radio, we looked it up, The hardware chipset supported it, the CPU supported it but, it was disabled on the motherboard, with no attenna cable to the headphone jack. There was threads of over 100 pages about this subject but, STILL, although the HARDWARE CPU AND CHIPSET fully supported it, it was disabled in firmware (thank you Verizon) and the connections were not there to use it.

    Just like CDMA support on the 950XL, sure the CPU could support it but, if the phone does not have the Attenna or other part of the chipset, enabling it via firmware will do nothing.

    I want facts on this, or I will call 100% BS, everyone can claim this but, no one at all, not even a hair of proof of it... and a Android device supports it IS NOT PROOF as all hardware is different and the chipset is different on the 950XL.

    If you 100% belive this, with no proof, then give me your CC info, I have a bridge to sell you...really nice and a really good deal..

    Again, No proof, I stand on my case, The 950XL does not support Verizon wireless, and this should be made a sticky and this thread closed...
    You have no proof it doesn't have HW capability for CDMA either, do you? SD810 SOC does support CDMA (go look it up) so chances are Verizon support may be enabled via SW or FW update. Do we know for 100% certainty? No.

    MS said they will talk more about carrier availability soon so let's just wait and see.
    10-12-2015 04:06 PM
  17. oldpueblo's Avatar
    I want PROOF of this... Not just because another phone uses it. A lot of people are saying this but, so it contains a CPU that supports CDMA but, how do you know for sure that a FIRMWARE will unlock it ?

    It's like when my HTC xv6750 (WM device) about FM radio, we looked it up, The hardware chipset supported it, the CPU supported it but, it was disabled on the motherboard, with no attenna cable to the headphone jack. There was threads of over 100 pages about this subject but, STILL, although the HARDWARE CPU AND CHIPSET fully supported it, it was disabled in firmware (thank you Verizon) and the connections were not there to use it.

    Just like CDMA support on the 950XL, sure the CPU could support it but, if the phone does not have the Attenna or other part of the chipset, enabling it via firmware will do nothing.

    I want facts on this, or I will call 100% BS, everyone can claim this but, no one at all, not even a hair of proof of it... and a Android device supports it IS NOT PROOF as all hardware is different and the chipset is different on the 950XL.

    If you 100% belive this, with no proof, then give me your CC info, I have a bridge to sell you...really nice and a really good deal..

    Again, No proof, I stand on my case, The 950XL does not support Verizon wireless, and this should be made a sticky and this thread closed...
    Remember when Verizon cut down the RAM on the Touch Pro as well, and you had to get the AT&T/Sprint versions if you wanted a non-neutered device? Good times (not good times). :D

    "Verizon. Better Matters!" (we can't just leave **** alone)
    DavidinCT and libra89 like this.
    10-12-2015 04:17 PM
  18. feereless's Avatar
    verizon just sucks all around. upping unlim data cost by $20, running on decades old tech, not updating phones when they should...

    great company. id hate to be on vzw. thank god im on att
    10-12-2015 04:28 PM
  19. goodsit2's Avatar
    Okay, just to debunk the idea that people talking to MS chat saying that it would work on Verizon I called them myself. Originally, they said it would work on all networks because it is an unlocked phone, but I asked him how he/she knew this information he claimed it solely on the idea of it being "unlocked." I asked them if they had been given any information regarding carriers and he said none will be released to them until pre-orders are allowed which they have no clue to the date.

    In essence, there's no point to calling/chatting with verizon/msft because we all have the same set of information. When they get the info, we will be able to hunt it down ourselves. Otherwise we are just generating false hope.
    10-12-2015 04:31 PM
  20. DavidinCT's Avatar
    You have no proof it doesn't have HW capability for CDMA either, do you? SD810 SOC does support CDMA (go look it up) so chances are Verizon support may be enabled via SW or FW update. Do we know for 100% certainty? No..
    Er...Ok, sure the CPU supports it sure, No crap (almost any modern mobile CPU supports CDMA now days)...but, the rest of the phone might not. Do we know at all ? Even a little ? Even a hair ? Does anyone on this forum know ?No we don't and have no clue for 100%

    MS said they will talk more about carrier availability soon so let's just wait and see.
    I hope your not holding your breath.

    Microsoft CLEARLY said they have NO PLANS on working with Verizon..., this is stated in a bunch of places from some WELL KNOWN people in the Microsoft world. This alone puts a BIG CLEAR NO to me...

    Man, I cant believe we are going over this BS again....Anyone remember when the Lumia 900 came out, Verizon customers (including myself a little) were complaining to the hill, JUST LIKE THIS. and then the fantasies came in Oh, it supports it in the chipset(CPU)....

    Anyway about it.... If the Chipset and the PHONE supports CDMA, it does not matter AT ALL... then Microsoft disabled it for a reason and by releasing the phone with out the bands, that is IT. No one has EVER been able to hack a firmware (never mind a certificate protected firmware) to unlock a band. (IF I am wrong, them PROVE IT) Check through Android, iOS and even going back to Windows Mobile.

    Unless Verizon comes out and dumps CASH at Microsoft to get over their issue, OR gives up on some big things (like update control, etc) and we all know Verizon wont do that, THINK they are too big. Then this is Verizon, so this cool new phone would not even come out for 6 months, till Verizon screws it up some how.

    Right now, unless some magic press release comes soon, It's all just a guessing game, to sit here and say the 950XL fully supports Verizon, is a pipe dream. As it stands, WITH Microsofts support, No it does not. Period.

    Sure dream it up and you'll find yourself very disappointed later.

    Like I said, I got a bridge for sale, good deal, very large at a good price...

    I am also interested in this phone and would love it on Verizon but, I have seen this game way too many times to think that this will change in anyway. If you have to have this phone, it's very, very, very, very, very slim chance you will see it on Verizon...

    Okay, just to debunk the idea that people talking to MS chat saying that it would work on Verizon I called them myself. Originally, they said it would work on all networks because it is an unlocked phone, but I asked him how he/she knew this information he claimed it solely on the idea of it being "unlocked." I asked them if they had been given any information regarding carriers and he said none will be released to them until pre-orders are allowed which they have no clue to the date. .
    Go back a few pages, I did the same thing and asked I was told it DOES support Verizon Wireless, a CLEAR yes. So I questioned her about CDMA and after about 10 min on chat, I was told "sorry, I was wrong"/

    They are almost as bad as Verizon CS....Read through this whole thread, this has happened more than a few times...
    Last edited by DavidinCT; 10-12-2015 at 07:32 PM.
    libra89 likes this.
    10-12-2015 07:16 PM
  21. TK2011's Avatar
    DavidinCT, you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you sit back,relax a bit and talk less. We will know soon enough. No need to kill ourselves with speculations.
    aximtreo likes this.
    10-12-2015 07:34 PM
  22. dksf42's Avatar
    What's interesting to me is the FCC certification docs are still not posted. Once available they will tell us definitively what bands the phone is legally cleared to use in the U.S., firmware/hardware capabilities notwithstanding. Perhaps this is a sign that negotiations are still ongoing and MS is dragging its feet clerically to make the final filing until they are 100% sure of what the launch situation is going to be.

    Point being...the specs on the product page are subject to change (and are sometimes willfully inaccurate by omitting bands to placate business partners...(I remember a couple of phones that supported AWS even though their product pages did not list it.) but the FCC test/certification paperwork is pretty much set-in-stone at least for launch purposes. I'll keep a look out for RM-1116 docs and I'll post what I find if/when they make it to the FCC website.
    Wow = nice catch TexasLabRat ... "NO posted FCC cert docs YET" ??????????????
    TexasLabRat likes this.
    10-12-2015 07:42 PM
  23. DavidinCT's Avatar
    Verizon lost a court case some time ago that forced them to unlock all their devices that were "world devices", aka could take a GSM SIM for when you wanted to travel overseas (or move to AT&T)..
    Sort of, Verizon when they got the frequency for their 4G LTE network from the FCC, it was part of the agreement on them purchasing it(the LTE/SIM needed to be unlocked). If you look into CDMA phones, the 4G LTE part is unlocked but, the CDMA part is not (Sprint is the only other carrier in the US and they will not activate a Verizon phone so it's a non-issue).

    This was a small but, in the news court battle about 8-10 years ago (about, I forget the exact date)

    DavidinCT, you don't know what you are talking about. I suggest you sit back,relax a bit and talk less. We will know soon enough. No need to kill ourselves with speculations.
    Really ? It's you who does not have a clue here. People who don't know history are destined to repeat it. Same thing your doing now.

    This happened in the past, everyone got all crazy about it, just to be disappointed. The facts are the facts.

    As I said, I hope something does change here but, with Microsoft's statements, let's just say I believe there is a 95% chance that Verizon WONT have this phone.

    I do hope I am wrong...but, the sad thing is, I am pretty sure I am right...
    10-12-2015 07:43 PM
  24. TK2011's Avatar
    It happened in the past but your signature shows Verizon somehow had all the top tier WP phones MS offered more or less? :)
    Verizon may not get this phone at launch but chances are they will get it (or another version) a bit later. If you really can't sit tight a bit, you will just have to switch to ATT or TMO. Simple as that.
    10-12-2015 07:51 PM
  25. TK2011's Avatar
    *IF* Verizon do have a plan to carry this phone in the future, look for a rumor leak about upcoming Verizon W10M device when L950/XL is just about to go on sale. They do this all the time to prevent existing customers giving up on VZW and jump ship to ATT. It's like clockwork.
    10-12-2015 07:57 PM
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